GENETICS Interesting recent paper on the genetics of the Fulani people.

[Adeba]

Link provided :-

Echoes from the last Green Sahara: whole genome analysis of Fulani, a key population to unveil the genetic evolutionary history of Africa

Background The Sahelian Fulani are the largest nomadic pastoral ethnic group. Their origins are still largely unknown and their Eurasian genetic component is usually explained by recent admixture events with northern African groups. However, it has also been proposed that Fulani may be the...

www.biorxiv.org

One thing I'm trying to work out; the origins of the patrilineage y dna E1b1a M2 did it come from proto Omotics or from Ancient North Africans (a Gobero / Taforalt like population.

Any thoughts?

 

[kaahin13]

Not sure but are you sure this lineage comes from Eurasian pop, why can’t it be sub Saharan lineage? Here is the avg of fulanis


Target: Fulani_avg
Distance: 0.2367% / 0.00236670
73.4 SSA
15.4 Taforalt
10.4 EEF
0.6 CHG
0.2 WHG

 

[Nomadite]

Link provided :-

Echoes from the last Green Sahara: whole genome analysis of Fulani, a key population to unveil the genetic evolutionary history of Africa

Background The Sahelian Fulani are the largest nomadic pastoral ethnic group. Their origins are still largely unknown and their Eurasian genetic component is usually explained by recent admixture events with northern African groups. However, it has also been proposed that Fulani may be the...

www.biorxiv.org

One thing I'm trying to work out; the origins of the patrilineage y dna E1b1a M2 did it come from proto Omotics or from Ancient North Africans (a Gobero / Taforalt like population.

Any thoughts?

proto omotics likely

 

[Step a side]

Not sure but are you sure this lineage comes from Eurasian pop, why can’t it be sub Saharan lineage? Here is the avg of fulanis


Target: Fulani_avg
Distance: 0.2367% / 0.00236670
73.4 SSA
15.4 Taforalt
10.4 EEF
0.6 CHG
0.2 WHG

They seem to have had absorbed Berber or Berber like population. I can tell by high EEF and Taforalt.

 

[kaahin13]

They seem to have had absorbed Berber or Berber like population. I can tell by high EEF and Taforalt.

Yeah it might be that they were originally Neolithic Moroccans who assimilated with west Africans

 

[The alchemist]

Yup, exactly what I have written here several times. The Fulanis are of an older North African mixture (Toubous are, as well), with likely intra-geneflow masking, especially in Fulanis. There seems to have been a Neolithic expansion of groups and a prior Paleolithic IBM presence in the Sahara too.

In the next five years, we will probably see a massive study uncovering Paleolithic/Neolithic ancestry time-transects in the Saharan geography, showing ancient Saharan, hopefully, the old genetics of cattle-herders of Nilo-Saharan extraction and south-reaching/peripheral and expanding North African peoples that infer models into the possible interactions.

Ancient DNA has to make a couple of big promises from here on out, in my opinion. Presumably, what will happen first is the genetic mapping of current groups of the region to get a resolution for the diversity and then creating simulation inference models that carry somewhat limited but valuable explanatory power for possible pre-historic geneflow. And this might guide better research questions and focus on what to set to engage in when they acquire ancient DNA from the region. The last thing we need is getting valuable DNA with papers written with the wrong perspective, which leads to worse interpretation or lackluster volume and vision.

 

[Adeba]

Yup, exactly what I have written here several times. The Fulanis are of an older North African mixture (Toubous are, as well), with likely intra-geneflow masking, especially in Fulanis. There seems to have been a Neolithic expansion of groups and a prior Paleolithic IBM presence in the Sahara too.

In the next five years, we will probably see a massive study uncovering Paleolithic/Neolithic ancestry time-transects in the Saharan geography, showing ancient Saharan, hopefully, the old genetics of cattle-herders of Nilo-Saharan extraction and south-reaching/peripheral and expanding North African peoples that infer models into the possible interactions.

Ancient DNA has to make a couple of big promises from here on out, in my opinion. Presumably, what will happen first is the genetic mapping of current groups of the region to get a resolution for the diversity and then creating simulation inference models that carry somewhat limited but valuable explanatory power for possible pre-historic geneflow. And this might guide better research questions and focus on what to set to engage in when they acquire ancient DNA from the region. The last thing we need is getting valuable DNA with papers written with the wrong perspective, which leads to worse interpretation or lackluster volume and vision.

Hope they will release results on the gobero findings as I believe it could contain some vital clues.

By the way much appreciation and thanks for your contribution

 

[SuperBantuWeyne]

Not sure but are you sure this lineage comes from Eurasian pop, why can’t it be sub Saharan lineage? Here is the avg of fulanis


Target: Fulani_avg
Distance: 0.2367% / 0.00236670
73.4 SSA
15.4 Taforalt
10.4 EEF
0.6 CHG
0.2 WHG

Ancient North Africans weren't eurasians, the eurasian admixture their descendants received (Iberomaurusians, Kiffians...)seems to be solely from their maternal side so technically if their Y dna comes from them, it's Subsaharan related. I think the difference between ANA and typical modern West African ancestry is the more basal ancestry embedded amongst the latter(from
Khoisan/pygmy-like hunter gatherers
such as Iwo Eleru or Shum Laka). That's why even though the maternally eurasian admixed
ANA descendants(Kiffian, Taforalt) might be responsible for some E found amongst Fulanis/W-africans(the paper mention E1b-Z15939, a E-M2 subclade) dating back to the last green Sahara, others(different E-M2 subclades? E-M75? E-M33?)might have been brought South of the desert way before, we shouldn't neglect the night diversity of E lineages in West Africa. The Sahara has seen several episodes of green Sahara and the Aterians(non eurasian admixed ANA?),
predecessors of the Iberomaurusians/Kiffians in North Africa and the Sahel probably carried some E lineages southward with their migration thousands of years before their eurasian admixed relatives followed them during another Green Sahara.

 

[Adeba]

Yeah it might be that they were originally Neolithic Moroccans who assimilated with

Ancient North Africans weren't eurasians, the eurasian admixture their descendants received (Iberomaurusians, Kiffians...)seems to be solely from their maternal side so technically if their Y dna comes from them, it's Subsaharan related. I think the difference between ANA and typical modern West African ancestry is the more basal ancestry embedded amongst the latter(from
Khoisan/pygmy-like hunter gatherers
such as Iwo Eleru or Shum Laka). That's why even though the maternally eurasian admixed
ANA descendants(Kiffian, Taforalt) might be responsible for some E found amongst Fulanis/W-africans(the paper mention E1b-Z15939, a E-M2 subclade) dating back to the last green Sahara, others(different E-M2 subclades? E-M75? E-M33?)might have been brought South of the desert way before, we shouldn't neglect the night diversity of E lineages in West Africa. The Sahara has seen several episodes of green Sahara and the Aterians(non eurasian admixed ANA?),
predecessors of the Iberomaurusians/Kiffians in North Africa and the Sahel probably carried some E lineages southward with their migration thousands of years before their eurasian admixed relatives followed them during another Green Sahara.

Thanks for your input.

True we shouldn't forget the diversity of ydna E in West Africa but we should remember also remember that ydna E is a brother clade to D and D is found outside Africa in Asia. Although they found D Clades in Nigeria.

A Rare Deep-Rooting D0 African Y-Chromosomal Haplogroup and Its Implications for the Expansion of Modern Humans Out of Africa - PMC

Humans expanded out of Africa 50,000-70,000 years ago, but many details of this migration are poorly understood. Here, Haber et al. sequence Y chromosomes belonging to a rare African lineage and analyze... Keywords: Human Y chromosome, YAP+ Y ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

But they have also found D Clades in Yemen where E is also found.

Samples from Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Syria split D shortly after the split from DE and have an Upper Paleolithic TMRCA – Mygrations

phylogeographer.com

 

[SuperBantuWeyne]

Thanks for your input.

True we shouldn't forget the diversity of ydna E in West Africa but we should remember also remember that ydna E is a brother clade to D and D is found outside Africa in Asia. Although they found D Clades in Nigeria.

A Rare Deep-Rooting D0 African Y-Chromosomal Haplogroup and Its Implications for the Expansion of Modern Humans Out of Africa - PMC

Humans expanded out of Africa 50,000-70,000 years ago, but many details of this migration are poorly understood. Here, Haber et al. sequence Y chromosomes belonging to a rare African lineage and analyze... Keywords: Human Y chromosome, YAP+ Y ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

But they have also found D Clades in Yemen where E is also found.

Samples from Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Syria split D shortly after the split from DE and have an Upper Paleolithic TMRCA – Mygrations

phylogeographer.com

Although ydna E area of origin is disputed, it's sure that it came from either East Africa, North Africa or Arabia therefore its spread in West Africa is very likely to have happened in several waves given the diversity found over there.