Russia-Ukraine War

[World]

Regardless, it’s is very clear throughout history that a Ukrainian identity did exist but repeatedly faced extinction efforts by Russia.

Ukrainian nationalism goes back 300 years. There are poems that refer to Russia as colonialists even back then.

The idea that Ukraine and Russia are brothers but Ukraine has recently spurned them is incorrect. For almost its entire modern history, Ukraine has hated Russia.

Not the same people, never claimed they were.

Why don’t you talk about how Scotland and Northern Ireland are part of the UK, even though England tried to exterminate their identities and languages throughout history? Same goes for Catalonia and Spain. There are so many examples throughout Europe. This is a consequence of nation states. But you only seem to care about Ukrainian identity which shows your bias.

The origin of the Ukrainian identity is only because Poland-Lithuania invaded Ukraine whereas modern day Russia stayed independent. Had Ukraine not been carved out of Russia in WW1, there would not be any Ukraine today and they would be part of Russia as they had been for centuries. Likewise, Somaliland would not exist today if they were colonised by Italians instead of the British.

 

[Periplus]

Not the same people, never claimed they were.

Why don’t you talk about how Scotland and Northern Ireland are part of the UK, even though England tried to exterminate their identities and languages throughout history? Same goes for Catalonia and Spain. There are so many examples throughout Europe. This is a consequence of nation states. But you only seem to care about Ukrainian identity which shows your bias.

The origin of the Ukrainian identity is only because Poland-Lithuania invaded Ukraine whereas modern day Russia stayed independent. Had Ukraine not been carved out of Russia in WW1, there would not be any Ukraine today and they would be part of Russia as they had been for centuries. Likewise, Somaliland would not exist today if they were colonised by Italians instead of the British.

The whataboutism is strong here.

FYI, I agree that Catalonia, Scotland and Northern Ireland should be independent but this discussion isn’t about them.

Secondly, comparing the life that Ukrainians will have under Russian annexation to a Scottish person in the UK is so ludicrous.

Your argument about post-WWI carving can be made about several nation states in Europe.

If this was 1939, you would be justifying Anschluss and the capturing of the Sudetenland.

 

[World]

The whataboutism is strong here.

FYI, I agree that Catalonia, Scotland and Northern Ireland should be independent but this discussion isn’t about them.

Secondly, comparing the life that Ukrainians will have under Russian annexation to a Scottish person in the UK is so ludicrous.

Your argument about post-WWI carving can be made about several nation states in Europe.

If this was 1939, you would be justifying Anschluss and the capturing of the Sudetenland.

There are three million Ukrainians already living in Russia, their largest diaspora. All living perfectly normal lives. They would live better lives united with their Russian kin. They did not starve 1 million innocent Ukrainians to death like the British did to the Irish.

All German speakers have never been united under one rule, whereas before the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Ukrainians have been united with Russians for centuries. So your last point is moot. I wouldn’t justify it just like how I believe Cushitic unity is BS.

 

[Periplus]

There are three million Ukrainians already living in Russia, their largest diaspora. All living perfectly normal lives. They would live better lives united with their Russian kin. They did not starve 1 million innocent Ukrainians to death like the British did to the Irish.

All German speakers have never been united under one rule, whereas before the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Ukrainians have been united with Russians for centuries. So your last point is moot. I wouldn’t justify it just like how I believe Cushitic unity is BS.

1. A Ukrainian lives a less free life in Russia than they do in Ukraine (pre-invasion ofc). Can’t really call that a “normal” life.

2. Russia starved 3.5 million Ukrainians in one year. It’s recognised as genocide in 16 countries.

3. Germany and Austria were under the same nation state pre-1871. The Holy Roman Empire and it’s successors included all German speakers if I remember correctly.

 

[Kool-Aid]

 

[World]

1. A Ukrainian lives a less free life in Russia than they do in Ukraine (pre-invasion ofc). Can’t really call that a “normal” life.

2. Russia starved 3.5 million Ukrainians in one year. It’s recognised as genocide in 16 countries.

3. Germany and Austria were under the same nation state pre-1871. The Holy Roman Empire and it’s successors included all German speakers if I remember correctly.

I’m not a communist, but the narrative that the Holodomor was a deliberate, systematic form of ethnic cleansing is useful for capitalist states like the U.S. They have their own vetted interests for labelling it a genocide. No question there was mass starvation during the collectivisation, but that’s due to mismanagement according to experts.

I wouldn’t label The Holy Roman Empire as a state, it was a collection of hundreds of minor domains under the loose protection of an elected Emperor. The Emperor did not even have any real power, and the HRE was fractured internally along various political and geographic lines.

 

[HiraanBorn]

I would like to see this scenario, but low chance it will happen.

Finland & Sweden start talks with NATO for membership. Retard Putin attacks them, temporarily controls both countries. The West retaliates, wins, starts invading Russia, no nuclear weapons are used. Russia is conquered and gets split up, Western parts of Russia join the EU. Eastern parts are given to South Korea and Japan.

Lol, one can dream.

 

[TekNiKo]

 

[Shimbiris]

I would like to see this scenario, but low chance it will happen.

Finland & Sweden start talks with NATO for membership. Retard Putin attacks them, temporarily controls both countries. The West retaliates, wins, starts invading Russia, no nuclear weapons are used. Russia is conquered and gets split up, Western parts of Russia join the EU. Eastern parts are given to South Korea and Japan.

Lol, one can dream.

It also turns out no nukes were used because all of Russia's warheads are actually filled with... borscht.

And all of Russia's nuclear reactor facilities are actually just coal plants running sophisticated air filtration systems to hide their fumes. The Rushiin sold all their nukes to black market buyers ages ago when the USSR collapsed and have been lying eversince. With this revelation also comes to light that most mafias worldwide are sitting on nukes.

 

[Kool-Aid]

 

[Kool-Aid]

 

[HiraanBorn]

The Turks actually blocked the Bosphorus for the Ukrainians? I thought they'd repeat what happened in 2014 and not block it. I'm surprised.

 

[HiraanBorn]

Oh it was false info

 

[TekNiKo]

 

[World]

Has anyone been watching the live-streams? Hundreds of 1960 and 1970 era vehicles in terrible conditions rolling through Ukraine, literally ancient museum pieces that you would see in WW2 and the Korean War. The planes shot down were mainly 1970 designs. This is nothing more than cannon fodder that Russia dug out of decades old Soviet warehouses.

You got to wonder, why isn’t Russia using any of their modern equipment and why are they keeping their better forces at bay? It’s likely Putin plans to extend beyond Ukraine or because he expects this to spiral out of control into a wider conflict.

 

[Aurelian]

The judeo-nazi regime must be defeated.

Judeo nazi? It’s like saying communist libertarian capitalism. Dude just accept it, they aren’t nazi

 

[cow]

Has anyone been watching the live-streams? Hundreds of 1960 and 1970 era vehicles in terrible conditions rolling through Ukraine, literally ancient museum pieces that you would see in WW2 and the Korean War. The planes shot down were mainly 1970 designs. This is nothing more than cannon fodder that Russia dug out of decades old Soviet warehouses.

You got to wonder, why isn’t Russia using any of their modern equipment and why are they keeping their better forces at bay? It’s likely Putin plans to extend beyond Ukraine or because he expects this to spiral out of control into a wider conflict.

i think we wants to achieve 3 things

1) he wants the west to be even more anti Russia. the level of anti Russia in western media is insane.

2) he wants to avoid a guerilla warfare. if he won in day one or day two the majority of the armed forces would just remove their uniforms and do a hit and run while being blended within the civilians populace. This prolonged war where there is an actual front/lines is slowly wiping out the fighting men of Ukriane and also their will to even attempt to do a guerilla warfare. Notice how the west is saying if "russia does not win 1 week then they wont be able to sustain the cost of war". All of that narrative is designed so that Russia gets a quick victory but then get bogged down like USA did in Afghanistan and Iraq.

However Putin's slow method of giving the Ukrainians hope but also slowly killing their army is a smart move.

3) he wants the ethnic Russians within Ukraine to be it's guardians. in population around 18 percent of Ukraine are Ethnic Russians. The Ethnic Ukrainians have become completely crazy they basically accuse any Ethnic Russian of being a saboteur and round them up arrest/beaten or even kill them. This will turn the ethnic russian very pro russia and will also make the russian people in russia very pro war.

-- While he is slowing the conflict at the same time he is showing his power. capturing an airport 20km away from Kyiv within the same day the conflict started. capturing most of the powerstations in the country and most of it's airports.

 

[Marshall D Abdi]

Its Officiall sweden has sent weapons and food to ukraine at the same time calling Putin coward for attacking a miskiin who cannot defand itself m

The Prime minister literally saying fight ppl at ur size 6 hours russia mobilised army at Finland border

 

[Kool-Aid]

I wonder who are ganna be the low IQ morons to take him up his offer.

 

[cow]

Its Officiall sweden has sent weapons and food to ukraine at the same time calling Putin coward for attacking a miskiin who cannot defand itself m

The Prime minister literally saying fight ppl at ur size 6 hours russia mobilised army at Finland border

Back in the 1970's and 1980's Russia was giving weapons to Vietnam but that was on the hush hush same with USA giving weapons to the mujahideen in Afganistan again in the hush hush and it was going through Pakistan from Israel. so through two proxies just to avoid a direct connection between the Americans and the Mujahideens in order to avoid WW3.

Now America is arming Ukraine in the open without any fear. I think this blatant disrespect towards Russia is what might cause a nuclear war.