Dr Osman Diagnosis On Somalia

[DR OSMAN]

I really don't think their is much hope for Somalia, we keep blaming the leaders but if that is the problem why is it we blame the next leader and the cycle continues? It's surely not the leaders that are the problem, if every leader is receiving the same treatment!!! There is something fundamentally flawed in our system and we need to pin-point what it is. I'll keep looking but there are some obvious things I already see. The first fundamental one is values, in America they actually do have some set values enshrined in their constitution which is superior to race, religion, politics, or any other dividing factor. They make clear distinctions that you can hold and vote for what u want but noone can touch that piece of paper or interfere with their values.

For example if you touch the constitution or bill of rights, it don't matter who does it or if you love him or not, all Americans will pick up their guns and fight. It doesn't matter what race, liberal or conservative, gay or not, christian or atheist, it is fundamentally superior too all dividing factors. That isn't present in our system nor in any African or Middle eastern society.

We have no defined values that we unite on, we depend on who the leader is, personal interests, politics, money agendas, or his tribe or even in the mid-east his sect or even gender for goodness sakes. All these things tend to divide people it doesn't unite them at all. So what are Somali values as this needs to be the law and protected? It's pointless having democracies and elections because democracies don't unite people, it polarizes them into parties and sides, it's not what kept the americans stable, it was their constitution and the values it promotes that kept them stable.

If we don't identify our real values which must come from our culture, we are potentially screwed and constantly going to build a house that will have holes in it or collapse and can even lead to the govt not operating efficiently and effectively as it rots from the inside through corruption.

We waste to much time on what sort of system we want, elections, and crap that will never unite people at all as it's polarizing, we need to focus on what values will under-pin it and hold it up strong and ensure we respect the system. People don't respect the system if the values are not real or just on paper and not enforced.

 

[Cotton Eyed Joe]

What values do we lack?

 

[DR OSMAN]

What values do we lack?

Values are what we will make u and me come out together in the streets hand in hand and die together for? It's clearly not Somali nationalism, as that was tried and tested. It's clearly not tribe as we don't share tribe. It's clearly not religion as we can hold different views of religion and witness how fractured they are in Somalia in so many various groups. It's surely not politics or parties, as we can hold different political views, it's surely not elections either as only one person will win and his supporters come out not everyone together.

If we don't know what makes me and u come out and hand in hand or what we are prepared to die for, why are we even in a country together or wasting our time building a govt because it will never unite us but continue to fracture us?

 

[Sleepy Hollow]

The saying "your only as strong as your weakest link" is very apt in Somalia, because the people are distrustful along clan lines meaning a government must be as impartial as possible. This means giving everyone in Somalia equal rights and protections meaning the minority clans, the somali-bantus and the reer xamars must be equally protected by a government because not doing so invites corruption and nepotism. If we can treat those people as a whole, with respect and truly uphold Western values (honestly lets be real they have the best values in known history) then we can begin seeing beyond qabil lines and having tentative trust in strong institutions which would have not only vertical accountability (being held accountable to the people by democracy) but horizontal accountability (extremely strong checks and balances) to truly heal the people. Honestly though there is so much pain, anger and distrust that any national reconciliation will be fragile and prone to outside interference but it will be critical at having a true government of the people.

 

[RasCanjero-]

Somalis aren't lacking much compared to other African countries.

It's just that we made too many enemies in the past century and our internal factions are too strong.

Only way out is if there was a dominant faction that suppressed everyone else.

Would be difficult to pull off with foreign interest ensuring a constant stalemate.

 

[Ahmed Alawi]

Somalia is suffering from these things:
- Overpopulation / High fertility rate
- Terrorism (Al-Shabaab)
- Seceding's and Antonimois regions (SL/PL)
- 73% of population in poverty
- Lowest GDP in Africa, 4th lowest in the world
- Most corrupt country in the world
- 62.2% of the population can't read or write
- Terrible education system
- Life expectancy very low
- Bad Health care

It'll take 4-5 decades to fix this this mess, we'll probably all be dead by then

 

[Apollo]

Somalia is suffering from these things:
- Overpopulation / High fertility rate
- Terrorism (Al-Shabaab)
- Seceding's and Antonimois regions (SL/PL)
- 73% of population in poverty
- Lowest GDP in Africa, 4th lowest in the world
- Most corrupt country in the world
- 62.2% of the population can't read or write
- Terrible education system
- Life expectancy very low
- Bad Health care

It'll take 4-5 decades to fix this this mess, we'll probably all be dead by then

Add to that:

- Arid land
- 99% Islam
- Tribalism
- Slow Ethnic displacement

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Ahmed Alawi @Amun Those are mere side-effects, it's like when someone has the flu, your talking about the watery eyes, the blocked nose, the fever, and all sort of side-effects, we can't cure side-effects, we need to actually find a cure to what's causing it in the first place.

The simple thing that I've noticed is we don't have some shared value that supersedes our divisions. If we had shared values, we could then use that basically tame our divisions be it politics, tribe, religion, etc and not rely on those dividing factors to be our very system as it doesn't create a united people that, but a fractured one which can lead to those side-effects you mentioned and much worse.

Being democratic is only a system, it's not INTENDED to unite people, it's in-fact divides people because politics is a divisive issue, you won't find one person having the same political view as someone else, hence basing our whole government around a system that is going to divide us is rubbish.

We need strong values but values that are SHARED across all of us, the thing that matters to us the most basically need to be put on the table and that needs protecting to the core, the system is just how to get the job done, it's not what will unite us and why most democracies outside the west are basically useless in my opinion.

If we are going to craft a system that will actually survive, let's stop this copy cat shit that we do from the west and do it properly, because noone is coming to our country if we don't do this RIGHT, they want assurance it WORKS and they get that by LOOKING AT YOUR BEHAVIORS, they won't come to some paper based democracy, people are not stupid.

Do this right guys or your always going to remain a 3rd world cesspool. You think by going democracy the world is going to all of a sudden open it's arm to you, they will laugh at you and see how fake it is in the ground and realise your too damn lazy to even think about what can work for your people.

No-one cares or should care if you have a kingdom, theocracy, one party state like china or whatever variation of systems exist because people work with countries with varied systems because it ACTUALLY WORKS, because a system is just how the govt conduct it's activities for the people, it's not what unites people and keep them from killing each other, elections don't unite people either it creates a winner and loser, you won't come out hand in hand with elections lol, it doesn't happen anywhere in the world because it's not their REAL values elections.

Honestly we need to do this right, not half asked or a pathetic attempt. Now some common human values are freedom, equality, justice, how that translates into Somali culture will need to seen from the culture especially rural ones as that still holds sway over the people where-ever they go in Somalia or the world.

Freedom is basically a god given right and once missing will lead to conflict which is inevitable as proven through-out history, Equality is also critical for people as they want equal rights for opportunities irrespective of social class, race, religion, political views, etc. Justice is paramount or the rule of law when those values freedom-equality are breached some-how.

This is pretty general values across all humanity not just Somalia but what are other critical things that need to be taken into consideration in Somalia and is critical for them in terms of values? because once we know these, this is now the most important piece of law in the land and everything else plays second fiddle to it and all our efforts must go into securing these values and setting a rigid system to enforce it and protect it, as it can create a war if breached. Now we can develop our system with those values basically holding in place.

The system can be whatever we want, Islamic state, Democracy, Dictatorship, Somali unique traditional system(which I prefer), Commy, One party state, Kingdom even. Do you honestly think that democracy is the only system that was successful in history? many empires thrived that weren't democratic such as pharoahs, indians, chinese, and caliphates and I bet you the reason was they SECURED the system with some sort of CORE value that the people respected at that time, hence if the values are protected the system is just pretty just artificial dressing and not really that important.

In all honesty, without REAL values we are wasting our time because the system we employ must protect it and enforce it at all times, so what tribe, party, dictator, islamic state is in place is irrelevant to the people now as the values isn't being tampered with, and the system now is basically just a way of delivering services nothing more to the people and they can freely argue all day but won't care because anyone who comes will be bound by it.

How we enforce it will be interesting, Americans use guns the second amendment. We need to enforce it a bit differently, some sort of mighty tribal council.

 

[DR OSMAN]

We need a system similar to Iran where ayatollah is separate and the real power and the govt is just delivering his agendas. We need a totally separate tribal council from the govt who has the military and money and the govt seeks approvals from, this is the REAL deal part of enforcement and they need a mighty document that isn't a joke or played around with. We just want a front facing govt but the machine is separated.

This council needs to assess presidents and select the most appropriate and maybe use some rotating tribal thing, but it won't matter as he just executing what's given to him by this mighty ass council who guides him on what needs to be done in his 4 year mandate. This council will then scan the environment in the country, the sentiment for example and respond to it's need. So we could have a technocrat for for years one term, next term a general if there is security sentiment in the public, after that religious leader if people feel all god up lol, eventually the tide might rise to give a minority the rule and we elect him, then a woman and so forth. The point is it won't matter who rules anymore as they all are protecting core values to the people and guided by a separate machine and they are just executing and doing nothing else other then that.

We really don't need elections at all, we shouldn't be asking illiterate people how to guide our nation. But we can still have democracy if people are so interested in, just as long as the council decides the candidates who are put forward to the people and they decide who they want, as the council vets out irrelevant or people who could be very dangerous. So we fulfill those stupid election requirements but it's not really our machine but just basically GLOSS.

We will be bulletproof impenetrable from domestic or foreign threats. Once that is in place we can begin creating rock hard industries, education, businesses, markets, military, the sky is the limit then, we have a reliable system that is actually REAL and not paper based or just mere elections and corruption afterwards.

 

[Yaquub]

Add to that:

- Arid land
- 99% Islam
- Tribalism
- Slow Ethnic displacement

Arid land is not an excuse, Australia has arid land and south Africa. 8.5 million hectares of the land is arable, that is a lot of farm land.

 

[Apollo]

Arid land is not an excuse, Australia has arid land and south Africa. 8.5 million hectares of the land is arable, that is a lot of farm land.

South Africa and Australia have a lot more green areas. Not comparable.

Somalia is like the Middle East and Central Asia, very shitty land.

 

[DR OSMAN]

South Africa and Australia have a lot more green areas. Not comparable.

Somalia is like the Middle East and Central Asia, very shitty land.

What about Israel, it's a desert and they turned into a paradise!!! your resources don't mean shit, most of africa is rich in resources and poor as hell because the people are fairly useless!!!

 

[Apollo]

What about Israel, it's a desert and they turned into a paradise!!! your resources don't mean shit, most of africa is rich in resources and poor as hell because the people are fairly useless!!!

Israel isn't as dry as you think, almost all of them live in the green parts of Israel.

 

[SumMo]

The things I believe is promblematic about somalis, and the reason why I believe peace will not come to Somalia:​

• Tribalism. I’m sorry but as long as tribalism exist, so will the whole ‘they’ and ‘us’ mentality. Instead of individual accountability, the entire tribe will be dragged into it. It will then evolve into a conflict regarding pride and honor. The cycle then continues..
• Homogeneity. The fact that somalis are very homogeneous, meaning there is only one main culture, one main religion and one main language, makes somalis very prideful and in turn also ignorant. Anything that is outside of this will be looked down upon. Especially religion. The heavy wave of wahhabism to Somalia, is one that will be hard to defeat.
• Fear of change. Somalis like things to be the way they are, and they fear change. Lets say a woman wants to become president, or abortion laws are implemented. Many somalis will be against these changes, regardless of what result they may bring.
• Gender distinction. The fact that boys and girls are raised differently. They are also treated in different manners in somali communities. If Somalia wants to prosper, it must treat half of its citizen the same way and give them the same opportunities as the rest. To handicap half of your population is to handicap your entire nation. Change starts with the women, the mothers who will bring the next generation of somalis.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Israel isn't as dry as you think, almost all of them live in the green parts of Israel.

Then what about Africa? it's the lushest paradise, has so much gold and diamonds they could be shitting that out a million times over per person, it has oil and pretty much every resource known to man, and don't get me started on arable land yet it's the darkest continent on earth. What you have don't mean much if the people are useless.

 

[Apollo]

Then what about Africa? it's the lushest paradise, has so much gold and diamonds they could be shitting that out a million times over per person, it has oil and pretty much every resource known to man, and don't get me started on arable land yet it's the darkest continent on earth. What you have don't mean much if the people are useless.

Africa is dead, these morons are all having 5-7 kids and unlike the past they now all survive.

 

[DR OSMAN]

The things I believe is promblematic about somalis, and the reason why I believe peace will not come to Somalia:​

• Tribalism. I’m sorry but as long as tribalism exist, so will the whole ‘they’ and ‘us’ mentality. Instead of individual accountability, the entire tribe will be dragged into it. It will then evolve into a conflict regarding pride and honor. The cycle then continues..
• Homogeneity. The fact that somalis are very homogeneous, meaning there is only one main culture, one main religion and one main language, makes somalis very prideful and in turn also ignorant. Anything that is outside of this will be looked down upon. Especially religion. The heavy wave of wahhabism to Somalia, is one that will be hard to defeat.
• Fear of change. Somalis like things to be the way they are, and they fear change. Lets say a woman wants to become president, or abortion laws are implemented. Many somalis will be against these chanhes, regardless of what result they will bring.
• Gender distinction. The fact that boys and girls are raised with differently. They are also treated different in somali communities. If Somalia wants to prosper, it must treat half of its citizen the same and give them the same opportunities. To handicap half of your population is to handicap your country. Change starts with the women, the mothers who will bring the next generation of somalis.

You stated symptoms like the poster before you, but even if every negative symptom in somalia was removed tommorow, what in the world is going to make me hold hands with and die with you? what is it? if we can't say this, we can never maintain any semblance of order, govt, respect of law, etc. We don't even know what me and you unite on lol!!!

You actually think having parties will unite us, politics is not a unity factor it's divisive issue, it will polarize us further, no country unites over having multi parties? I've never seen republicans and democrats coming out holding hands when a president is elected lol. That's not their core value that's why, that only is how they select a govt and run a govt, it's not going to make them hold hands lol.

Politics or parties it's intended purpose isn't unity but how to elect n run a govt, unity is fostered through core values of a people in most civilized countries.

 

[chosen one]

Think of the things the country achieved since 2012. Somalia been down but now the only way is up. Get that shitty attitude outta here @DR OSMAN

 

[chosen one]

The things I believe is promblematic about somalis, and the reason why I believe peace will not come to Somalia:​

• Tribalism. I’m sorry but as long as tribalism exist, so will the whole ‘they’ and ‘us’ mentality. Instead of individual accountability, the entire tribe will be dragged into it. It will then evolve into a conflict regarding pride and honor. The cycle then continues..
• Homogeneity. The fact that somalis are very homogeneous, meaning there is only one main culture, one main religion and one main language, makes somalis very prideful and in turn also ignorant. Anything that is outside of this will be looked down upon. Especially religion. The heavy wave of wahhabism to Somalia, is one that will be hard to defeat.
• Fear of change. Somalis like things to be the way they are, and they fear change. Lets say a woman wants to become president, or abortion laws are implemented. Many somalis will be against these changes, regardless of what result they may bring.
• Gender distinction. The fact that boys and girls are raised differently. They are also treated in different manners in somali communities. If Somalia wants to prosper, it must treat half of its citizen the same way and give them the same opportunities as the rest. To handicap half of your population is to handicap your entire nation. Change starts with the women, the mothers who will bring the next generation of somalis.

you're right apart from homogeneity. RN theyre not at that point of even thinking about such things. Let them fix the basics first governance, security , law, education, food & water ect. Once you function fully as a country then you can debate these things...

 

[DR OSMAN]

you're right apart from homogeneity. RN theyre not at that point of even thinking about such things. Let them fix the basics first governance, security , law, education, food & water ect. Once you function fully as a country then you can debate these things...

No sorry your wrong, Republicans and Democrats don't come holding hands when an election is over, one abuses the other constantly. Law is broken many times in the west with people shot by cops unjustly, corruption is rife at the top go look at the panama files, education, security is rough in america and heaps of people die, food n water there is millions of homeless and poor.

They have all these negative symptoms and I don't see them destroying their govt over it? so it must not be the law, security, governance, education, food n water that is uniting them sxb because these things are pretty banged up if you look at it and i've never seen them walk out holding hands over it as a nation, but if u touch their core values in the bill of rights and the constitution then it's ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNN no race will save u, no gender, no tribe, no religion, no money, no politics, no social system you will see the end of the barrel of double barrell and that's REALLLLLLL talk. We are wasting our time on good governance and that nonsense it won't help at all.