Fun fact: Italian Somaliland gained independence from Italy in Feb 1941

[Thegoodshepherd]

Too many people seem to think that Italian Somaliland gained independence from Italy on July 1st 1960. This is wrong. Somalia gained independence from Italy on Feb 25 1941. Italian Somaliland was then held by the British from Feb 1941 to April 1950. The UN trusteeship administration (AFIS) held Somalia from April 1 1950 to July 1 1960, when Somalia gained independence from the UN. Somalia was supposed to gain independence from the UN on Dec 2 1960, but SYL agitated for early independence.

The Italians ceased to have any legal authority over Somalia in 1941. Just an FYI.

 

[Burqad]

Too many people seem to think that Italian Somaliland gained independence from Italy on July 1st 1960. This is wrong. Somalia gained independence from Italy on Feb 25 1941. Italian Somaliland was then held by the British from Feb 1941 to April 1950. The UN trusteeship administration (AFIS) held Somalia from April 1 1950 to July 1 1960, when Somalia gained independence from the UN. Somalia was supposed to gain independence from the UN on Dec 2 1960, but SYL agitated for early independence.

The Italians ceased to have any legal authority over Somalia in 1941. Just an FYI.

Somalia was an Italian mandate though brother, the UN handed us back to Ciano and his fascist crew

 

[haye haye]

The Italians ceased to have any legal authority over Somalia in 1941. Just an FYI.

I don't even think they count as colonizers tbh. Nothing they did remains.

 

[XuseenS]

I don't even think they count as colonizers tbh. Nothing they did remains.

That's not how colonisation works

 

[Zak12]

That's not how colonisation works

Although they were obviously colonizers, he has a point. Somalia had no useful resources to extract so it was amongst the last African countries to be colonized. To be specific, Somalia remained a protectorate of Italy and Britain until 1927 when the Fascists properly made Somalia into a colony and even then this only lasted for 14 years when the British kicked Italy out of the Horn in 1941.

That is why there is virtually zero Italian influence in Somalia beyond some loan words, pasta, a few old ruins.

 

[XuseenS]

Although they were obviously colonizers, he has a point. Somalia had no useful resources to extract so it was amongst the last African countries to be colonized. To be specific, Somalia remained a protectorate of Italy and Britain until 1927 when the Fascists properly made Somalia into a colony and even then this only lasted for 14 years when the British kicked Italy out of the Horn in 1941.

That is why there is virtually zero Italian influence in Somalia beyond some loan words, pasta, a few old ruins.

The meaning of colonisation is not only influencing the footprint of a country but also exploiting their resources, no matter if it was not worth much at the time, Somalia was exploited from our agriculture to our borders.

If Somalia were not a colony it would look much more different today.

 

[Zak12]

If Somalia were not a colony it would look much more different today.

It would but for different reasons. There wasn't enough time for exploitation but the real devastating effect colonialism had on Somalia was the act of splitting Somalis up into different countries.

 

[XuseenS]

It would but for different reasons. There wasn't enough time for exploitation but the real devastating effect colonialism had on Somalia was the act of splitting Somalis up into different countries.

Yes, that's why the biggest loss was not being able to decide our own destiny and future.

 

[reer]

Yes, that's why the biggest loss was not being able to decide our own destiny and future.

a united somaliweyn would be much more stable. it might have turned like a typical arab dictatorship states like egypt algeria etc. but the difference would the army would always have to be on its toes and competent due to ethiopia.

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

a united somaliweyn would be much more stable. it might have turned like a typical arab dictatorship states like egypt algeria etc. but the difference would the army would always have to on its toes and competent due to ethiopia.

A united Somaliweyn would be militarily stronger than Ethiopia. It would massively shift the balance of power in east Africa. Even a Somalia that unified with galbeed would field an infantry that is stronger than anything Ethiopia or Kenya could muster.

We have to defeat Alshabab, they are holding us back massively.

 

[World]

The Italian trusteeship had considerable authority between 1950-1960 tho, no ?

Whats your thoughts on them? They seemed to have a positive impact unlike earlier fascists.

 

[Tiyeglow]

Trusteeship is euphemism for colony, UN love a wordsalad and obfuscating reality using different terminology. Let's not behave like Idoors who say that 'protectorate' isn't colonialism but a partnership with the British lol, pedantry doesn't circumvent reality:

"In 1949, when the British military administration ended, Italian Somaliland became a United Nations trusteeship known as the Trust Territory of Somaliland."

 

[Zak12]

Trusteeship is euphemism for colony, UN love a wordsalad and obfuscating reality using different terminology. Let's not behave like Idoors who say that 'protectorate' isn't colonialism but a partnership with the British lol, pedantry doesn't circumvent reality:

"In 1949, when the British military administration ended, Italian Somaliland became a United Nations trusteeship known as the Trust Territory of Somaliland."

I'm curious as to why Somalia became one of the very few colonies to become a trusteeship. As far as I know, other African colonies never had such a thing and became independent after WW2.

 

[wheel]

I'm curious as to why Somalia became one of the very few colonies to become a trusteeship. As far as I know, other African colonies never had such a thing and became independent after WW2.

They werent very comfortable giving back a former fascist - defeated power back their colonies, and Somalia wasnt really ready to become a state so this was a half measure.

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

The Italian trusteeship had considerable authority between 1950-1960 tho, no ?

Whats your thoughts on them? They seemed to have a positive impact unlike earlier fascists.

All authority held by AFIS stemmed from the UN not Italy. So they were just working for the UN and were funded by the UN.

AFIS was still run by former fascists. Many fascists afraid of going back to Italy stayed in Somalia. They did great work everywhere south of Beledweyne. The irrigation infrastructure they built in Middle & Lower Shabelle was incredibly productive for decades. They also really invested in Mogadishu and by 1960 had built it into a modern city.

 

[World]

All authority held by AFIS stemmed from the UN not Italy. So they were just working for the UN and were funded by the UN.

AFIS was still run by former fascists. Many fascists afraid of going back to Italy stayed in Somalia. They did great work everywhere south of Beledweyne. The irrigation infrastructure they built in Middle & Lower Shabelle was incredibly productive for decades. They also really invested in Mogadishu and by 1960 had built it into a modern city.

It’s a shame how more was built in those 10 years than Somalia has since 1960. Somalis don’t know how to utilise the riverine regions. despite us having a 7x higher population today, our agricultural production is only marginally better. What else were they competent at that Somalis lack today?

Do you think Xamar having a far higher urban population today could be why AFIS were much more competent at developing Mogadishu?

 

[Haragwaafi]

Somalia flag and anthem throughout the 50s was Italian kkk

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

It’s a shame how more was built in those 10 years than Somalia has since 1960. Somalis don’t know how to utilise the riverine regions. despite us having a 7x higher population today, our agricultural production is only marginally better. What else were they competent at that Somalis lack today?

Do you think Xamar having a far higher urban population today could be why AFIS were much more competent at developing Mogadishu?

It is not really about the money spent, it is all about state capacity. AFIS and the Somali state until the mid 1980s had a lot of state capacity. Governmental policy was implemented in manner that has yet to be matched by any FMS or the FGS today.

Our agricultural production today is actually les than half what it was in 1965.

Any city that the Italians had chosen for their capital would have become huge. Imo, the main leg-up the Italians gave Xamar, other than making it the capital, is the city grid. This grid plan and its extension by the Somali gov, is a huge advantage Xamar has over all other Somali cities. It is a world class grid.

https://www.economist.com/interactive/christmas-specials/2022/12/20/the-decline-of-the-city-grid

 

[Zak12]

Somalia flag and anthem throughout the 50s was Italian kkk

As opposed to Somaliland's flag and anthem during the 50s?