Looking for Research Data on a clan fight in 2004.

[Grant]

https://politicalscience.stanford.edu/people/david-d-laitin

David Laitin was in the last (Somali9) PCV group, in 1969. He is a Polysci professor at Stanford and is looking for any information available on a clan fight in about 2004. He describes it as ..."a battle, claiming about 90 lives, between reer Ahmad (Hawiye) vs. two Marehan sub-clans (reer Hasan and Habar Ya'qub)." Does anyone know where this was fought? Somalia, Kenya, Ethiiopia? or on both sides of any borders? What is the background to the fight? Results?

There is an opportunity here to inform a scholarly debate. David is a mover and a shaker. I will forward any answers, xenophobic comments not so much.

1. Response To David Laitin’s Reflections On Clan Cleansing In ...
   
   
   sites.tufts.edu/wpf/response-to-david-laitins...
   David Laitin’s reflections on Clan Cleansing in Somalia: The Ruinous Turn of 1991 (2013) open up welcome space for further debate about Somali civil war violence in 1991-1992. The strengths Laitinhighlights are considerable and include “the historical truth about responsibility” and the ...
   
   
2. Somalia: nation in search of a state - David D. Laitin, Said ...
   
   • books.google.com
   • › History
   • › Africa
   • › East
   David D. Laitin, Said S ... Somali economy Somali government Somali history Somali language Somali leaders Somali ... Africa / East History / Africa / General Somalia :
   
   
3. Stanford Professor David Laitin Donates Collection on Somalia
   
   
   www.hoover.org/news/stanford-professor-david...
   The David D. Laitin Papers contain writings, correspondence, and printed matter relating to the history, language, and political and social conditions in Somalia in particular and the Horn of Africa in general. Included is a nearly complete run of the rare STORM (Somali, Tigray & Oromo Resistance ...
   
   
4. DAVID D. LAITIN - Stanford University
   
   
   web.stanford.edu/group/laitin_research/cgi-bin/...
   DAVID D. LAITIN Born: 4 June ... The Mary Parker Follett Prize for the best article on politics and history from the Politics and ... ^Debate on David Laitin ...
   

 

[Cumar]

@nine @Sheikh u guys think u can help @Grant out?

 

[Suhaib]

reer ahmad? what Hawiye clan do they belong to?

 

[Cotton Eyed Joe]

I have never heard of reer Ahmad of Hawiye but I suspect it's Degoodi v Marehan in Liibaan zone, Somali region of Ethiopia given the Marehan subclans you mentioned.

 

[Grant]

I have never heard of reer Ahmad of Hawiye but I suspect it's Degoodi v Marehan in Liibaan zone, Somali region of Ethiopia given the Marehan subclans you mentioned.

Thanks, Joe. That's what he wanted to know. He was thinking the battle could have been south of Kismayu, and didn't know the subclan distribution. He had also never previously heard of reer Ahmad of Hawiye. It was from something he read. He was wondering if those subclans had joined Barre's forces that went south. I'm not sure how the Hawiye figured in the original story. He was also puzzled.

Also, thanks to the Mod.

 

[Wardheere]

reer ahmad? what Hawiye clan do they belong to?

Reer Ahmad are also Marehan. I know the fight was long one. Its fought in the area of Beled Hawa mandera and ethiopia.

 

[Wardheere]

The fight started with Horaarsame and Reer Ahmed and then other clans joined in on either side.

I dont want to give more than that.

If this professor goes to Beled Hawa he will get all the information of that war.

 

[Grant]

The fight started with Horaarsame and Reer Ahmed and then other clans joined in on either side.

I dont want to give more than that.

If this professor goes to Beled Hawa he will get all the information of that war.

Thank you, Sir.

I found this. Does it look like it connects?

http://www.refworld.org/docid/3f7d4e1f23.html

'The Marehan is reportedly the predominant clan in Gedo (IRIN 26 Apr. 2002). Marehan is a sub clan of the Darod (AFP 25 Jan. 2001). The fighting is reportedly "between an alliance of the Marehan subclans of Rer Hasan, Hawarsame and Habar Ya'qub, which are supported by the opposition Somali Reconciliation and Restoration Council (SRRC), and other Marehan subclans sympathetic to the Transitional National Government (TNG)" (RIN 26 Apr. 2002), in particular the Juba Valley Alliance (ibid. 18 Apr. 2002)."

 

[TekNiKo]

Hmm CIA collecting info on intra Marehan wars. Very weird.

 

[Luna]

Hmm CIA collecting info on intra Marehan wars. Very weird.

Exactly. What use is there for this information??

 

[Grant]

Exactly. What use is there for this information??

It may or may not be significant. Dr Laitin is following up a lead. Should the answers from here become clear, credible and significant to him, he might include them in a book or article meant to inform his readers about the politics and history of the region. See the links in the OP for his most significant previous works. He's entirely respectable. As full Professor of Political Science at Stanford since 1999, and a specialist in the area, his opinion carries some weight in forming government policy and scholarly opinion.

This is a fact-finding mission. Don't worry. He's not going to take anything we say here at face value. This is just the beginning of a process. You can read the OP links for previous results.

You might be interested to know he taught at the National Teacher Education Center in Afgoye in 1969.

 

[Wardheere]

It may or may not be significant. Dr Laitin is following up a lead. Should the answers from here become clear, credible and significant to him, he might include them in a book or article meant to inform his readers about the politics and history of the region. See the links in the OP for his most significant previous works. He's entirely respectable. As full Professor of Political Science at Stanford since 1999, and a specialist in the area, his opinion carries some weight in forming government policy and scholarly opinion.

This is a fact-finding mission. Don't worry. He's not going to take anything we say here at face value. This is just the beginning of a process. You can read the OP links for previous results.

You might be interested to know he taught at the National Teacher Education Center in Afgoye in 1969.

I dont think he will ever write any thing respectable and unbiased.

 

[Grant]

I dont think he will ever write any thing respectable and unbiased.

I disagree and thank you for your contribution. Your comments seem to be key. The only reassurance I can offer is that, IMO, Dr Laitin does not have a dog in this fight. I encourage you to read his previous work and check out his 17 page curriculum vitae.

https://web.stanford.edu/group/lait...t/uploads/2016/01/CV_Laitin_November_2015.pdf

 

[Grant]

Thank you, Sir.

I found this. Does it look like it connects?

http://www.refworld.org/docid/3f7d4e1f23.html

'The Marehan is reportedly the predominant clan in Gedo (IRIN 26 Apr. 2002). Marehan is a sub clan of the Darod (AFP 25 Jan. 2001). The fighting is reportedly "between an alliance of the Marehan subclans of Rer Hasan, Hawarsame and Habar Ya'qub, which are supported by the opposition Somali Reconciliation and Restoration Council (SRRC), and other Marehan subclans sympathetic to the Transitional National Government (TNG)" (RIN 26 Apr. 2002), in particular the Juba Valley Alliance (ibid. 18 Apr. 2002)."

This rehashes a very confusing period and seems to complete the picture. The Marehaan subclans were split between the JVA (TFG ally) and the SRRC (opposed to the TFG).

https://www.revolvy.com/topic/Juba-Valley-Alliance

"...the area known as Jubaland.

Following the breakdown of central authority in the Somali Civil War, General Hersi "Morgan" declared Jubaland independent on September 3, 1998.[2]

Opponents to General "Morgan" came from the Somali Marehan, Ogadeniand Warsangeli ethnic groups. The Marehan Somali National Front (SNF) and other tribal allies grouped together as the Allied Somali Forces (ASF). They ousted General "Morgan" from Kismayu in June 1999.[3]

The ASF administration renamed itself the Juba Valley Alliance in June 2001, and threw its support behind the Transitional Federal Government(TFG).[4] The leader of the JVA is Colonel Barre Adan Shire Hiiraale, who later became Defense Minister for the TFG. The militia commander of the JVA is Col. Abdulahi Sheik Ismael Fara-Tag.

On June 18, 2001, an 11-member interclan council decided to ally the JVA with the newly establishing Transitional Federal Government.[5]

On August 6, 2001, after 10 days of heavy fighting in a battle involving 40 technicals and 1,000 militiamen, the JVA took the town of Jilib from the SRRC.[6]

In 2002, the JVA battled with the Somali Reconciliation and Restoration Council (SRRC), which opposed the TFG, resulting in 6,000 refugees fleeing Bulo Hawa. In 2003, there were 15,000 internally displaced persons (IDPs) accommodated in Kismayo. Fighting throughout southern and central Somalia resulted in 86,000 IDPs by 2004.[7] Landmines were cited as a problem affecting the area due to the fighting between the JVA and SRRC.[8]

War in Somalia
The JVA suffered the loss of Kismayo in September 2006 to an array of ICU forces with 130 technicals,[9][10] and further defeat during Islamic Court Union's takeover of the Juba Valley in October 2006,[11]"

On September 23, ICU forces under Sheik Hassan Abdullah Hersi al-Turkiapproached Jilib, en route to Kismayo. Juba Valley Alliance forces withdrew without a fight.[12] After the city fell, on September 24, he promised peace to the city after Islamic militiamen broke up an anti-Islamist demonstration with gunfire, killing three teenagers.[13] On October 3, they took Afmadow.[14] Sakow fell to the ICU on October 25–28 after they militarily defeated the Juba Valley Alliance.[15] By December 13, Salagle also fell to them.[16] The city of Baardhere in Gedo region, was the last sought after prize by the ICU but the population there refused them to achieve that goal. Barderians being part of the larger Juba region, the population in Gedo and Bardera in particular, disliked the ICU and its attack on Kismayo. ICU's total control of southern Somalia became impossible at this point. All sides, JVA, ICU and the powerless TGF regrouped and established new alliances and new fronts.

After the Battle of Baidoa (December 20–26), the JVA began to reassert control over the Juba Valley. On December 27, the ICU abandoned its positions in the Juba Valley at Salagle and Sakow, north of Bu'aale.[17]

ICU forces in Kismayo were reported retreating towards Mogadishu, and TFG forces were advancing towards Bu'uale from Dinsoor, while the rest of the Lower and Middle Juba areas were calm.[18] However, no sooner had ICU forces from Kismayo gotten to Mogadishu than they reversed direction, withdrawing back to Kismayo. After their defeat at the Battle of Jilib north of the city, the ICU forces withdrew, and on January 1, 2007, Kismayo fell to the TFG and Ethiopian forces without armed conflict.

Considering the integral part the JVA plays in the TFG's military, it could be said that the JVA has been succeeded by, or incorporated into, the army of the nascent TFG.

The ICU choked the economy of Somalia by putting all resources on the hands of a selected few. Although the mistakes of the ICU were many, the economy factor, the attack of Kismayo and the murdering of the bed-ridden JVA fighters who were at the Bu'ale Hospital hastened the fall of the ICU phenomenon in Somali politics of the recent years.[19]"