Puntland Higher IQ Society

[Samaalism]

That was actually another reason why I thought Hawiye is epicenter of Somalia problem. They couldn't even agree on the irir pact and that broke down, they have no knowledge of honoring pacts and agreements and the only plausible explanation is they came out of the bush when Keenadiid came to them. Remember 300 years ago they destroyed they're last govt the ajuuraan, they had 91 exodus and went back living life with no govt, this flows well into why keenadiid came and saw nothing but naked people. Remember they were naked because 'intermarriage' didn't exist at all, they were treated like some 'non somali'.

If u look at MJ names intermarriage is seen with DIR clans so they are REAL SOMALIS, but the same cannot be said of this Hawiye when the evidences are observed. Why can't he honor a pact or agreement? he tried it with irir, he tried it with usc and it turned into 'caga barar' wars which is called the 4 month war, it led into warlord era where they had another pact of no side can form a govt and warlord activities began. Then as soon as the govt was encroaching they go and become terrorists now creating the maxkamad islamiyah and this flowed into shabab the era we are in now.

These niggas dont want a govt sxb, they think they live better without one. Which is true in terms of casualties there is less conflict in hawiye when there is no govt, i can provide real life evidence to that in 99 there wasn't a clan war beyond warlord skermishes of checkpoints(which was important to them since checkpoints provided extortion of vehicles) but they're real bread n butter was bakaraha markets and that was under HG control, the warlord era didn't benefit abgaal from what I saw and they started to lose out in it. HG is the problem and Murusade not abgaal, they get no benefit out of no govt in all honesty abgaalku. Hawiye believe dawladu dhib bay ku gaban beeshooda and hence believe in no govt brings less wars since there nothing to fight over. Look at GM/HS they find it easier living with no govt then making a govt cuz it leads to bloodshed in hawiye like 4 month war ama caga barar. U don't know hawiye like I do anay abti ii yihin, ana jecel inay wax noqdan lakin runtana lagama cararo

Sxb you can't come to PL with hawiye is good people, your argument is weak and ppl will say war naga tag waxba nooma kordhinaysid, waa inaad wax soo kordhisa beyond hawiye is good and isaaq waa is raca iyo irir bala samayna it's useless academic work waxani u cant be university student with that sort of level mind, GOD BLESS DAROD NO WONDER WE LEAD

The main problem for hawiye was usc didn’t have proper institutions and was just a clan militia. The snm had a guurti and elections for the leader which meant in 91 abdirahman tuur went straight in as the leader of isaaq while usc had many leaders. That’s why ali Mahdi and Caydiid had a problem they both thought they were the leader. Also snm had a mandate and was going to be dispanded 3 years after the ousting of barre that was already agreed upon.

The second reason why Somaliland ended up peaceful was we had an excellent statesman in cigaal. Due to the snm being in guutoyin qabil (which had its benefits as if guto didn’t perform its job it would mean the clan is guun that’s why snm done so many suicide missions.) it meant the snm militia men were more loyal to there commanders than the leader of snm or president of Somaliland. This was khatar weyn to nabadgelyada. The first thing cigaal done was apeal to beelaha darafyada who saw him as one of the old politicians from dowlada rayidka and saw what was going on in the south and how armed the snm were and were afraid of genocide. He had all there oday daqameed in his back pocket. He also had the full control of his habar awal clan which is one of the two laandheer isaaq clans the other being garxajis. Another group who was crucial was arap who are not one of the landheer but are vital to securing power and are laangaab go ah. After that he was able to secure HJ because habar Yonis have always historically karbashed them.

The main issue was how to disarm habar Yonis who were one of the two main laandheers and won’t accept anything but then ruling. They didn’t mind democracy as long as they are voted for you get me. Sheekadoda wuxu aha anaga soo talinjirnay. They had hundreds of tekinos tanks and apcs and that’s when the garxajis maryalool war started were garxajis were karbashed by the rest of Somaliland clans.

During this time cigaal was completely dismembering the snm power structure while people were busy with war. He was taking the commanders from the clans he had and making them politicians and putting new people as commanders and mixing the cidaan. He had most of the daqaalo because of berbera port and airport hargeisa and its airport tog wajaale custom and lawyacaado custom so it was easy to manipulate people.

Markay garxajis so jabeen instead of alienating them he kicked out all habar awal And habar jeclo from vital positions and brought garxajis into the gov. You can go on YouTube and see muse bixi and co calaacaling about cigaal on YouTube in the 90s they were made powerless. Then done the same thing to garxajis gave important people gov positions broke the structure of there faction. He send there biggest commander ahmed mire who captured burco in 88 30k and sent him to the uk. And that’s how the snm was destroyed.

Personally I don’t think cigaal was even a sucessionist but was building something to bring to the table when he came to xamar but just ended up having an unexpected death.

Hawiye needed a politician like that and tbh they gone one in sheekh sharif. tHe only way to unite them at that point was Islam seeing as how bad things were. Personally I think he would of purged the extremists eventually but puntland took the opportunity to try to destroy hawiye with the xabashis.

The problems in Somaliland now stem from muse bixi not respecting the clan elders and paying them for their job. No matter how you cut it and slice it they’re the only ones that can calm down a tribe and should be paid so cutting of their money is ganna cause problems in SL. He thinks he’s siad barre.

The British new exactly how to deal with somalis. You have to appeal to there superiority. If you make a Somali feel guun he will destroy the country. That was siad barres main mistake. There was another quote from the British in Kenya they would regularly imprison Bantus but only fine somalis as a Somali will die in jail. I think our egos are tied to our health. That’s why we haven’t compromised in 30 years and would rather a failed state then be ruled over.

Somalia needs a waya arag philosopher to fix it who has studied state building and social engineering. Some who’s studied the works of the East Indian company and how they established there colonies in hostile territory will know How to fix this shit. As long as we are all qabils and don’t have a national identity we can all be proud of we will be a failed state.

 

[Rationale]

His data point for an era as far as I am concerned and cannot be ignored, I wasn't alive in that 1960-1991 era. I am not saying how he describes events are 100% factual, it's a data point, if you can provide a data point evidence to contradict it, we can then apply the objective scientific method and look for evidence who's view point is correct. For example my dad says hawiye wa caawaan. U think I accepted that immediately? of course not, I just thought he was being insulting like Somalis are. I then saw the VIEW POINT he has correlate with the evidences of hawiye history. Hawiye destroyed Ajuuraan and then spend centuries living wild till colonials, they destroyed the somali govt in 91 also showing more correlation of being a clan who enjoys destruction. I saw correlation GM/HS is basically no govt and looks worse then PL in 92 era. I saw correlations hawiye agreed to no side can form a govt pact in 94-2004 which is what warlord era. Do u want me to continue the evidences that supports the viewpoint hawiye are animals or are u just going to respond 'dr osman uses the argument of his father' to discredit me? I am prepared for a challenge, I want the right account of Somalia or else there is no point solving it but I dont have the right partners in Somalia. Hence me and @PhySom are going to join the PIM movement of @PuntiteQueen

You have compleatly ignored the geopolitics, demographics and the history of PL. It was and still is vast land that is empty and for the most part useless desert with one major highway and a port. Wax laga dagaaltamo maku yaalin. While South was a jewel every faction wanted.

I already explained to you why south couldn't achieve the ever lasting peace because no faction was strong enough to wipe all the other players from the game, wether it was natural( the 4 months truce) or artificial(foreign nations). For example the US peace mission in early 90s, the Ethiopian crack down on Xisbul Islam in Gedo in 1994. Or the Kenyan invasion of JL in 2011 or Ethiopian invasion of ICU in 2006. It's the same reason why JL is on turmoil and Kismaayo has seen so many conflicts through out the civil war.

When one faction wins and gains the upperhand in South peace comes naturally. Its just much more trickier to achieve that because there are so many clans and factions present there. Since 1991 only ICU manged to achieve this because it was based on an inclusive Ideology that every Somali could understand and relate to. Wax aan qabiil ka sugeenoneh ma'jirto. We are waiting for the next pan tribal ideology to take root in the south aka the next revolution.

You have decided to compleatly ignore the geopolitics, demographics and the history of the South so you could twist the reality into some racist and childish fantasy of your clans superiority.
And yet you come here to emphasize on the importance of science and factual data.

 

[DR OSMAN]

You have compleatly ignored the geopolitics, demographics and the history of PL. It was and still is vast land that is empty and for the most part useless desert with one major highway and a port. Wax laga dagaaltamo kuma yaalin. While South was a jewel every faction wanted.

I already explained to you why south couldn't achieve the ever lasting peace because no faction was strong enough to wipe all the other players from the game, wether it was natural( the 4 months truce) or artificial(foreign nations). For example the US peace mission in early 90s, the Ethiopian crack down on Xisbul Islam in Gedo in 1994. Or the Kenyan invasion of JL in 2011 or Ethiopian invasion of ICU in 2006. It's the same reason why JL is on turmoil and Kismaayo has seen so many conflicts through out the civil war.

When one faction wins and gains the upperhand in South peace comes naturally. Its just much more trickier to achieve that because there are so many clans and factions present there. Since 1991 only ICU manged to achieve this because it was based on an inclusive Ideology that every Somali could understand and relate to. Wax aan qabiil ka sugeeno ma'jiro. We are waiting for the next pan tribal ideology to take root in the south aka the next revolution.

You have decided to compleatly ignore the geopolitics, demographics and the history of the South so you could twist the reality into some racist and childish fantasy of your clans superiority.
And yet you come here to emphasize on the importance of science.

Incorrect analysis and you must take it back as my analysis is spot on. Hawiye plan was for Darod to get out of Hamar, that was the first phase of they're objective, when this was achieved they turned on themselves. It wasn't about ports or bakaro markets kkkkk, the 4 month war was about government control between mahdi/aideed, this war was called 'caga barar' where even all hawiyes know this. The economic era war was the warlord era that I saw, this was about airport, checkpoints, and controlling ports and bakaaraha becuz that's what each warlords needed in order to extort and funnel to themselves HARAM, they paid they're soldiers with KHAT kkkkk and what is left over they invested into properties overseas cause there was no construction activities in hamar in 99 or any real industry watsoever beyond bakaraha.

Your viewing Somali conflict with the WARLORD lense saying their was nothing to fight over in PL because u assume to have a war is to fight over economics. Incorrect. Hawiye wars are linked to government. PL wars are linked to GOVT like in 2001.

Look at HS/GM problems whenever a govt is mentioned the worst wars happen. The other thing brother what was dahir aways doing in PL in 93 if PL wasn't desired? what are galgala isaaq doing in our mountains? what are southern IDPS coming here for work and literally becoming traders today? if IDP were in search of a peaceful place they can stop in dhusomareeb can't they? this is the nearest peaceful place above beletwayn river, but no. They come to PL right? cuz they want opportunities and they actually get them. Forget PL for one moment, but my point is simple.

Wars are over govt for hawiye not necessarily economics becuz in the warlord era the rate of death was far less and only skirmishes for isbaaro nothing else, they were calm and I remember walking around in a space of no governance, it felt so weird like u were sent to a society that was in 15th century dark age europe, infact my history essay on roman empire in highschool was inspired by thinking of u as barbarics. Infact HG were so peaceful they enjoy no government, our peace treaty in Galkayo was undisturbed u see from no govt era 94-2004. Now in 2016 they up in arms as Hawiye is back in power again, GM is talking about govt, it's when u take a govt to them the war starts, if u let them like animals they are peaceful and say 'arey maxaa loo dagaali dawlad ma jiree' kkkk let's just do bililiqo like warlords and get rich. Hence why I say Hawiye marku dawlad la'an ku heeshiyay after the caga barar wars they then agreed to HARAM which is warlord era rather then saying come back my majerten master and GOVERN me, I will never forgive them for that TANASUL, never ever and it showed me they are not Somali orientated at all. They are now singing turkish and amisom soldier protect them and next they will go to UN like at son of yarisow as he is COLONIZED like his AWOOWEYAAL

PS - I know why u wanted darods out, it was going to be 'bargaining' chip u use to say let us RULE and we will let u come and settle again in hamar, u envisioned they would be eating rocks in mudug and bari, oh my how things didn't turn to plan. I know u abtiyaal ba ii tihin niyahow, your politics IS AMATEURISH. U thought they couldnt survive out there in the desert since most came from hamar and were urbanized, well guess what, they did and it's blossoming and moving forward. U actually helped them UNITE and gave them a sense of unity over 'hawiye enemy' it was terrible decision u guys made.

 

[PhySom]

@DR OSMAN There wouldn't be much difference in natural intelligence throughout somalia. Perhaps culture manifesting itself in aggressiveness but individuality we are on average equal.

The PIM movement won't work , just look at somaliland , we need to take control of the somali government and impliment scientific methodologies.