Difference between Sunni & Wahabi and people who speak ill about Wahabis - Assim al hakeem
- Thread starter Omar del Sur
- Start date
"The Wahhabis “marched with big armies to the area of Ta’if... they lay siege to the Muslim area, subdued them, killing men, women and children. They looted the Muslims’ belongings & possessions. Only a few people escaped their barbarism.” ~ Fitnat al-Wahhabiyya, Dahlan [d.1886]
“These people [the Wahhabi group] are the group of Shaytan” ~ Maliki scholar, Imam Ahmad as-Sawi (d.1826).
“They [the Wahhabi movement] believe that only they are true Muslims, and those who differ from their creed are polytheists. Based on this, they consider the killing of Ahl as-Sunnah and their scholars as permissible”. ~ Hanafi Judge, Imam Muhammad ibn Abidin [d. 1836].
“[The Wahhabis] oppose Muslim Orthodoxy and the madhabs while leading the Ummah astray, declaring the blood & wealth of MUSLIMS halal for spilling and seizure. This group took filthy, dark doubts & used them to surround people.” ~ Hanbali, Dawud ibn Sulaiman Al-Khalidi [d.1881]
“Oh Ibn Abdul-Wahhab, I advise you, for the sake of Allah, to hold your tongue regarding the MUSLIMS…You have no right to excommunicate (takfir) the majority of the MUSLIMS while you are deviant from the majority of the Muslims.” ~ Imam Muhammad Ibn Sulayman al-Kurdi [d. 1780].
“We will speak about the kufr of what the wretched Najdi [Ibn Abdul Wahhab] said about Imam Abu Hanifa not being upon anything and refusing to follow the Imams.”
~ Imam Alawi al-Haddad (1801).
“Ibn ‘Abdul Wahhab has declared [Muslims] to be kafir and… their blood and wealth licit for spilling and seizure. This belief was… built upon their founder's ignorance, hatred and bad thoughts about the believers…
~ Hanbali Sage, Hasan ash-Shatti (d. 1858)
"[A] tiny cult that emerged out of Najd... limit themselves to the Book and Sunnah while they neither understand it in its forms defined previously, nor do any of them know the basic fundamental aspects of knowledge."
Hanbali sage, Imam Mustafa ibn Ahmad ash-Shatti [d. 1929]
“Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab and his followers are people of innovation because they contradict all of that which has been handed down.”
~ Hanbali Scholar & Judge, Muhammad Ibn Fairuz [d. 1801].
“Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab was shown to have reached the level of a false Prophet and a liar of the same capacity as Musailimah, Sajjah the false Prophetess, Tulayha & others. As for his father, he was a pious man.”
~ Imam Abdullah Ibn Dawud al-Basri [d.1810].
“Every Imam is required to push people away from this astray innovator [MIAW]. The ummah has documented the madhabs in the best way... What does this ignorant fool know about the Book & Sunnah?!”
~ Major authority of the Hanbalis of his time, Imam Muhammad as-Saffarini [d.1775].
"The Khawarij corrupted the meaning of the Book and the Sunnah... This can be witnessed now in a cult that appeared in Al-Hijaz by the name of the Wahhabis. They think they are upon something, but they are only liars."
~ Maliki scholar, Imam Ahmad as-Sawi [d.1826].
“If [MIAW] was unable to kill openly, he would send someone to assassinate him in their bed or in the marketplace at night, since he judged whoever contradicted him with takfir & legalised their killing.”
~ Ibn Humaid [d. 1878] OFFICIAL BIOGRAPHIC work on Hanbali scholars, p.680
Sulayman ibn Abdul Wahhab, MIAW’s brother, a major critic of the early Wahhabi movement. Sulayman wrote a significant refutation of his brother’s work, called The Divine Lightning in Refutation of the Wahhabis (al-Sawa‘iq al-Uluhiyya fi-l-Radd ‘ala al-Wahabiyya): The document stands as one of the earliest, if not the earliest, refutations of Wahhabism in Islamic history.
“These people [the Wahhabi group] are the group of Shaytan” ~ Maliki scholar, Imam Ahmad as-Sawi (d.1826).
“They [the Wahhabi movement] believe that only they are true Muslims, and those who differ from their creed are polytheists. Based on this, they consider the killing of Ahl as-Sunnah and their scholars as permissible”. ~ Hanafi Judge, Imam Muhammad ibn Abidin [d. 1836].
“[The Wahhabis] oppose Muslim Orthodoxy and the madhabs while leading the Ummah astray, declaring the blood & wealth of MUSLIMS halal for spilling and seizure. This group took filthy, dark doubts & used them to surround people.” ~ Hanbali, Dawud ibn Sulaiman Al-Khalidi [d.1881]
“Oh Ibn Abdul-Wahhab, I advise you, for the sake of Allah, to hold your tongue regarding the MUSLIMS…You have no right to excommunicate (takfir) the majority of the MUSLIMS while you are deviant from the majority of the Muslims.” ~ Imam Muhammad Ibn Sulayman al-Kurdi [d. 1780].
“We will speak about the kufr of what the wretched Najdi [Ibn Abdul Wahhab] said about Imam Abu Hanifa not being upon anything and refusing to follow the Imams.”
~ Imam Alawi al-Haddad (1801).
“Ibn ‘Abdul Wahhab has declared [Muslims] to be kafir and… their blood and wealth licit for spilling and seizure. This belief was… built upon their founder's ignorance, hatred and bad thoughts about the believers…
~ Hanbali Sage, Hasan ash-Shatti (d. 1858)
"[A] tiny cult that emerged out of Najd... limit themselves to the Book and Sunnah while they neither understand it in its forms defined previously, nor do any of them know the basic fundamental aspects of knowledge."
Hanbali sage, Imam Mustafa ibn Ahmad ash-Shatti [d. 1929]
“Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab and his followers are people of innovation because they contradict all of that which has been handed down.”
~ Hanbali Scholar & Judge, Muhammad Ibn Fairuz [d. 1801].
“Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab was shown to have reached the level of a false Prophet and a liar of the same capacity as Musailimah, Sajjah the false Prophetess, Tulayha & others. As for his father, he was a pious man.”
~ Imam Abdullah Ibn Dawud al-Basri [d.1810].
“Every Imam is required to push people away from this astray innovator [MIAW]. The ummah has documented the madhabs in the best way... What does this ignorant fool know about the Book & Sunnah?!”
~ Major authority of the Hanbalis of his time, Imam Muhammad as-Saffarini [d.1775].
"The Khawarij corrupted the meaning of the Book and the Sunnah... This can be witnessed now in a cult that appeared in Al-Hijaz by the name of the Wahhabis. They think they are upon something, but they are only liars."
~ Maliki scholar, Imam Ahmad as-Sawi [d.1826].
“If [MIAW] was unable to kill openly, he would send someone to assassinate him in their bed or in the marketplace at night, since he judged whoever contradicted him with takfir & legalised their killing.”
~ Ibn Humaid [d. 1878] OFFICIAL BIOGRAPHIC work on Hanbali scholars, p.680
Sulayman ibn Abdul Wahhab, MIAW’s brother, a major critic of the early Wahhabi movement. Sulayman wrote a significant refutation of his brother’s work, called The Divine Lightning in Refutation of the Wahhabis (al-Sawa‘iq al-Uluhiyya fi-l-Radd ‘ala al-Wahabiyya): The document stands as one of the earliest, if not the earliest, refutations of Wahhabism in Islamic history.
He continues -
And more -
Source: The Divine Lightning in Refutation of the Wahhabis (al-Sawa‘iq al-Uluhiyya fi-l-Radd ‘ala al-Wahabiyya
MIAW has been refuted by his brother (who’s a real scholar btw) in his work ‘divine lightening’ and countless others. No need to defend this Takfiri Khariji. MIAW is a Khawarij terrorist no different from the modern terrorists we see today. He’s not a scholar.
okay, so I'll take it as you can't refute Kitab At-Tawheed.... if you've even read it
now I haven't read this Divine Lightning book and I'm not going to lie about that....
but here is the article on Arabic Wikipedia about the book
ar.wikipedia.org
and I'm not great at Arabic... I am trying to learn Arabic but I am not fluent in Arabic or anything like that....
but if we take the beginning of the article on the Divine Lighting book and we run it through Google translate
here is what we get:
Divine Thunderbolts in Response to Wahhabism is a book written by Sulaiman bin Abdul Wahhab in which he responded to the ideas and suspicions of his brother Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab, in which he revealed that his father and sheikhs were speculating that he would be among the people of aberration and delusion, because they saw his words, actions and tendencies in many issues, And his contradiction with the imams of the religion and the consensus of Muslims, and his atonement of the believers, so he claimed that visiting the kindergarten of the Prophet, may God bless him and grant him peace, and invoking him and the prophets, saints and righteous people, and visiting their graves is shirk. And that the call of the Prophet when begging for him is shirk, and likewise the call of other prophets, saints and righteous people when begging for them is shirk. [1]
but here is the article on Arabic Wikipedia about the book
الصواعق الإلهية في الرد على الوهابية - ويكيبيديا
ar.wikipedia.org
and I'm not great at Arabic... I am trying to learn Arabic but I am not fluent in Arabic or anything like that....
but if we take the beginning of the article on the Divine Lighting book and we run it through Google translate
here is what we get:
Divine Thunderbolts in Response to Wahhabism is a book written by Sulaiman bin Abdul Wahhab in which he responded to the ideas and suspicions of his brother Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab, in which he revealed that his father and sheikhs were speculating that he would be among the people of aberration and delusion, because they saw his words, actions and tendencies in many issues, And his contradiction with the imams of the religion and the consensus of Muslims, and his atonement of the believers, so he claimed that visiting the kindergarten of the Prophet, may God bless him and grant him peace, and invoking him and the prophets, saints and righteous people, and visiting their graves is shirk. And that the call of the Prophet when begging for him is shirk, and likewise the call of other prophets, saints and righteous people when begging for them is shirk. [1]
^that is the alleged refutation... apparently the author had a problem with not invoking saints
@Omar del Sur
You ask the doctors for help, does that mean you’re doing shirk? No, likewise help ultimately comes from Allah and we make dua to Allah only. There’s something called Tawwasul, seeking intersession through the Prophet ﷺ which is permissible according to the four Madhabs and the scholars unanimously agreed. Imam Ahmed, Imam Nawawi, Ibn Hajar and great scholars throughout Islamic history have done this, are you going to accuse them of shirk?
You ask the doctors for help, does that mean you’re doing shirk? No, likewise help ultimately comes from Allah and we make dua to Allah only. There’s something called Tawwasul, seeking intersession through the Prophet ﷺ which is permissible according to the four Madhabs and the scholars unanimously agreed. Imam Ahmed, Imam Nawawi, Ibn Hajar and great scholars throughout Islamic history have done this, are you going to accuse them of shirk?
I think I'd be better off waiting for yawmulkiyamah than waiting for you Sufis to refute Kitab at-Tawheed. I think yawmulkiyamah will come first.
That’s easy actually. Plenty of brothers have exposed this Khariji as an Ignorant fraud who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Refutation of wahabism(Lord of shirk)
LORD OF SHIRK Lord of Shirk Mu-hammed bin Abdul Wahab Najdi at-Tamimi Attributed Shirk towards Adam (AS) in order to prove his perverted tawhid. He said: رواه ابن أبي حاتم. وله بسند صحيح عن قتادة ق…
islamtreasure.wordpress.com
Also you didn’t answer my question, MIAW considered those who practice Tawwasul to be Mushriks outside the fold of Islam (the factors in which Wahhabis claim nullify a person’s Islam p. 308)
The pious predecessors all did Tawwasul, does that make them Mushriks outside the fold of Islam?
The more Muslim groups keep pushing that horn of satan MIAW as an “Islamic” authority, the more Takfir and killings were going to see.
Muzaffer
𝕮𝖔𝖒𝖗𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕲𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖗𝖆𝖑
yes a person who goes to graves and asks the dead for guidance or money is mushrik infidelThat’s easy actually. Plenty of brothers have exposed this Khariji as an Ignorant fraud who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Refutation of wahabism(Lord of shirk)
LORD OF SHIRK Lord of Shirk Mu-hammed bin Abdul Wahab Najdi at-Tamimi Attributed Shirk towards Adam (AS) in order to prove his perverted tawhid. He said: رواه ابن أبي حاتم. وله بسند صحيح عن قتادة ق…
Also you didn’t answer my question, MIAW considered those who practice Tawwasul to be Mushriks outside the fold of Islam (the factors in which Wahhabis claim nullify a person’s Islam p. 308)
The pious predecessors all did Tawwasul, does that make them Mushriks outside the fold of Islam?
The more Muslim groups keep pushing that horn of satan MIAW as an “Islamic” authority, the more Takfir and killings were going to see.
and when did sahaba did then?
Muzaffer
𝕮𝖔𝖒𝖗𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕲𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖗𝖆𝖑
hey, why do you have al-Qassam front picture isn't al-Qassam Salafis and Wahabis,That’s easy actually. Plenty of brothers have exposed this Khariji as an Ignorant fraud who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Refutation of wahabism(Lord of shirk)
LORD OF SHIRK Lord of Shirk Mu-hammed bin Abdul Wahab Najdi at-Tamimi Attributed Shirk towards Adam (AS) in order to prove his perverted tawhid. He said: رواه ابن أبي حاتم. وله بسند صحيح عن قتادة ق…
Also you didn’t answer my question, MIAW considered those who practice Tawwasul to be Mushriks outside the fold of Islam (the factors in which Wahhabis claim nullify a person’s Islam p. 308)
The pious predecessors all did Tawwasul, does that make them Mushriks outside the fold of Islam?
The more Muslim groups keep pushing that horn of satan MIAW as an “Islamic” authority, the more Takfir and killings were going to see.
Muzaffer
𝕮𝖔𝖒𝖗𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕲𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖗𝖆𝖑
oh, do you know what did your so-called ottoman caliph did to Dir'iyah?That’s easy actually. Plenty of brothers have exposed this Khariji as an Ignorant fraud who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Refutation of wahabism(Lord of shirk)
LORD OF SHIRK Lord of Shirk Mu-hammed bin Abdul Wahab Najdi at-Tamimi Attributed Shirk towards Adam (AS) in order to prove his perverted tawhid. He said: رواه ابن أبي حاتم. وله بسند صحيح عن قتادة ق…
Also you didn’t answer my question, MIAW considered those who practice Tawwasul to be Mushriks outside the fold of Islam (the factors in which Wahhabis claim nullify a person’s Islam p. 308)
The pious predecessors all did Tawwasul, does that make them Mushriks outside the fold of Islam?
The more Muslim groups keep pushing that horn of satan MIAW as an “Islamic” authority, the more Takfir and killings were going to see.
he sent Muhammed Ali with his mercenaries and start a massacre and he burned mosques in nejd.
and Subhan Allah he is the same man who kicks the ass of the ottoman and chase them to Constantinople and took Egypt from them and the ottoman whole navy joins him against the so-called caliphate of ottomans.
That’s easy actually. Plenty of brothers have exposed this Khariji as an Ignorant fraud who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Refutation of wahabism(Lord of shirk)
LORD OF SHIRK Lord of Shirk Mu-hammed bin Abdul Wahab Najdi at-Tamimi Attributed Shirk towards Adam (AS) in order to prove his perverted tawhid. He said: رواه ابن أبي حاتم. وله بسند صحيح عن قتادة ق…
Also you didn’t answer my question, MIAW considered those who practice Tawwasul to be Mushriks outside the fold of Islam (the factors in which Wahhabis claim nullify a person’s Islam p. 308)
The pious predecessors all did Tawwasul, does that make them Mushriks outside the fold of Islam?
The more Muslim groups keep pushing that horn of satan MIAW as an “Islamic” authority, the more Takfir and killings were going to see.
Yes, one of the hadith may have been weak. It may mean there is a weak hadith. That Barelvi website makes this huge deal about it. The whole book isn't based on that hadith. It's just a hadith mentioned in one of the chapters. The scholars are not infallible.
You're accusing the whole ummah and all four Madhabs of being "Mushriks." Tawwasul is legitimate according to the four madhabs and the 3 pious generations.
- The Hadith of the blind man:
عن عثمان بن حنيف ، أن رجلا ضرير البصر أتى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال : ادع الله أن يعافيني ، قال : " إن شئت دعوت وإن شئت صبرت فهو خير لك " ، قال : فادعه ، قال : فأمره أن يتوضأ فيحسن وضوءه ويدعو بهذا الدعاء : " اللهم إني أسألك وأتوجه إليك بنبيك ، محمد نبي الرحمة ، إني توجهت بك إلى ربي في حاجتي هذه لتقضى لي ، اللهم فشفعه في
From Uthman bin Hunayf [who narrated] that a blind man came to the Prophet ﷺ - and said: “Supplicate to Allah to cure me.” [The Prophet ﷺ] said, “If you wish I will supplicate [for you] and if you wish you may be patient and that will be better for you.” He said, “Supplicate to Him.” [The narrator] said, “So the Prophet instructed him to make ablution (wudhu`), perfect his ablution and then supplicate with this prayer:
‘O Allah, I ask You and approach You through Your Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. [O Muhammad,] I approach my Lord through you in this need of mine, that it be fulfilled. O Allah, grant him intercession for me’”.
Source: Jami' al-Tirmidhi (and HERE also) and Imam al-Tirmidhi (d. 279 AH) himself mentioned that it's an authentic narration, but thought that this is the only chain available, while there is also another chain for it.
The Ottomans are not perfect and nobody condones their faults but they were a legitimate Islamic Khilafah. They fought the Khawarij Wahhabis and defeated them, May Allah reward the Ottomans for killing the Khawarij. The Wahhabis were massacring and violently raiding everyone in the Arabian peninsula, the Ottomans had to do what needed to be done, they defeated and destroyed their Khawarij state.
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