God And Where Will It Lead In The Future?

[DR OSMAN]

I always wondered what people 1000 years from today will believe in, Imagine someone sitting in the world 1000 years from today and how their view of god will be shaped. Do you think they will refer back to us or look at us as backwards? will they look back and say we were victims of our time and intellectual capacity like we do with the people before us?

I have always said this but just found out Carl Jung the father of modern psychology believes that also. Just because someone creates a statue or an idol for god, this doesn't mean the nature of god is a statue. Just because you believe how you believe of god doesn't make god what you hold to be true!!! I always used to say this. But I become wiser by the day and have shifted from that view-point as I started to wonder more.

I think our idea of god will change dramatically as time goes. It started with animistic things like sky, earth, fire you know the objects of earth because our intelligence at that time was at this level, we were dumb-founded by our surroundings and attributed these things to god. Does it mean these people were wrong? Not necessarily. They were victims of their time period and that's all they knew on how to handle god. Then came the idols, gods, goddess, etc of civilizations, the same logic applies to them also in my view. They were subject to to their time period and intelligence and infact some still cling onto it like hinduism.

But a huge shift starting happening around 5000 years ago with the advent of Abraham, about an invisible god. This has shaped our image of god up until today. This image teaches of 1 god but who is invisible and not comprehensible. We are still stuck in this stage. I feel in the future as our knowledge grows we will fill more gaps of life and as soon as we do, our idea of god will change. I feel a few hundred years from now, our image of god will be more about emotional states or whatever void society has at that time which needs answering. In the end when all is said and done, I think the last generation of humans and their idea of god will be around 'purpose'. Cuz that question I don't think will ever be answered by any generation now or in the future.

Even if they re-created the whole universe and lived forever which is highly possible by the time of the last human generation, people will still wonder what's the purpose of doing all this everyday with no end in sight. Purpose will be the biggest void and I feel they will say god is all about purpose and their will believers and obviously disbelievers like now. That sense of purpose is the key to everything, not the materials and what we see around us.!!!

Any inputs would be good. My religious views have changed drastically as time goes on, which I feel is good for me, I honestly don't think I will ever truly know the answer but it's about falling and getting up again and reflecting that is key to me. I hope I can say on my last day, I gave it all I had nothing worse then dying with regrets. But at times I admire those grandmothers who have such simple outlook and it's fulfilling for them!!!

 

[supz]

I always wondered what people 1000 years from today will believe in, Imagine someone sitting in the world 1000 years from today and how their view of god will be shaped. Do you think they will refer back to us or look at us as backwards? will they look back and say we were victims of our time and intellectual capacity like we do with the people before us?

I have always said this but just found out Carl Jung the father of modern psychology believes that also. Just because someone creates a statue or an idol for god, this doesn't mean the nature of god is a statue. Just because you believe how you believe of god doesn't make god what you hold to be true!!! I always used to say this. But I become wiser by the day and have shifted from that view-point as I started to wonder more.

I think our idea of god will change dramatically as time goes. It started with animistic things like sky, earth, fire you know the objects of earth because our intelligence at that time was at this level, we were dumb-founded by our surroundings and attributed these things to god. Does it mean these people were wrong? Not necessarily. They were victims of their time period and that's all they knew on how to handle god. Then came the idols, gods, goddess, etc of civilizations, the same logic applies to them also in my view. They were subject to to their time period and intelligence and infact some still cling onto it like hinduism.

But a huge shift starting happening around 5000 years ago with the advent of Abraham, about an invisible god. This has shaped our image of god up until today. This image teaches of 1 god but who is invisible and not comprehensible. We are still stuck in this stage. I feel in the future as our knowledge grows we will fill more gaps of life and as soon as we do, our idea of god will change. I feel a few hundred years from now, our image of god will be more about emotional states or whatever void society has at that time which needs answering. In the end when all is said and done, I think the last generation of humans and their idea of god will be around 'purpose'. Cuz that question I don't think will ever be answered by any generation now or in the future.

Even if they re-created the whole universe and lived forever which is highly possible by the time of the last human generation, people will still wonder what's the purpose of doing all this everyday with no end in sight. Purpose will be the biggest void and I feel they will say god is all about purpose and their will believers and obviously disbelievers like now. That sense of purpose is the key to everything, not the materials and what we see around us.!!!

Any inputs would be good. My religious views have changed drastically as time goes on, which I feel is good for me, I honestly don't think I will ever truly know the answer but it's about falling and getting up again and reflecting that is key to me. I hope I can say on my last day, I gave it all I had nothing worse then dying with regrets. But at times I admire those grandmothers who have such simple outlook and it's fulfilling for them!!!

I think that the idea of worship will change and the form of belief will also change. For as long as we developed the concept of God, God has been a spiritual object or an unseen being. We will worship idols. By that I mean that I think that the focus of worship in the future will be the material. The worship of AI systems or automatons will be rife. This is assuming that These AI systems will be vastly more intelligent and superior to the worlds supercomputers not to mention humans. A real appreciation to the most intrinsically complex contraption in the world as we know it.

 

[DR OSMAN]

I think that the idea of worship will change and the form of belief will also change. For as long as we developed the concept of God, God has been a spiritual object or an unseen being. We will worship idols. By that I mean that I think that the focus of worship in the future will be the material. The worship of AI systems or automatons will be rife. This is assuming that These AI systems will be vastly more intelligent and superior to the worlds supercomputers not to mention humans. A real appreciation to the most intrinsically complex contraption in the world as we know it.

Where-ever there is a void god will remain relevant. From the way this universe is set up, it seems like it always end in what is the purpose of all of this. If I could live millions of years and have everything I wanted, how long can I continue in that existence until I wonder what is the point of all of this? If I was born into such a world, I would feel I am in prison, it seems like the universe is a prison there is no escape but thru death and who knows if you truly escape then either. It's a vicious circle runti that ends up nowhere in the end and I put that to the lack of purpose or our limited understanding of purpose.

A-lot of these western philosophy focuses around happiness, but I think that's crazy. Imagine being in happy state forever with no change, that will quickly get boring. It's like having a car, I am sure when cars were hard to get people wanted it more but now everyone can get it and it has no intricate meaning behind it. Look at food for example, we have plenty of it now the only reason we give it meaning is cause we see people who don't have it.

If we all get happiness, I can't see it being any different to a car or food, it will wear off in the end and that gruelling question of purpose will still linger on like a vicious snake in the back of our minds!!!

That's why Im interested in reading about purpose, western side of it is all about happiness. I am not interested in that scenario as their can be no true happiness if the opposite isn't present. Food has no meaning if hunger doesnt exist the exact opposite!!! peace has no meaning if war doesnt exist!!! its like the ying and yang!!!

 

[Bidaar Wanagsan]

Bismillahi rahmani raheem.

According to hadith's, Allah created Adam in his own image:

Narrated from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Allah created Adam in His image, and he was sixty cubits tall.

Another hadith in Sahih Muslim says one should not hit people in the face because humans are made in the image of Allah. This contradicts the Quran which says Allah does not resemble his creation. As with so many hadiths in Bukhari and Muslim, this one is a forgery. But it does go to show that it's not just idol worshippers who believe that God looks like a man.

You're right. Our perspective of God changes the more we learn about science

 

[DR OSMAN]

Bismillahi rahmani raheem.

According to hadith's, Allah created Adam in his own image:

Narrated from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Allah created Adam in His image, and he was sixty cubits tall.

Another hadith in Sahih Muslim says one should not hit people in the face because humans are made in the image of Allah. This contradicts the Quran which says Allah does not resemble his creation. As with so many hadiths in Bukhari and Muslim, this one is a forgery. But it does go to show that it's not just idol worshippers who believe that God looks like a man.

You're right. Our perspective of God changes the more we learn about science

Yeah when they got simple diseases they would pray to god, now we have medicine and immunisation programs. People don't pray to god about those. But notice where science has a void in medical advances like certain conditions with no cure, god starts to play a role. Its the same with roob-doon, the second we put up a few planes in the sky and inject cloud seeds into the cloud and cause it to rain or do as the israelis have done turn air into water, you will really think they will pray to god anymore for rain? The need for god is where there is an absence. Right now our absence is knowledge of ourselves and our surroundings but even when we answer all that, we will still have the ultimate question of purpose still un-answered hence why I think god will be relevant till the last day!!!

 

[Bidaar Wanagsan]

Yeah when they got simple diseases they would pray to god, now we have medicine and immunisation programs. People don't pray to god about those. But notice where science has a void in medical advances like certain conditions with no cure, god starts to play a role. Its the same with roob-doon, the second we put up a few planes in the sky and inject cloud seeds into the cloud and cause it to rain or do as the israelis have done turn air into water, you will really think they will pray to god anymore for rain? The need for god is where there is an absence. Right now our absence is knowledge of ourselves and our surroundings but even when we answer all that, we will still have the ultimate question of purpose still un-answered hence why I think god will be relevant till the last day!!!

You're right. God is always defined by the state of current scientific ignorance. Before the invention of telescopes, people thought Allah was just above the clouds. They didn't know about outer space. They didn't know about other solar systems, galaxies, dark matter, black holes, supernovas, etc.

God was conceived of as a giant human being sitting on a throne, in the way an Arab cheiftain might. Sure, the Quran says Allah is above his throne, but unless you interpret the word "his" in that sentence literally to mean Allah is a man, then it makes no sense to interpret throne literally either. That would mean that Allah has a bottom on which to sit, for what is a throne for except sitting? It's a metaphor for Allah's power and authority, not a literal throne. Allah speaks in metaphors. Human language cannot comprehend him.

We think in spatial and temporal categories. But God is outside space and time. But wait, what does that even mean? How can you be outside space-time? Where is the throne he's supposedly on except in a particular space? And if he's outside time how can we speak of God performing actions if there is no before and after during which the action is performed? Few people truly grasp the real nature of Allah (SWT). We're talking about a non-physical being who surpasseth all understanding. Yet a lot of believers talk about him as if he is like a human being with magical powers who gets angry a lot about really trivial stuff like the length of your beard.

Anger is a weakness. It is the product of having one's plan thwarted. We lose our temper when things don't happen as we wish they would. But nothing can thwart Allah's will. Only what he desires can happen. So why get angry? Especially when he knows everything which will occur long in advance.

It's not as if it's a surprise. A hadith says that the first thing Allah created was a pen to record all human events. If he was not happy with something, he could change it billions of years in advance. But we still ascribe human emotions to him like anger and hatred and a lust to punish, punish, punish those who stand in his way as if bad events take him by surprise, and as if he was powerless to change it.

It's clear that Allah's "anger" is metaphorical because it contradicts his divine essence. Philosophically trained theologians understand this, but many people think of Allah as basically a person with human thoughts and human feelings, but just more powerful. As time goes on, and as our knowledge of science develops, we'll come to understand, really and truly understand instead of just paying lip service to it, that our human terms and categories do not apply to him, and that to even call God "him" is to have misunderstood the creator.

 

[DR OSMAN]

You're right. God is always defined by the state of current scientific ignorance. Before the invention of telescopes, people thought Allah was just above the clouds. They didn't know about outer space. They didn't know about other solar systems, galaxies, dark matter, black holes, supernovas, etc.

God was conceived of as a giant human being sitting on a throne, in the way an Arab cheiftain might. Sure, the Quran says Allah is above his throne, but unless you interpret the word "his" in that sentence literally to mean Allah is a man, then it makes no sense to interpret throne literally either. That would mean that Allah has a bottom on which to sit, for what is a throne for except sitting? It's a metaphor for Allah's power and authority, not a literal throne. Allah speaks in metaphors. Human language cannot comprehend him.

We think in spatial and temporal categories. But God is outside space and time. But wait, what does that even mean? How can you be outside space-time? Where is the throne he's supposedly on except in a particular space? And if he's outside time how can we speak of God performing actions if there is no before and after during which the action is performed? Few people truly grasp the real nature of Allah (SWT). We're talking about a non-physical being who surpasseth all understanding. Yet a lot of believers talk about him as if he is like a human being with magical powers who gets angry a lot about really trivial stuff like the length of your beard.

Anger is a weakness. It is the product of having one's plan thwarted. We lose our temper when things don't happen as we wish they would. But nothing can thwart Allah's will. Only what he desires can happen. So why get angry? Especially when he knows everything which will occur long in advance.

It's not as if it's a surprise. A hadith says that the first thing Allah created was a pen to record all human events. If he was not happy with something, he could change it billions of years in advance. But we still ascribe human emotions to him like anger and hatred and a lust to punish, punish, punish those who stand in his way as if bad events take him by surprise, and as if he was powerless to change it.

It's clear that Allah's "anger" is metaphorical because it contradicts his divine essence. Philosophically trained theologians understand this, but many people think of Allah as basically a person with human thoughts and human feelings, but just more powerful. As time goes on, and as our knowledge of science develops, we'll come to understand, really and truly understand instead of just paying lip service to it, that our human terms and categories do not apply to him, and that to even call God "him" is to have misunderstood the creator.

Pretty accurate. How else would god speak to people in the 7th century though? he would need to speak to them at their capacity, just like you speak to a kid at their capacity. The ignorance is they actually think since god spoke to them at their level, he is at that level. Hence people like cognissance, mohsin, etc. They limit god to how he revealed himself to them. It's like a child saying their parents are at their same level because a parent speaks to them at that level. They understand no better hence why an adult has to go down to that level, it doesn't however mean the parent is at that level except with a few exceptions like mohsin and coignissance.

Now the level me and u are understanding god is higher but don't make any mistakes about it, 1000 years from now, we will be looked as backward and ignorance even though we weren't, we were stuck with what we had to work with and our intelligence. Intelligence grows because as time moves on sxb, previous generations keep adding and adding and u get far more to review then those before you. If people are not smarter as time goes on, there is a huge problem. Imagine if we didn't progress from hunting and gathering and just stayed there none of what we have today would be possible nor could we even review anything, infact we would probably be dead as things changed around us like climate, less food supply, etc. That's why I tell these ignorant people even if u want to look back in time and be stuck in there doesn't mean time isn't going to move foward with or without you?

 

[Bidaar Wanagsan]

You're spot on. Theology, like every other department of human knowledge, evolves as our understanding of the natural world grows. The generations that come after us will be as more advanced theologically as they are technologically. Even literalists change their interpretation of Islam. They claim that the Quran contains scientific information that was only discovered with the advent of modern science. They claim that it talks of the Big Bang, embryology, plate tectonics, etc, and that even more science discoveries will be made as human knowledge catches up with the Quran, yet no classical tafsir ever mentions such things. They're claiming to be greater experts on the Quran than Ibn Kathir and Tabari.

Salafis have also changed the meaning of hadiths to fit modern knowledge. There is a hadith which says that disbelievers have seven intestines, and Muslims have one intestine. Before they learned about human anatomy, nobody thought to question the biological accuracy of this hadith. For hundreds and hundreds of years they read it literally. But when they discovered that it does not conform to science, they added a note to the text to say that the hadith refers not to how many intestines people have but to the greedy nature of the kuffar.

That doesn't make any more sense since, even if it is a metaphor, intestines have nothing to do with greed - it's the stomach that is the universal symbol of greed. Further, the word greed is not in the hadith at all. They changed their interpretation to avoid embarrassment.

I like your parent analogy. Allah speaks to humans in a dumbed down way. Literalism is not even Islamic. A literal interpretation leads to contradictions and error. For example, the Quran gives three descriptions of Allah's physical location: it says Allah is in the East and in the West, then it says Allah is above his throne, and then it says Allah is closer to you than your jugular vein. Which is it? You can't be in all three places at once. Literalists are not really literalists. They are selective in their literalism. They interpret things metaphorically when it suits them.

We have to understand God's message in the spirit in which it was intended, in the spirit of his divine compassion and mercy, which is the preamble of every Sura except the ninth Sura and therefore the most repeatedly emphasized message of the Quran, as opposed to the medieval way that Wahabbis do.

We can never claim to have the absolute truth. Only a partial understanding that may need to be revised in the light of further advances in knowledge. That's why there can never be any room for dogmatism or intolerance. A wise man said: Say not that I have found the truth, but that I have found a truth.