https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/41hl1z/muslim_women_in_the_uk_must_integrate_and_speak/
I was reading this on reddit until I stumbled on this
Zijndarling 536 points 1 day ago*
I'm an American immigrant in the Netherlands. I took a language course with a Muslim Somalian girl who had been born in The Netherlands. After having lived there for over 20 years, neither her, her sisters, or her mother could speak Dutchflunetly- her mother not at all. My classmate often had to leave school just so she could help her mother navigate society only slightly better than she could herself.
What's worse? Because they were from Somalia, their entire family was given free language courses. Those same courses cost me €9,000. Not to mention having priority housing too, despite having lived safely in the Netherlands for 20 years.
IME, you only ever see Muslim women with other Muslim women because they literally can't communicate with anyone outside of their small community.
[–]Mojo_666 234 points 1 day ago
That is absolutly insane, what the hell is going on when you are born in a country and don't even learn the language?
permalinkparent
[–]Zijndarling 229 points 1 day ago
Let me put it this way... I was living here for a year and had only done my own studying before joining the course, and we were both in the same proficiency level. She was also the only girl in her family to get lessons so her mom and sisters were still pretty helpless- she only did it because she decided she wanted to work and not stay at home.
You don't have to integrate if you just stay in your small community. The men go to work. The children go to migrant/Muslim scools. The women stay home. When the children get old enough, the boys go to the next level of education, the girls stay home. I taught English at a college for a bit and only one of my students was Muslim and could speak Dutch/English. All the other Muslim women would go to another school where literally only Muslim women attended. how can you grow if you never challenge yourself or acknowledge other perspectives? They may have just enough language to check out at a grocery store but they definitely can't excel in society with such little Dutch.
permalinkparent
[–]methmobile 280 points 1 day ago*
The children go to migrant/Muslim schools.
I think you found the problem.
permalinkparent
[–]Zijndarling 149 points 1 day ago
Exactly. And that's just part of it. The families all stick together. It is extremely rare to see a Muslim with anyone that also isn't Muslim. The same girl I wrote about even complained about this. She smoked cigarettes and even though she was an adult, she always had to hide smoking. Because the Muslim community is so tight-nit, any Muslim in town who saw her smoking would know exactly who she is and what family she belonged to. And it'd tarnish her family name.
But this is the same issue with a lot of minority communities. They stay together in their own neighborhoods, shun outsiders, leaving the community is looked down upon, and they don't trust the majority which leads to them not reporting criminals in their community and using community justice instead. Be it crime, not integrating, etc. it's usually the same cause- refusing to grow by learning.
permalinkparent
[–]witlessmaester 19 points 1 day ago
Yeah, Somalis are like that. Almost everyone knows each other, or knows of each other. But what I don't get is how these schools are operating. Doesn't the Dutch government enforce language rules in private schools? I'm a Canadian Muslim, so seeing a language barrier due to schooling is a bit of a surprise for me.
I was reading this on reddit until I stumbled on this
Zijndarling 536 points 1 day ago*
I'm an American immigrant in the Netherlands. I took a language course with a Muslim Somalian girl who had been born in The Netherlands. After having lived there for over 20 years, neither her, her sisters, or her mother could speak Dutchflunetly- her mother not at all. My classmate often had to leave school just so she could help her mother navigate society only slightly better than she could herself.
What's worse? Because they were from Somalia, their entire family was given free language courses. Those same courses cost me €9,000. Not to mention having priority housing too, despite having lived safely in the Netherlands for 20 years.
IME, you only ever see Muslim women with other Muslim women because they literally can't communicate with anyone outside of their small community.
[–]Mojo_666 234 points 1 day ago
That is absolutly insane, what the hell is going on when you are born in a country and don't even learn the language?
permalinkparent
[–]Zijndarling 229 points 1 day ago
Let me put it this way... I was living here for a year and had only done my own studying before joining the course, and we were both in the same proficiency level. She was also the only girl in her family to get lessons so her mom and sisters were still pretty helpless- she only did it because she decided she wanted to work and not stay at home.
You don't have to integrate if you just stay in your small community. The men go to work. The children go to migrant/Muslim scools. The women stay home. When the children get old enough, the boys go to the next level of education, the girls stay home. I taught English at a college for a bit and only one of my students was Muslim and could speak Dutch/English. All the other Muslim women would go to another school where literally only Muslim women attended. how can you grow if you never challenge yourself or acknowledge other perspectives? They may have just enough language to check out at a grocery store but they definitely can't excel in society with such little Dutch.
permalinkparent
[–]methmobile 280 points 1 day ago*
The children go to migrant/Muslim schools.
I think you found the problem.
permalinkparent
[–]Zijndarling 149 points 1 day ago
Exactly. And that's just part of it. The families all stick together. It is extremely rare to see a Muslim with anyone that also isn't Muslim. The same girl I wrote about even complained about this. She smoked cigarettes and even though she was an adult, she always had to hide smoking. Because the Muslim community is so tight-nit, any Muslim in town who saw her smoking would know exactly who she is and what family she belonged to. And it'd tarnish her family name.
But this is the same issue with a lot of minority communities. They stay together in their own neighborhoods, shun outsiders, leaving the community is looked down upon, and they don't trust the majority which leads to them not reporting criminals in their community and using community justice instead. Be it crime, not integrating, etc. it's usually the same cause- refusing to grow by learning.
permalinkparent
[–]witlessmaester 19 points 1 day ago
Yeah, Somalis are like that. Almost everyone knows each other, or knows of each other. But what I don't get is how these schools are operating. Doesn't the Dutch government enforce language rules in private schools? I'm a Canadian Muslim, so seeing a language barrier due to schooling is a bit of a surprise for me.
How the hell do you get around? Beg people to translate shit for you?
You don't have to be aorund ajnabi's if you don't like but got damn it learn the language for your own good.
