Nilotic FKD

[Garaad Awal]

@Nilotic @Nilo-Saharan Whats the history of the beefs between the four ethnic groups mentioned? Who are the original people of South Sudan and Gambella region?

 

[wonyluvr]

Let me explain Anyuak believe that Gambella belongs to them and Nuer are refugees

 

[Nilotic]

The Dinka did migrate into Bahr El Ghazal from the Gezira (North Sudan) in the 13th and 15th Centuries; we found the Luo there and displaced them

That part is true

The Luo themselves left the Gezira and migrated into South Sudan (centuries before the Dinka) and took that very same land from other groups that lived there

As for the original people of Ethiopia nonsense:

None of the Nilotic groups are indigenous to Gambella; Nilotic groups only moved into Gambella a couple of centuries ago.

The Anyuak arrived in Gambella first; and the Nuer followed and have been encroaching on Anyuak lands for well over a century.

 

[mizuu67]

The Dinka did migrate into Bahr El Ghazal from the Gezira (North Sudan) in the 13th and 15th Centuries; we found the Luo there and displaced them

That part is true

The Luo themselves left the Gezira and migrated into South Sudan (centuries before the Dinka) and took that very same land from other groups that lived there

As for the original people of Ethiopia nonsense:

None of the Nilotic groups are indigenous to Gambella; Nilotic groups only moved into Gambella a couple of centuries ago.

The Anyuak arrived in Gambella first; and the Nuer followed and have been encroaching on Anyuak lands for well over a century.

Sorry kind of out of topic but what do you think of Proto western Nilotic originatimg in the Blue nile state of north Sudan? doesnt that go against the gezira origin for dinka? maybe the dinka could have backmigrated north before going south yet again?. oh and heres a map of the country before the nilotic expansion, pretty interesting (looks like the csntral swamp was empty of humans). looks like southern cushitic speakers could have lived in parts of south sudan due to the cushitic loanwords in the surmic and kuliak languages.

 

[Nilotic]

Sorry kind of out of topic but what do you think of Proto western Nilotic originatimg in the Blue nile state of north Sudan? doesnt that go against the gezira origin for dinka? maybe the dinka could have backmigrated north before going south yet again?. oh and heres a map of the country before the nilotic expansion, pretty interesting (looks like the csntral swamp was empty of humans). looks like southern cushitic speakers could have lived in parts of south sudan due to the cushitic loanwords in the surmic and kuliak languages.

It's certainly possible that Blue Nile was the genesis and that the ancestors of the Dinka-Nuer and Luo then moved into the Gezira. I've always read that the Gezira was the birthplace of the Nilotes, but I can't entirely discount Blue Nile

The Burun seem to have a very pronounced connection with the Luo, so it's possible that the Dinka, Nuer and Luo used to reside in Blue Nile alongside that particular branch of Nilotic.

The Surmic groups (related to Nilotic) only recently migrated into South Sudan from Ethiopia, so that likely explains the Cushitic loan words in their languages.

 

[Aurelian]

The name of the account is funny

 

[Burqad]

It's certainly possible that Blue Nile was the genesis and that the ancestors of the Dinka-Nuer and Luo then moved into the Gezira. I've always read that the Gezira was the birthplace of the Nilotes, but I can't entirely discount Blue Nile

The Burun seem to have a very pronounced connection with the Luo, so it's possible that the Dinka, Nuer and Luo used to reside in Blue Nile alongside that particular branch of Nilotic.

The Surmic groups (related to Nilotic) only recently migrated into South Sudan from Ethiopia, so that likely explains the Cushitic loan words in their languages.

Weren’t the Funj tribe who Arabized and Islamized northern Sudan Nilotic?

 

[Nilotic]

Weren’t the Funj tribe who Arabized and Islamized northern Sudan Nilotic?

That seems to be the case, however, I can't be certain on this.

 

[mizuu67]

It's certainly possible that Blue Nile was the genesis and that the ancestors of the Dinka-Nuer and Luo then moved into the Gezira. I've always read that the Gezira was the birthplace of the Nilotes, but I can't entirely discount Blue Nile

The Burun seem to have a very pronounced connection with the Luo, so it's possible that the Dinka, Nuer and Luo used to reside in Blue Nile alongside that particular branch of Nilotic.

The Surmic groups (related to Nilotic) only recently migrated into South Sudan from Ethiopia, so that likely explains the Cushitic loan words in their languages.

This paper says they started in the gezira where burun tribe lives, so that means blue nile is part of the gezira? Also interestingly there were people living in south sudan that were significantly lighter skinned than the nilotes to the point where dinka called them "red skinned". paper says they were probably related to northern sudan tribes but also says they were probably central sudanic speakers (i thought central sudanics had the same dark skin tone/phenotype as nilotic speakers??)

 

[mizuu67]

Weren’t the Funj tribe who Arabized and Islamized northern Sudan Nilotic?

Maybe they were. Some dinka were assimilated into the funj. and other northern sudanese tribes claim connection with the dinka and shilluk tribes.

 

[Burqad]

Maybe they were. Some dinka were assimilated into the funj. and other northern sudanese tribes claim connection with the dinka and shilluk tribes.

Would be so funny if the Funj were related to the dinka and nuers lol.

 

[Nilotic]

This paper says they started in the gezira where burun tribe lives, so that means blue nile is part of the gezira? Also interestingly there were people living in south sudan that were significantly lighter skinned than the nilotes to the point where dinka called them "red skinned". paper says they were probably related to northern sudan tribes but also says they were probably central sudanic speakers (i thought central sudanics had the same dark skin tone/phenotype as nilotic speakers??)

The Gezira may actually be applied to a wider region than I originally thought; the Gezira seems to be the point of origin.

The Central Sudanics (especially in Western Bahr el Ghazal) are significantly lighter than the Nilotes, so they're likely the light-skinned population that was referenced.

 

[Nin123]

The Dinka did migrate into Bahr El Ghazal from the Gezira (North Sudan) in the 13th and 15th Centuries; we found the Luo there and displaced them

That part is true

The Luo themselves left the Gezira and migrated into South Sudan (centuries before the Dinka) and took that very same land from other groups that lived there

As for the original people of Ethiopia nonsense:

None of the Nilotic groups are indigenous to Gambella; Nilotic groups only moved into Gambella a couple of centuries ago.

The Anyuak arrived in Gambella first; and the Nuer followed and have been encroaching on Anyuak lands for well over a century.

Lou, Dinka and all Nilotic people originated from Mesopotamia or Iraq. You are black Arab mr @Nilotic

 

[mizuu67]

The Gezira may actually be applied to a wider region than I originally thought; the Gezira seems to be the point of origin.

The Central Sudanics (especially in Western Bahr el Ghazal) are significantly lighter than the Nilotes, so they're likely the light-skinned population that was referenced.

Thats probably because of mixing with ubangians (niger congo speakers) like azande or Banda who migrated from Central african republic. theres only 2-3 central sudanics tribes there, most tribes in west bahr gazel are nigercongo speakers. The normal central sudanics in equatoria (their proto homeland) and north uganda are the same skintone as nilotes.

 

[mizuu67]

When ethiopia falls into civil war and breaks apart the tribal wars will be huge (darfur level). I wonder if the nuer/Anyuak will try to join S. Sudan to join their kin

 

[Nilotic]

When ethiopia falls into civil war and breaks apart the tribal wars will be huge (darfur level). I wonder if the nuer/Anyuak will try to join S. Sudan to join their kin

They would undoubtedly attempt to join South Sudan in such an event; in either case, I don't want Ethiopia to disintegrate -- especially since the consequences would be grave for the region

 

[Bior]

Sorry kind of out of topic but what do you think of Proto western Nilotic originatimg in the Blue nile state of north Sudan? doesnt that go against the gezira origin for dinka? maybe the dinka could have backmigrated north before going south yet again?.

it's an older theory of nilote migration. Most of those movements in to South Sudan made by egret we speculated, you dint even have evidence for pastoalaism in southern Sudan until 500bc & those peoples were central sudanic speaking pastoralist living a few kilometers north of modern day juba. You dont even have evidence of nilotes until the mid 1st millennium a.d. And then Western nilotes seem to enter closer to 1000ad onwards.

this article actually discusses it all (archeology of South Sudan form 3000bc-1500ad) : https://eprints.soas.ac.uk/29511/1/10731667.pdf

The archeology of South Sudan seems pretty similar to that of Kenya and other southern East African countries ngl (minus the spn)

oh and heres a map of the country before the nilotic expansion, pretty interesting (looks like the csntral swamp was empty of humans).

its kinda funny cause it seems to me that ehret could tell that the Nilotic languages had a northern origin, so he just picked the location for teh northernmost nilotic speakrs (burun) and just placed their territory as our homeland, lol.

If you look in the other papers in the journal you'll actually see that and archeologist made a linguistic and archeological argument for an even more northernly origin of nilotic languages, noting a dialect chain diversifying in a southernly direction. He associated out ancestral populations with the site of Jebel Moya (which I half believe; I only really can see evidence for the meroitic period occupation of western nilotes there)

However a more recent theory (called the "Wadi Howar Diaspora") suggest that eastern sudanic languages can be associated with the Neolithic occupation for an extinct river known as teh yellow nile, where "proto eastern sudanic languages" were spoken and the diverged in to 3 groups, NES (Nubian, Nara, meroitic, + more) in teh middle wadi howar, nilotic and surmic in the lower wadi howar, and the rest of the grouse in teh upper wadi howar, the nilotic migrations would've looked more like this (from the lower wadi howar region)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/365615354_The_linguistic_prehistory_of_Nubia

 

[wonyluvr]

it's an older theory of nilote migration. Most of those movements in to South Sudan made by egret we speculated, you dint even have evidence for pastoalaism in southern Sudan until 500bc & those peoples were central sudanic speaking pastoralist living a few kilometers north of modern day juba. You dont even have evidence of nilotes until the mid 1st millennium a.d. And then Western nilotes seem to enter closer to 1000ad onwards.

this article actually discusses it all (archeology of South Sudan form 3000bc-1500ad) : https://eprints.soas.ac.uk/29511/1/10731667.pdf

The archeology of South Sudan seems pretty similar to that of Kenya and other southern East African countries ngl (minus the spn)


its kinda funny cause it seems to me that ehret could tell that the Nilotic languages had a northern origin, so he just picked the location for teh northernmost nilotic speakrs (burun) and just placed their territory as our homeland, lol.

If you look in the other papers in the journal you'll actually see that and archeologist made a linguistic and archeological argument for an even more northernly origin of nilotic languages, noting a dialect chain diversifying in a southernly direction. He associated out ancestral populations with the site of Jebel Moya (which I half believe; I only really can see evidence for the meroitic period occupation of western nilotes there)



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However a more recent theory (called the "Wadi Howar Diaspora") suggest that eastern sudanic languages can be associated with the Neolithic occupation for an extinct river known as teh yellow nile, where "proto eastern sudanic languages" were spoken and the diverged in to 3 groups, NES (Nubian, Nara, meroitic, + more) in teh middle wadi howar, nilotic and surmic in the lower wadi howar, and the rest of the grouse in teh upper wadi howar, the nilotic migrations would've looked more like this (from the lower wadi howar region)
View attachment 344306
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/365615354_The_linguistic_prehistory_of_Nubia

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I just got the notification right now and OMG it’s you I’ve watched your content before !!!

 

[Bior]

hey wsg, lol

I just got the notification right now and OMG it’s you I’ve watched your content before !!!

 

[wonyluvr]

hey wsg, lol

Welcome to sspot there’s a lot of mentally disturbed people on here watch out