Do you believe alshabab is kaafir group?

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

I believe 100% that alshabab is apostate/kaafir group. It is more recommended to fight them. They are the worst creation in this century.

 

[bluebird]

most sheikhs consider khawarij as deviants not apostates, Ali (ra) said when he was asked if they were disbelievers that they were deviated, but not kuffar. I believe the same

 

[The_Cosmos]

I think it's essential to first actually understand what Khawarij actually are.

The Khawarij (Arabic: الخوارج‎‎, al-Khawārij "the Outsiders", singular خارجي, khārijiyy) or the ash-Shurah(Arabic: الشراة‎, translit. ash-Shurāh‎ "the Exchangers") are members of a group that appeared in the first century of Islam during the First Fitna, the crisis of leadership after the death of Muhammad.[1] It broke into revolt against the authority of the RashidunCaliph Ali after he agreed to arbitration with his rival, Muawiyah I, to decide the succession to the Caliphate following the Battle of Siffin (657).[2] A Khariji later assassinated Ali, and for hundreds of years, the Khawarij were a source of insurrection against the Caliphate.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khawarij

As for them being Kaafir? I think it's best to understand that, whilst I'm not a Muslim myself, one of the things that made them deviants from Islam was their willingness to denounce people as non Muslims. (I studied Islam when I was a Muslim).

Also, I do very much believe that groups like Isis and Al Shabab are very much Islamic. The average Muslim doesn't understand Islam in depth and thus it's very simple for them to denounce people they can't defend as kaafirs. These people conduct in the unadulterated version of Islam. They stone adulterous people (mostly women), tax non Muslims, kill gays, kill apostates, amputate thieves and so on. Simply put, there more Islamic then you actually think.

 

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

most sheikhs consider khawarij as deviants not apostates, Ali (ra) said when he was asked if they were disbelievers that they were deviated, but not kuffar. I believe the same

I beg my difference with Ali(r.a).
Hadith says they leave islam

 

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

I think it's essential to first actually understand what Khawarij actually are.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khawarij

As for them being Kaafir? I think it's best to understand that, whilst I'm not a Muslim myself, one of the things that made them deviants from Islam was their willingness to denounce people as non Muslims. (I studied Islam when I was a Muslim).

Also, I do very much believe that groups like Isis and Al Shabab are very much Islamic. The average Muslim doesn't understand Islam in depth and thus it's very simple for them to denounce people they can't defend as kaafirs. These people conduct in the unadulterated version of Islam. They stone adulterous people (mostly women), tax non Muslims, kill gays, kill apostates, amputate thieves and so on. Simply put, there more Islamic then you actually think.

Hi servant of Johnson

 

[Young Popeye]

Yes and any who believes them to be muslim is also a kafir.

 

[Inactive]

Only Shia and nondenominational Muslims are real Muslims

 

[bluebird]

I beg my difference with Ali(r.a).
Hadith says they leave islam

It says they leave Islam doesn't say they aren't Muslim. Extremists are likely to leave the Diin because of their hardened hearts.

Why is there no third option on your poll

 

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

Yes and any who believes them to be muslim is also a kafir.

Allahu akbar
This is the truth

 

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

It says they leave Islam doesn't say they aren't Muslim. Extremists are likely to leave the Diin because of their hardened hearts.

Why is there no third option on your poll

Thanks for agreeing that they left islam

 

[McLovin]

Hi servant of Johnson

Are you interested in the truth or do you only want to hear what supports your obvious confirmation bias?

 

[Mudug-Madman]

Also, I do very much believe that groups like Isis and Al Shabab are very much Islamic.

 

[The_Cosmos]

They carry out the Sharia to the fullest extent. Slavery, Adultery laws, Thievery laws, Jizya tax and so on. All these things are sanctioned in Islam and all are carried out by these supposedly unislamic groups.

Islam isn't this peaceful religion Muslims love to make it out to be, in fact, most Muslims are completely oblivious to what Islam actually intails. They're born to it and that's that. Same with every religious group though.

Hi servant of Johnson

These people are doing what Islam demands them to do.

Did you know that following any laws beside those instructed by Allah, makes one a Kaffir? It's right there in the Quran. Muslim nations today are forced to do what the world tells them to do (unless your a rich gulf state of course).

 

[Mudug-Madman]

They carry out the Sharia to the fullest extent. Slavery, Adultery laws, Thievery laws, Jizya tax and so on. All these things are sanctioned in Islam and all are carried out by these supposedly unislamic groups.

Islam isn't this peaceful religion Muslims love to make it out to be, in fact, most Muslims are completely oblivious to what Islam actually intails. They're born to it and that's that. Same with every religious group though.

No they don't. Tell me where extortion rackets are mentioned in the Sharia? Stealing of private property? Indiscriminate attacks on innocent civilians? Slaughtering of religious minorities? Stealing organs? Forcible marriage? Rape? The list of crimes committed by these groups is long and shocking. For you to claim that they're very much Islamic only shows your ridiculous bias.

 

[Young Popeye]

They carry out the Sharia to the fullest extent. Slavery, Adultery laws, Thievery laws, Jizya tax and so on. All these things are sanctioned in Islam and all are carried out by these supposedly unislamic groups.

Islam isn't this peaceful religion Muslims love to make it out to be, in fact, most Muslims are completely oblivious to what Islam actually intails. They're born to it and that's that. Same with every religious group though.



These people are doing what Islam demands them to do.

Did you know that following any laws beside those instructed by Allah, makes one a Kaffir? It's right there in the Quran. Muslim nations today are forced to do what the world tells them to do (unless your a rich gulf state of course).

You cant wake up one day and decide to implement sharia You need a khalifa to carry out those laws. Praying 5 times a day and doing charity alone does not make you Muslim without Islamic belief. Rich gulf states may be doing sharia but they are still wahhabi kufar, and soon the oil money will run out. Your mistaking the religion for some school assignment, it doesnt work like that. If you believe God sits on a throne like a Wahhabi then your a kafir. If you follow the apostate scholar Ibn Taymiyyah your not muslim. All of these terrorist groups are following ibn taymiyyah who was rejected by muslims

 

[The_Cosmos]

No they don't. Tell me where extortion rackets are mentioned in the Sharia? Stealing of private property? Indiscriminate attacks on innocent civilians? Slaughtering of religious minorities? Stealing organs? Forcible marriage? Rape? The list of crimes committed by these groups is long and shocking. For you to claim that they're very much Islamic only shows your ridiculous bias.

Listen, I'm simply comparing much of what they implement and what the Sharia actually states. For example, killing apostates, killing gay people, killing blasphemers (many things make you a blasphemer not just insulting Islamic tenants), amputating thieves, not allowing women to leave their homes without muhrims, Jizya and many more. All these things are prescribed within the Sharia and thus it is dishonest of you to not even acknowledge them. I'm not saying they don't do things that are outside of Islamic beliefs but I am saying that they do earn the right to be called Muslims. Islam is not innocent.

You cant wake up one day and decide to implement sharia You need a khalifa to carry out those laws. Praying 5 times a day and doing charity alone does not make you Muslim without Islamic belief. Rich gulf states may be doing sharia but they are still wahhabi kufar, and soon the oil money will run out. Your mistaking the religion for some school assignment, it doesnt work like that. If you believe God sits on a throne like a Wahhabi then your a kafir. If you follow the apostate scholar Ibn Taymiyyah your not muslim. All of these terrorist groups are following ibn taymiyyah who was rejected by muslims

I'm sorry but how was the caliphate implemented? Was it through some sort of democracy or some shit?! The caliphate was founded through blood and steel and that is what these people do. You might argue that they kill Muslims, the sahabas themselves murdered each other like animals over the issue of succession. That's hardly an argument.

As for the gulf, you do know that it is against the teachings of Islam to denounce those you don't like as kaffirs? That was one of the things that Ali denounced the Khawarij for.

Also, denouncing Ibn Taymiyya as an apostate shows how little you know about Islam. He was a member of the Hanbali Madhab which is one of the 4 schools of though. He is actually very popular amongst Muslim scholars.

Moreover, God does sit on a throne and this is demonstrated within the teachings of the Quran. The Throne is mentioned 25 times in the Quran. It was also based on the consensus of the classical scholars.

 

[Lucifer]

Listen, I'm simply comparing much of what they implement and what the Sharia actually states. For example, killing apostates, killing gay people, killing blasphemers (many things make you a blasphemer not just insulting Islamic tenants), amputating thieves, not allowing women to leave their homes without muhrims, Jizya and many more. All these things are prescribed within the Sharia and thus it is dishonest of you to not even acknowledge them. I'm not saying they don't do things that are outside of Islamic beliefs but I am saying that they do earn the right to be called Muslims. Islam is not innocent.



I'm sorry but how was the caliphate implemented? Was it through some sort of democracy or some shit?! The caliphate was founded through blood and steel and that is what these people do. You might argue that they kill Muslims, the sahabas themselves murdered each other like animals over the issue of succession. That's hardly an argument.

As for the gulf, you do know that it is against the teachings of Islam to denounce those you don't like as kaffirs? That was one of the things that Ali denounced the Khawarij for.

Also, denouncing Ibn Taymiyya as an apostate shows how little you know about Islam. He was a member of the Hanbali Madhab which is one of the 4 schools of though. He is actually very popular amongst Muslim scholars.

Moreover, God does sit on a throne and this is demonstrated within the teachings of the Quran. The Throne is mentioned 25 times in the Quran. It was also based on the consensus of the classical scholars.

No true Scots man fallacy

 

[Young Popeye]

Listen, I'm simply comparing much of what they implement and what the Sharia actually states. For example, killing apostates, killing gay people, killing blasphemers (many things make you a blasphemer not just insulting Islamic tenants), amputating thieves, not allowing women to leave their homes without muhrims, Jizya and many more. All these things are prescribed within the Sharia and thus it is dishonest of you to not even acknowledge them. I'm not saying they don't do things that are outside of Islamic beliefs but I am saying that they do earn the right to be called Muslims. Islam is not innocent.



I'm sorry but how was the caliphate implemented? Was it through some sort of democracy or some shit?! The caliphate was founded through blood and steel and that is what these people do. You might argue that they kill Muslims, the sahabas themselves murdered each other like animals over the issue of succession. That's hardly an argument.

As for the gulf, you do know that it is against the teachings of Islam to denounce those you don't like as kaffirs? That was one of the things that Ali denounced the Khawarij for.

Also, denouncing Ibn Taymiyya as an apostate shows how little you know about Islam. He was a member of the Hanbali Madhab which is one of the 4 schools of though. He is actually very popular amongst Muslim scholars.

Moreover, God does sit on a throne and this is demonstrated within the teachings of the Quran. The Throne is mentioned 25 times in the Quran. It was also based on the consensus of the classical scholars.

It has nothing to do with me liking alshabab Wahhabis, I told you that they have kufr beliefs (beliefs of ibn taymiyyah). Ash'ari position is clear that God exists without a place. You dont know anything about Islam except through Saudi Wahhabi lenses. You claiming that God sits on a throne like a human being, shows your lack of knowledge of the religion, hence taking the quran/hadith literally can make one non muslim. Ibn taymiyyah was declared a kafir by the Sunni establishment in the 16th century. His work is being revived by al shabab Wahhabis, he is not part of the classical scholars, he is a kafir. Ibn Taymiyyah can claim to follow Hanbali but he does not, as pointed out by various scholars see here http://www.correctislamicfaith.com/ibntaymiyyasbeliefs.htm this is why even egypt banned ibn taymiyyah/wahabi books http://www.doamuslims.org/?p=3861
as well as jordan because he is isis's main shaykh https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2015/6/10/jordan-under-pressure-to-ban-ibn-taymiyyahs-books