Is Leadership only for the quraysh ?

[bigdogg]

This is a discussion to clear up some thoughts regarding the numerous hadiths that state leadership is only for the quraysh

here are pre requisites before reading my post

Spoiler: hadiths about quraish

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here are ayaht and hadiths that do not make this a clear cut legislation

1. وَعَدَ ٱللَّهُ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ مِنكُمْ وَعَمِلُوا۟ ٱلصَّـٰلِحَـٰتِ لَيَسْتَخْلِفَنَّهُمْ فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ كَمَا ٱسْتَخْلَفَ ٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِهِمْ وَلَيُمَكِّنَنَّ لَهُمْ دِينَهُمُ ٱلَّذِى ٱرْتَضَىٰ لَهُمْ وَلَيُبَدِّلَنَّهُم مِّنۢ بَعْدِ خَوْفِهِمْ أَمْنًۭا ۚ يَعْبُدُونَنِى لَا يُشْرِكُونَ بِى شَيْـًۭٔا ۚ وَمَن كَفَرَ بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ فَأُو۟لَـٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْفَـٰسِقُونَ surah nuh 55

Allah has promised those of you who believe and do good that He will certainly make them successors in the land, as He did with those before them; and will surely establish for them their faith which He has chosen for them; and will indeed change their fear into security—˹provided that˺ they worship Me, associating nothing with Me. But whoever disbelieves after this ˹promise˺, it is they who will be the rebellious.

the tafsir of this ayah states this refers to rulership in the land , if so why does this ayah not state being from quraysh as a requirement , from this ayah the only requirement for rulership is that he is a muslim , so if a man takes over as king his only requirement is to be a muslim and rule with what allah has sent down

“Even if the one appointed over you is a mutilated Ethiopian slave whose nose and ears have been cut off, listen to him and obey, so long as he leads you according to the Book of Allah.” [Sunan Ibn Majah 2861]"

from this hadith it is permissble to appoint a non qurashi man to lead the people


more hadiths that prove
3.

Abu Dharr (may Allah be pleased with him) reported: I said: "O Messenger of Allah, will you not appoint me to (an official position)?" He patted me on my shoulder with his hand and said: "O Abu Dharr, you are weak and it is a trust. It will be a cause of disgrace and remorse on the Day of Resurrection, except for the one who takes it up with a full sense of responsibility and fulfills what is entrusted to him."
Sahih/Authentic. - [Muslim]

abu dharr was not from quraish , why would one of the most senior companions ask the prophet for something which he knew was haram for him , either one can say he was not aware (which is wrong as anyone who knows the seerah will know abu dharr arived in madinah years after islam was established and many of the hadiths were mentioned ) or this was specific for him

4.

Abu Mūsa al-Ash‘ari (may Allah be pleased with him) reported: I and two of my paternal cousins entered upon the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him). One of them said: "O Messenger of Allah, appoint us rulers over some of what Allah, the Almighty, has entrusted you with." The other said the same. The Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) said: "By Allah! We do not entrust this post to anyone who seeks it or is keen to attain it.’"
Sahih/Authentic. - [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]

abu musa is from yemen he was not from quraish , why would his cousins ask for rulership if it was only for quraish ?


4."This matter will remain in Quraysh, so long as two of them remain" (Muslim, Volume 9, Book 89, Number 254)

this hadith if taken litteraly means only quraish will lead till the day of judgement but that isnt the case as we have seen not only from history but many hadiths that disprove this

near the day of jugdement a foreign king from qahtan shall rule the people

Narrated Muhammad bin Jubair bin Mut`im:
That while he was with a delegation from Quraish to Muawiya, the latter heard the news that `Abdullah bin `Amr bin Al-`As said that there would be a king from the tribe of Qahtan. On that Muawiya became angry, got up and then praised Allah as He deserved, and said, "Now then, I have heard that some men amongst you narrate things which are neither in the Holy Book, nor have been told by Allah's Messenger (ﷺ). Those men are the ignorant amongst you. Beware of such hopes as make the people go astray, for I heard Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) saying, 'Authority of ruling will remain with Quraish, and whoever bears hostility to them, Allah will destroy him as long as they abide by the laws of the religion.' "

It was narrated from Abu Hurairah that the Prophet (ﷺ) said:
"The Hour will not begin until 'Eisa bin Maryam comes down as a just judge and a just ruler. He will break the cross, kill the pigs and abolish the Jizyah, and wealth will become so abundant that no one will accept it."

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ بْنُ عُيَيْنَةَ، عَنِ الزُّهْرِيِّ، عَنْ سَعِيدِ بْنِ الْمُسَيَّبِ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ قَالَ ‏ "‏ لاَ تَقُومُ السَّاعَةُ حَتَّى يَنْزِلَ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ حَكَمًا مُقْسِطًا وَإِمَامًا عَدْلاً فَيَكْسِرُ الصَّلِيبَ وَيَقْتُلُ الْخِنْزِيرَ وَيَضَعُ الْجِزْيَةَ وَيَفِيضُ الْمَالُ حَتَّى لاَ يَقْبَلَهُ أَحَدٌ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

if we are to take the previous hadiths litteraly shouldnt the mahdi lead over isa , since isa (as) is not from quraish?? , religious piety takes precedence over lineage


finally just wanted to round it up by saying leadership isnt something anyone should strive for (i definetly dont want it ) and for us muslims in our times we should take the advice of the prophet (peace be upon him,

"there will be) some people calling at the gates of the (Hell) Fire, and whoever will respond to their call, will be thrown by them into the (Hell) Fire.” I said, “O Allah s Apostle! Will you describe them to us?” He said, “They will be from our own people and will speak our language.” I said, “What do you order me to do if such a state should take place in my life?” He said, “Stick to the Jama’ah and their Imam [singular]” I said, “If there is neither a Jama’ah nor an Imam [singular]?” He said, “Then turn away from all those factions [firaq] even if you were to bite (eat) the roots of a tree till death overtakes you while you are in that state.”‘ [Sahih al-Bukhari 7084]

turn away from all this politics and focus on your salah and helping your family and community "

Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: “The people most beloved to Allah are those who are most beneficial to the people; and the most beloved deed to Allah is to make a Muslim happy, or remove one of his troubles, or to fulfill his debt, or to satiate his hunger.

Walking to fulfill a need of my Muslim brother is more beloved to me than sitting in i’tikaf in a Masjid for two months. Mu’jamul Kabir, Hadith: 13646, Al Mu’jamul Awsat, Hadith: 6023, Al Mu’jamus Saghir, Hadith: 861, Targhib, vol. 2 pg. 67 and vol. 3 pg. 394/5, Majma’uz Zawaid, vol. 8 pg. 191

 

[Aurelian]

This needs no brain to get to a conclusion unless you are Salafi or Shia

 

[niggaibnh]

This is a discussion to clear up some thoughts regarding the numerous hadiths that state leadership is only for the quraysh

here are pre requisites before reading my post

Spoiler: hadiths about quraish

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

here are ayaht and hadiths that do not make this a clear cut legislation

1. وَعَدَ ٱللَّهُ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ مِنكُمْ وَعَمِلُوا۟ ٱلصَّـٰلِحَـٰتِ لَيَسْتَخْلِفَنَّهُمْ فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ كَمَا ٱسْتَخْلَفَ ٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِهِمْ وَلَيُمَكِّنَنَّ لَهُمْ دِينَهُمُ ٱلَّذِى ٱرْتَضَىٰ لَهُمْ وَلَيُبَدِّلَنَّهُم مِّنۢ بَعْدِ خَوْفِهِمْ أَمْنًۭا ۚ يَعْبُدُونَنِى لَا يُشْرِكُونَ بِى شَيْـًۭٔا ۚ وَمَن كَفَرَ بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ فَأُو۟لَـٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْفَـٰسِقُونَ surah nuh 55



the tafsir of this ayah states this refers to rulership in the land , if so why does this ayah not state being from quraysh as a requirement , from this ayah the only requirement for rulership is that he is a muslim , so if a man takes over as king his only requirement is to be a muslim and rule with what allah has sent down



from this hadith it is permissble to appoint a non qurashi man to lead the people


more hadiths that prove
3.


abu dharr was not from quraish , why would one of the most senior companions ask the prophet for something which he knew was haram for him , either one can say he was not aware (which is wrong as anyone who knows the seerah will know abu dharr arived in madinah years after islam was established and many of the hadiths were mentioned ) or this was specific for him

4.


abu musa is from yemen he was not from quraish , why would his cousins ask for rulership if it was only for quraish ?


4."This matter will remain in Quraysh, so long as two of them remain" (Muslim, Volume 9, Book 89, Number 254)

this hadith if taken litteraly means only quraish will lead till the day of judgement but that isnt the case as we have seen not only from history but many hadiths that disprove this

near the day of jugdement a foreign king from qahtan shall rule the people





if we are to take the previous hadiths litteraly shouldnt the mahdi lead over isa , since isa (as) is not from quraish?? , religious piety takes precedence over lineage


finally just wanted to round it up by saying leadership isnt something anyone should strive for (i definetly dont want it ) and for us muslims in our times we should take the advice of the prophet (peace be upon him,


turn away from all this politics and focus on your salah and helping your family and community "

No anyone can lead doesn’t matter where they from
In fact in some narrations 17 years old (forgot his name ) used to lead Umar (Ra) and Abu bakar (Ra) under him but the prophet (saw) orders

I think quraish leader is specifically talking about imam mahdi who is comes from the family of the prophet (saw) and he will lead even a noble prophet isa .

 

[Deleted L]

There’s a difference of opinion among scholars as to whether being from Quraysh is a requirement for a caliph.

Either way, ideally it is better to have a Qurayshi Caliph than a non-Qurayshi Caliph if they are both qualified.

If a Somali and a Qurayshi Arab are both equally qualified to be Caliphs (if you hold the opinion that a Non-Qurayshi can be a caliph), you should choose the Qurayshi instead.

Idealism isn’t the same as pragmatic reality though, we need to make that clear distinction. Theory and reality is different. Even if you hold the opinion that a Non-Qurayshi can’t be a Caliph, what’s more important than having a Qurayshi Caliph is Muslims having a competent ruler who can represent their interests. Throughout Islamic history, there were Non-Qurayshi rulers that fought for Islam in both defensive and offensive Jihad and expanded their domain (Delhi Sultanate, Mughal empire etc).

The Abbasaid Caliphs were from the Quraysh and they were weak figureheads for most of their existence whereas the Ottoman Sultans were not Qurayshi but they were a powerful long-lasting empire/sultanate for much of their existence. The Ottomans not only defended the Muslims but they conquered many lands and established Islam as a powerful force to be reckoned with for most of their history (until their decline in the late 1700s and their eventual collapse in WW1).

 

[Hamzza]

This needs no brain to get to a conclusion unless you are Salafi or Shia

Or Quranist Kafir

 

[Aurelian]

Or Quranist Kafir

?

 

[bigdogg]

No anyone can lead doesn’t matter where they from
In fact in some narrations 17 years old (forgot his name ) used to lead Umar (Ra) and Abu bakar (Ra) under him but the prophet (saw) orders

I think quraish leader is specifically talking about imam mahdi who is comes from the family of the prophet (saw) and he will lead even a noble prophet isa .

yea usama bin zaid who's mother was umm barakah a abysinian/black women led the companions in that expedition

 

[bigdogg]

yea usama bin zaid who's mother was umm barakah a abysinian/black women led the companions in that expedition

just to add to my point ,

usama bin zaid is not from quraish nor was his father , zaid bin haritah who was from najd , yet usama was appointed as leader over many of the senior companions who were from quraish

 

[al-Mu'tamid المعتمد]

just to add to my point ,

usama bin zaid is not from quraish nor was his father , zaid bin haritah who was from najd , yet usama was appointed as leader over many of the senior companions who were from quraish

It is a different matter. He was made general of the army, which anyone could take. But we are talking about who is qualified for becoming a Caliph.

 

[bigdogg]

It is a different matter. He was made general of the army, which anyone could take. But we are talking about who is qualified for becoming a Caliph.

the Hadith stated leadership? , but nonetheless my original points still stand , I have yet to see anyone refute all of my original points ,

just the Hadith of Abu dharr and the prophecy of a ruler from the tribe of qahtan should be enough to validate my points but all of them make it a solid discussion

 

[al-Mu'tamid المعتمد]

the Hadith stated leadership? , but nonetheless my original points still stand , I have yet to see anyone refute all of my original points ,

just the Hadith of Abu dharr and the prophecy of a ruler from the tribe of qahtan should be enough to validate my points but all of them make it a solid discussion

It was narrated that Jaabir ibn Samurah said: I entered upon the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) with my father, and I heard him say: “This matter will not end until there have been among them twelve caliphs.” Then he said something that I could not hear, and I said to my father: What did he say? He said: “All of them will be from Quraysh.”

What about this hadith?

 

[bigdogg]

It was narrated that Jaabir ibn Samurah said: I entered upon the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) with my father, and I heard him say: “This matter will not end until there have been among them twelve caliphs.” Then he said something that I could not hear, and I said to my father: What did he say? He said: “All of them will be from Quraysh.”

What about this hadith?

here the prophet (peace be upon him ) predicted their will be a number of caliphas after him

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet (ﷺ) said, “The Israelis used to be ruled and guided by prophets: Whenever a prophet died, another would take over his place. There will be no prophet after me, but there will be Caliphs who will increase in number.” The people asked, “O Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ)! What do you order us (to do)?” He said, “Obey the one who will be given the pledge of allegiance first. Fulfil their (i.e. the Caliphs) rights, for Allah will ask them about (any shortcoming) in ruling those Allah has put under their guardianship.” [Sahih al-Bukhari 3455]

now when you read the above hadith and come across hadiths such as the one below

Safinah reported the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) as saying: The caliphate of Prophecy will last thirty years; then Allah will give the Kingdom to whom he wishes; or his kingdom to whom he wishes.

someone would say "This matter will not end until there have been among them twelve caliphs" and "The caliphate of Prophecy will last thirty years;" is referring to righteous rulers

but 30 years (gonna need to finalize this but pretty sure) equals to the first 4 calipha's then when we add the mahdi's rulership

Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri:

The Prophet (ﷺ) said: The Mahdi will be of my stock, and will have a broad forehead a prominent nose. He will fill the earth will equity and justice as it was filled with oppression and tyranny, and he will rule for seven years.

حَدَّثَنَا سَهْلُ بْنُ تَمَّامِ بْنِ بَزِيعٍ، حَدَّثَنَا عِمْرَانُ الْقَطَّانُ، عَنْ قَتَادَةَ، عَنْ أَبِي نَضْرَةَ، عَنْ أَبِي سَعِيدٍ الْخُدْرِيِّ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ الْمَهْدِيُّ مِنِّي أَجْلَى الْجَبْهَةِ أَقْنَى الأَنْفِ يَمْلأُ الأَرْضَ قِسْطًا وَعَدْلاً كَمَا مُلِئَتْ جَوْرًا وَظُلْمًا يَمْلِكُ سَبْعَ سِنِينَ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Grade:

Hasan (Al-Albani)

i also came across this not sure on validity

Ibn Al Jawzī has written in his book, Al Wafā: ‘Abdullāh ibn ‘Amr reported, “Allāh’s Messenger (peace and blessings upon him) mentioned,

“ʿĪsā ibn Maryam (peace and blessings upon him) will descend to the earth. He will get married and have children. He will remain in the world for 45 years. Thereafter he will pass away and will be buried with me in my grave.”
(Al Wafā) And Allāh Knows Best.

would go wayyy past 30 years, not to mention some of the most influential muslim rulers would not be included in this,

(mamluks defeating mongols, ottoman bringing islam to europe , sallahudeen taking back jerusalem and many more rulers would be disqualified)

and finaly
"All of them will be from Quraysh.” wouldnt this disqualify isa (as) , if we are to take the strict position (only quraysh can be rulers) why doesnt the mahdi who is from the ahlul bayt rule over isa(as) astagfirullah, this alone disproves all claims some brothers make

 

[Al hashimi]

Quraysh have to lead

 

[Al hashimi]

The view of the Khawarij was that anyone could lead

 

[Al hashimi]

https://islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/11747

 

[Burqad]

Yes it is that is why Somalia is doomed whenever we have a non-jeberti or isaaq leader

 

[bigdogg]

The view of the Khawarij was that anyone could lead

have you not read anything i posted ?? and no not all of the khawarijj believes that , i?s"s (that group in syria) their leader claimed to be from quraysh if i am not mistaken,

Quraysh have to lead

the question wasnt if they should lead (which i agree , if there are 2 men of equal suitabitiliy the one who is quraysh should be chosen, but if the people choose the non quraish we should obey

‘Arfajah (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) said: "If someone comes to you seeking to undermine your solidarity or disrupt your unity when you have agreed on a man (as your leader), kill him."
Sahih/Authentic. - [Muslim]


i have given multiple proofs above and have yet to find anyone who could disprove all of them

 

[Heavy Mountains]

Or Quranist Kafir

Yaab! Quranist are not disbelievers, they believe in Allah and follow the Quran.

 

[Al hashimi]

have you not read anything i posted ?? and no not all of the khawarijj believes that , i?s"s (that group in syria) their leader claimed to be from quraysh if i am not mistaken,



the question wasnt if they should lead (which i agree , if there are 2 men of equal suitabitiliy the one who is quraysh should be chosen, but if the people choose the non quraish we should obey

‘Arfajah (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) said: "If someone comes to you seeking to undermine your solidarity or disrupt your unity when you have agreed on a man (as your leader), kill him."
Sahih/Authentic. - [Muslim]


i have given multiple proofs above and have yet to find anyone who could disprove all of them

I’m referring to the early khawarij who emerged after the death of prophet Muhammad SAW

 

[Som]

I've heard people saying it was because back in the days of the prophet (saws) Quraysh were the most powerful tribe and so the most likely to be accepted as rulers. Today this is not the case. Many Arabs have almost forgotten their tribal affiliations and Quraysh are not in any way different from other Muslims.