Is it Lawful to Close the Mosques?

[Omar del Sur]

Look.... I am not saying it is wrong to close the mosques.......

but are there not pandemics that took place in the past?

Look at black death in Europe, for example.

Pandemics have happened before. Therefore on the issue of closing the mosques, shouldn't the scholars be able to cite scholars of the past who issued fataawa saying that the mosques can be closed due to pandemic?

Do we have such fataawa from the scholars of the past and if not then why not?

I don't blame the local mosques for closing. Imams would probably be arrested if they refused and then the mosque would be closed anyways.

So I'm not blaming the local mosques where you live or where I live.

I'm also not saying it is wrong. But I think it's wrong.

As far as I'm aware, this idea that we can close the mosques due to pandemic is new and without precedent. Pandemics are not new but I think this idea is.

If I am wrong, why didn't the scholars of the past make such a ruling?

Did the pious predecessors ever make such a ruling?

I'm just an ordinary person. I myself don't carry any weight here. But that doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong.

 

[Xasusi]

Why do you want mosques open. This is low IQ akhi.

The information we have now far exceeds anything we knew during the previous plagues. If opening mosques will kill people, then they have to remain closed.

Besides state authority supercedes the local imams and the haram had been closed.

 

[Strike6times]

“’Abdullah b. ‘Abbas reported that he said to the Mu’adhdhin on a rainy day: When you have announced” I testify that there is no god but Allah; I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah,” do not say:” Come to the prayer,” but make this announcement:” Say prayer in your houses.” He (the narrator) said that the people disapproved of it. Ibn ‘Abbas said: Are you astonished at it? He (the Holy Prophet), who is better than I, did it. Jumu’a prayer is no doubt obligatory, but I do not like that I should (force you) to come out and walk in mud and slippery ground.”

 

[Omar del Sur]

Why do you want mosques open. This is low IQ akhi.

The information we have now far exceeds anything we knew during the previous plagues. If opening mosques will kill people, then they have to remain closed.

Besides state authority supercedes the local imams and the haram had been closed.

"The information we have now far exceeds anything we knew during the previous plagues.".....

isn't this the same kind of reasoning atheists use? "we now know..."

this disparagement of the past....

and believe it or not, I don't worship Saudi..... I don't like to backbite them but I don't worship them either......

no, objectively I am not low IQ...... the testing has been done.... I am not low IQ and it is not low IQ to take my position


this idea that we need to think in a materialistic way is not higher IQ

if you have an argument against me, fine but use that and not ad hominem.... that you use ad hominem I think shows that your position is weaker

as for your argument "well us today we know more than they"........

firstly- not when it comes to religion..... we are inferior to them when it comes to that......

secondly, this is the same kind of reasoning as atheists use.... people today are more atheistic so by that same logic shouldn't we be atheist?

ad hominem isn't a substitute for argument and the argument is lacking

 

[Omar del Sur]

“’Abdullah b. ‘Abbas reported that he said to the Mu’adhdhin on a rainy day: When you have announced” I testify that there is no god but Allah; I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah,” do not say:” Come to the prayer,” but make this announcement:” Say prayer in your houses.” He (the narrator) said that the people disapproved of it. Ibn ‘Abbas said: Are you astonished at it? He (the Holy Prophet), who is better than I, did it. Jumu’a prayer is no doubt obligatory, but I do not like that I should (force you) to come out and walk in mud and slippery ground.”

so where is the fatwa from the scholars of the past that uses this as proof for closing the mosques in case of pandemic?

many of the mosques are still open in Pakistan and I think they are absolutely in the right

 

[Strike6times]

so where is the fatwa from the scholars of the past that uses this as proof for closing the mosques in case of pandemic?

many of the mosques are still open in Pakistan and I think they are absolutely in the right

is a pandemic not worse than rain

 

[Omar del Sur]

is a pandemic not worse than rain

Why didn't the scholars of the past say to shut down the mosques?

 

[Xasusi]

is a pandemic not worse than rain

This guy won't use his aql. It's hard to convince him unless some like Ibn Taymiyyah said so.

 

[Strike6times]

Why didn't the scholars of the past say to shut down the mosques?

akhi I hope you know that you should avoid areas where there is a plague and not to endanger other people or yourself with the illness. the prophet telling people not to congregate is not proof for you?

 

[Omar del Sur]

This guy won't use his aql. It's hard to convince him unless some like Ibn Taymiyyah said so.

"use his aql"......

I think you live in Europe and need to leave that place........

all this stuff about "reason," and "Enlightenment" and didn't you claim you read Kant? an "Enlightenment" thinker..... I reject the European so-called "Enlightenment" and I don't believe reason supersedes divine revelation like the mutazilah

Islam isn't based on what you think or what I think, contrary to this white people way of thinking that's led them to think women can have penises

I think you're just reflecting European "rationalism" but trying to make it seem Islamic by using an Arabic word.... your thinking seems identical to European "Enlightenment" ideology

 

[Omar del Sur]

akhi I hope you know that you should avoid areas where there is a plague and not to endanger other people or yourself with the illness. the prophet telling people not to congregate is not proof for you?

Why are you masking it in this pious thing?

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) didn't say to close the mosques due to pandemic

 

[Omar del Sur]

"It is permissible to not pray Jumu‘ah and prayers in congregation in the event of heavy rain, cold wind or snow which is bothersome to people and makes it difficult for them to go to Jumu‘ah"

If there is snow or rain, does that make it permissible to miss Jumu‘ah? - Islam Question & Answer

islamqa.info

It is permissible to miss the congregational prayer in case of extreme weather.... that is different than just straight up closing the mosque

 

[Omar del Sur]

Islam has guidelines on how to deal with pandemics....... evidently, pandemics aren't something new....... why would it be that closing the mosques is right and it took Muslims 1,400 years to discover it?

 

[The alchemist]

It kind of makes the opinions of the scholars of the ancient/medieval times obsolete in this matter when knowledge of germ theory (i.e., the source of viral diseases, nature, and how it spreads) wasn't discovered until much later.

 

[Abdi sensei]

It kind of makes the opinions of the scholars of the ancient/medieval times obsolete in this matter when knowledge of germ theory (i.e., the source of viral diseases, nature, and how it spreads) wasn't discovered until much later.

The religion is complete. Nothing needs to be changed because of any new found knowledge.

That is innovation. I see how the brother is concerned.

 

[Lum]

Look.... I am not saying it is wrong to close the mosques.......

but are there not pandemics that took place in the past?

Look at black death in Europe, for example.

Pandemics have happened before. Therefore on the issue of closing the mosques, shouldn't the scholars be able to cite scholars of the past who issued fataawa saying that the mosques can be closed due to pandemic?

Do we have such fataawa from the scholars of the past and if not then why not?

I don't blame the local mosques for closing. Imams would probably be arrested if they refused and then the mosque would be closed anyways.

So I'm not blaming the local mosques where you live or where I live.

I'm also not saying it is wrong. But I think it's wrong.

As far as I'm aware, this idea that we can close the mosques due to pandemic is new and without precedent. Pandemics are not new but I think this idea is.

If I am wrong, why didn't the scholars of the past make such a ruling?

Did the pious predecessors ever make such a ruling?

I'm just an ordinary person. I myself don't carry any weight here. But that doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong.

«Sh.’Uthaymīn رحمه الله “Closing mosques and the Ka’bah etc for a need is not an issue, and it cannot be said that doing so is from forbidding that Allah's Name be glorified & mentioned in Mosques; because this is for a benefit, or need, or necessity sometimes, so no problem.”»

 

[The alchemist]

The religion is complete. Nothing needs to be changed because of any new found knowledge.

That is innovation. I see how the brother is concerned.

You clearly didn't read my posts correctly, because I never innovated, or disagreed with anything from the Quran other than @Omar del Sur faulty reasoning and useless semantics.

I question the guy's integrity. On the one hand, he posts old pseudoscientific racialist books about the inferiority of blacks and how the black race is 200,000 years behind the whites in evolutionary development. On the other hand, he's preaching religious piety.

 

[Omar del Sur]

You clearly didn't read my posts correctly, because I never innovated, or disagreed with anything from the Quran other than @Omar del Sur faulty reasoning and useless semantics.

I question the guy's integrity. On the one hand, he posts old pseudoscientific racialist books about the inferiority of blacks and how the black race is 200,000 years behind the whites in evolutionary development. On the other hand, he's preaching religious piety.

How the black race is behind whites 200,00 years in evolutionary development?

That's pretty strange, given that I don't believe in evolution.

Can you tell me the name of the book that I posted which said that?

 

[Omar del Sur]

It kind of makes the opinions of the scholars of the ancient/medieval times obsolete in this matter when knowledge of germ theory (i.e., the source of viral diseases, nature, and how it spreads) wasn't discovered until much later.

No, the earlier generations knew Islam better than we do. And if the truth is on your side, why did you have to make up a lie about me?

I would like to know what book I posted that claims blacks are 200,000 years behind in evolutionary development.

Or do you think it's just a casual thing to lie about me? Again, I don't believe in evolution so it would be pretty strange for me to believe blacks are evolutionarily behind whites.

Abdullah ibn Amr reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “There are four signs that make someone a pure hypocrite and whoever has them has a characteristic of hypocrisy until he abandons it: when he speaks he lies, when he makes a covenant he is treacherous, when he makes a promise he breaks it, and when he argues he is wicked.”

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 34, Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 58

Grade: Muttafaqun Alayhi (authenticity agreed upon) according to Al-Bukhari and Muslim

Hadith on Hypocrisy: Four signs of a pure hypocrite

abuaminaelias.com

 

[Omar del Sur]

@Omar del Sur faulty reasoning and useless semantics.

Firstly- if my reasoning is faulty why didn't you attack my reasoning instead of making up a lie about me?

Secondly- where exactly do I argue on the basis of semantics? What is that even referring to?