mogadishu Name origin and first settler

[niggaibnh]

One is claiming the name origin is Persian and the Persian was the first settler while the other is saying Somalis was the first settler.

If Persian was the first then how come there isn’t somali person who has Persian dna or haplogroup. It’s either Madow, arab or Somali.

The Arabs have more claims the Persian to be fair.

@Shimbiris @killerxsmoke @The alchemist
Thoughts?

 

[The alchemist]

Yes. Persians came, built the large urban city in 60 years, gave the keys to Somalis, packed up, and jumped ship. Right after, Ibn Battuta came to a buzzing rich metropolis even for his world-traveling standards. But wait.. no Persians in sight and Somalis in control, fully integrated, established, and part and parcel of it all.

That's what we call a legit story, bro.

People read stuff without processing anything. They would say, "See, a Persian came flying on a magic carpet at that date and established the city. It's here on texts," without questioning how that does not fit into reality.

The Swahili claim is not even worth responding to. No one has time to play silly semantical word games like a child wasting grown people's time. Even Egypt-obsessed Blacks have countless coincidences they can match and build a narrative around. You can't entertain everything. The opponent has to show some level of intelligibility where there is a common ground of respect for inference and basic sense to accept a better explanation. To start, one should initially gauge the level of loaded presuppositions. If the person is sincere and just uninformed, then sure. It's a waste to engage ideologically driven people. You're not engaging ideas but their insistence on forcing something no matter how desperate and low.

Why are people obsessed with attributing Somali history to foreign non-Somali elements and the origin of any geographic and structural capacity? It's interesting. If those cities were not significant, no one would have cared at all. But now you have random social-media users that find some silly obscure text that make incoherent claims that are factually irrational with the backdrop of everything we know and can prove but still hold that little text above anything else. I find it amazing how it all relies on the ignorance of European and other biased writers that obscured info with their impartial drives, making a silly exception that overrides everything. This is Hotep level.

But do you know what is at the heart of it? It is the belief that Somalis are some backward people that could never build or maintain anything that requires organizational capacity. Those people are so sure of that, that it drives their motivation. If they try hard enough, they will uncover it. That is at the back of their heads. So they stoop so low in the most undignifying confirmation bias quest. It is so apparent. Let me tell you a fact, if they believed us to be capable, we would have another conversation, or better yet, not a conversation at all. And that goes for Somalis too. We see those individuals that constantly give the same type of foreign attribution. It comes from self-hatred and low ethnic esteem. That simple.

So ask me again, why should ajnabi and their Somali lapdog deserve our effort wasted on lowlife objectives? I don't need to defend or prove anything when everything worth discussing is substantiated. Notice how modern academics don't take these positions anymore. They stopped because they recognized the fraudulent track record of their disciplinary predecessors, too embarrassed to address the apparent garbage they threw around (strangely hands-off this age, aren't they?). The only area where the bullshit persisted was the history north of that and into Ethiopia. But that is now getting put right.

The only thing we need to do is, write our pieces for us on rigorous and respectable grounds, and that is it, create an informative milieu for our collective value orientation. Anything else has to bend to that, and there is no other conversation.

 

[JackieBurkhart]

This has already been debunked several times. Stop bringing this up.

 

[Wild daisy 💐🌻💮]

Mog-sight-dishu-killer what does he mean evidence when the words are somali like we can clearly see the meaning of the name.

 

[DALMAR0_0]

Mog-sight-dishu-killer what does he mean evidence when the words are somali like we can clearly see the meaning of the name.

Ur correct but its muuqdisho (muuq=sight not mog ) Mogadishu is how non somalis spell it or pronounce

 

[Somali_patriotic]

This has already been debunked several times. Stop bringing this up.

Send threads brudda

 

[Zak12]

The Shingani stuff he mentions is interesting. Can anyone verify that?

 

[Nin123]

One is claiming the name origin is Persian and the Persian was the first settler while the other is saying Somalis was the first settler.

If Persian was the first then how come there isn’t somali person who has Persian dna or haplogroup. It’s either Madow, arab or Somali.

The Arabs have more claims the Persian to be fair.

@Shimbiris @killerxsmoke @The alchemist
Thoughts?

He is right muqadishu means sight killer
Muq= sight
Dishu= killer
It’s In our language and they still dare to call it the seat of Persian or some Iranian nonsense.

 

[Idilinaa]

Gave my own assessment before in another thread. About the name Mogadishu and others it sits on the wider Somali naming conventions for ports and cities.

Tbh i think it would be far more accurate to say that we don't know what the etyomology is. It might just be an archaic name part of some ancient linguistic strata .

But thats a loan word through Arabic not directly from Persians. Bandar is commonly used by Arabs to refer to a port or port city. Another example is Somalis use of ''Ras'' , which is Arabic name for cape.

Plus at the same time it's worth considering that a lot of towns can change either in name or have different names and in the Majerteen coast for example there is local formal names for towns like Bandar Qasim as Bosaso, Bandar Kor as Qandala, Bandar Siyada as Qaw etc etc. The former it's mostly popularized by foreign merchants.

Similar to how the original formal name for Mogadishu was Xamar but the name Mogadishu was mostly popularized by Muslim Immigrants and visitors. Zayla --->> Awdal is another one.

Hope that gives you all a better understanding.

The Shingani stuff he mentions is interesting. Can anyone verify that?

The name Shingani is actually very recent name, certain migrants referred to the district as then popularized by Italians. Before the Italians came it was occupied various Somali clans, and had Yacqub Imam as a ruler.

The original names of Mogadishu old quarters are not Known. it originally had 4 districts , only 2 quarters are around Xamarweyne (Large Mogadishu the bigger district) and Shangani aren't the original names but something people come to refer to them by

You can tell by how they refer to the large older abandoned quarters as Xamar Jajab (Broken Mogadishu in Somali).

 

[Zak12]

The name Shingani is actually very recent name,

What of the gravesites and inscriptions? Apparently there is the name of a Persian called Al-Shirazi which is the oldest gravesite in the city

 

[Idilinaa]

What of the gravesites and inscriptions? Apparently there is the name of a Persian called Al-Shirazi which is the oldest gravesite in the city

View attachment 344708

Yeah they are foreign visitors and merchants that died in a town known for commerce and tradee. Thats why they carry the'' Nisba'' Al-Shirazi, al-Hijaz, al-Naysaburi etc to show where they migrated from, they are not from Mogadishu.

They are not the oldest at all. There are graves that date back to 720s

Whereas the graves with the nisba's all date from the 13th century btw while try to claim them to be from the 10th century lool and Mogadishu is mentioned as a fully formed fledged town before that and with natives that emigrated from it wearing the name Al-Maqdishi being present in the middle east around in the 12th century, along Somali graves from the 12th/13th century with nisba al-zayla'i and al-jabarti in Hijaz and Yemen. So its something that worked the other way around as well

Also at the same time there are various other medieval graves with names inscribed in them in Mogadishu like the ones i mentioned before and they don't carry a nisba because they are local Somalis and some even use Somali calendar names

I shared an example of one in another thread :

And Somali calendar names are seen on medieval tomb inscriptions in Mogadishu that date from year 1365 It is something pointed out by an Italian writer named Enrico Cerulli:

On another tomb of this group we read The weak hopeful servant and forgiveness of his gracious Lord, the Hagg Yusuf Ibn Abu Bakr Ibn Hagg Da'ud, died on the fourth Monday of the month of du al-higgah of the year Saturday after seven hundred and sixty-six years from the Hegira of the Prophet. God's blessings be on the Prophet. Corresponds to! 22 August 1365.

The inscription is particularly important, as it counts the first mention of the Somali year in use alongside the Muslim year also in the coastal centers. With <the year Saturday> we mean the first year of the Somali seven-year cycle. of the inscription and from referring to meaning by the Prophet, as in the inscription n. X. It should be noted that a similar expression can also be found in an Arabic text from East Africa, published by Becker who says verbatim speaking of a Muslim saint

 

[Midas]

Yeah they are foreign visitors and merchants that died in a town known for commerce and tradee. Thats why they carry the'' Nisba'' Al-Shirazi, al-Hijaz, al-Naysaburi etc to show where they migrated from, they are not from Mogadishu.

They are not the oldest at all. There are graves that date back to 720s

Whereas the graves with the nisba's all date from the 13th century btw while try to claim them to be from the 10th century lool and Mogadishu is mentioned as a fully formed fledged town before that and with natives that emigrated from it wearing the name Al-Maqdishi being present in the middle east around in the 12th century, along Somali graves from the 12th/13th century with nisba al-zayla'i and al-jabarti in Hijaz and Yemen. So its something that worked the other way around as well

Also at the same time there are various other medieval graves with names inscribed in them in Mogadishu like the ones i mentioned before and they don't carry a nisba because they are local Somalis and some even use Somali calendar names

I shared an example of one in another thread :

Wow I didn't know there were inscriptions dating to the early 8th century in Mogadishu and multiple ones at that. That's rare even in the Arabian penisula. You probably can't find any inscription that old in north africa at all. It honestly makes the library of congress lecture by mukhtar look even more ridculous. The fact that as an academic he couldn't even do his due diligence and look at the sources.

 

[Idilinaa]

Wow I didn't know there were inscriptions dating to the early 8th century in Mogadishu and multiple ones at that. That's rare even in the Arabian penisula. You probably can't find any inscription that old in north africa at all. It honestly makes the library of congress lecture by mukhtar look even more ridculous. The fact that as an academic he couldn't even do his due diligence and look at the sources.

There is probably more stuff we can discover that's not damaged or fully destroyed, because some of the ruins and graveyards are covered in mass of sand dunes that took 5 days to remove and dig out. They only dug 1 trench in Hamar Jajab.

 

[Midas]

I just did some Google search on arabic insciriptons and it seems likely that outside of eygpt somalia has the oldest arabic insciriptons in africa. Even the dalaka archipelago only has inscriptions dating backing to the 10th century.

 

[Burqad]

Xamar was multiple towns that merged together into a city

 

[Zak12]

Xamar was multiple towns that merged together into a city

Was Sarapion one of those towns?

 

[Burqad]

Was Sarapion one of those towns?

no the site of Sarapion was a little south, near Gezeira.

See

https://arcadia.sba.uniroma3.it/bitstream/2307/5689/1/The%20Origins%20and%20Development%20of%20Mogadishu%20AD%201000%20to%201850.pdf