Somali Crime statistics (1960-1963)

[awsaleban667]

32 murders in a country of 3 million is very low for a country in Africa especially at the time. Not to mention how crime was halved in just 3 years. While I do think a lot of people have way too rose tinted glasses about the Early republic, it definitely makes sense why people especially elderslook back so fondly on it despite the corruption, Economic instability, and clan politics. Imagine spending the first 30 years of your life in a place with lower crime rates than many modern day European countries and then spending the next 30 in a hellhole with daily car bombs, tit for tat clan killings of innocent civilians daily, extortion, rape, tens of thousands of foreign troops pillaging and raping etc.
@Khaemwaset @Thegoodshepherd @Three Moons
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[Wonyluvr]

I wanna see the crime statistics for the colonial period

 

[Khaemwaset]

32 murders in a country of 3 million is very low for a country in Africa especially at the time. Not to mention how crime was halved in just 3 years. While I do think a lot of people have way too rose tinted glasses about the Early republic, it definitely makes sense why people especially elderslook back so fondly on it despite the corruption, Economic instability, and clan politics. Imagine spending the first 30 years of your life in a place with lower crime rates than many modern day European countries and then spending the next 30 in a hellhole with daily car bombs, tit for tat clan killings of innocent civilians daily, extortion, rape, tens of thousands of foreign troops pillaging and raping etc.
@Khaemwaset @Thegoodshepherd @Three Moons
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Of course there was downsides back then, Somalia wasn't some world class state or anything.
But Somalia before the war was objectively better in every way i can think of.

We went from dropping bombs near addis ababa to begging the UN while 15k Ethiopian troops march into the country to take a port.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Idoors have always exuded yahuud-like behaviour.

Of course there was downsides back then, Somalia wasn't some world class state or anything.
But Somalia before the war was objectively better in every way i can think of.

We went from dropping bombs near addis ababa to begging the UN while 15k Ethiopian troops march into the country to take a port.

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[Somali Saayid]

32 murders in a country of 3 million is very low for a country in Africa especially at the time. Not to mention how crime was halved in just 3 years. While I do think a lot of people have way too rose tinted glasses about the Early republic, it definitely makes sense why people especially elderslook back so fondly on it despite the corruption, Economic instability, and clan politics. Imagine spending the first 30 years of your life in a place with lower crime rates than many modern day European countries and then spending the next 30 in a hellhole with daily car bombs, tit for tat clan killings of innocent civilians daily, extortion, rape, tens of thousands of foreign troops pillaging and raping etc.
@Khaemwaset @Thegoodshepherd @Three Moons
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How much crime went unreported or is this only in the cities and towns, what about baadiyo?

 

[World]

If Somalia had a low crime rate between 0-3 years of independence, then I would attribute that to the colonialists not the early republic. Not destroying the institutions built by British, UN and Italians within 3 years isn’t an achievement.

 

[Zak12]

If Somalia had a low crime rate between 0-3 years of independence, then I would attribute that to the colonialists not the early republic. Not destroying the institutions built by British, UN and Italians within 3 years isn’t an achievement.

Colonists only took control of Somalia for 14 years so that ain't it.

 

[Rayaale]

We still have low murder rates even if you include the clan skirmishes,the civil war lost 500k Somalis meanwhile the Tigray genocide cost 600k lives in 2 years

How much crime went unreported or is this only in the cities and towns, what about baadiyo?

 

[Khaemwaset]

If Somalia had a low crime rate between 0-3 years of independence, then I would attribute that to the colonialists not the early republic. Not destroying the institutions built by British, UN and Italians within 3 years isn’t an achievement.

Those europeans probably had worse crime statistics. And Somalia has completely rebuilt the Republic after the 1969 Siad Barre revolution. And yet still had low murder rates.

Even our wars took relatively few deaths. Whole Somali civil war is 1 million over the course of 30 years, the majority being famine.

Meanwhile just the tigray war in Ethiopia starting 2018 cost 600k deaths. Ethiopia has millions dying every in ethnic genocides every few years like clockwork

 

[Idilinaa]

If Somalia had a low crime rate between 0-3 years of independence, then I would attribute that to the colonialists not the early republic. Not destroying the institutions built by British, UN and Italians within 3 years isn’t an achievement.

Colonial period was just rife with brutality and exploitation and violent uprisings/resistances against it by the public.

After independence they inherited practically almost no institutions, they built most of them in the 1960s. Even the Army, police force and everything was mostly built by President Aden and Premier Abdirizak H.Hussein equipped them as well, although seriously lacking managed to fend off the borders against an Ethiopian army equipped by the US.

You should read Abdi Ismail Samatars book ''Africa's First Democrats'', in it he argues that the democratic organization they built was in many ways foundational.

And it's connection to the formation of Somalia’s first internal self-government in 1956. Somali Youth League (SYL) elected the late Abdillahi Issa Mohamoud and Aden Abdillah Osman as Prime Minister and President of the Legislative Assembly, respectively.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

If Somalia had a low crime rate between 0-3 years of independence, then I would attribute that to the colonialists not the early republic. Not destroying the institutions built by British, UN and Italians within 3 years isn’t an achievement.

What 'institutions' did they build lol

Even if we accept some marginal role, if anything they caused more problems because with union the new country had the issue of combining two different styles into a single coherent bureaucracy and government.

 

[Khaemwaset]

What 'institutions' did they build lol

Even if we accept some marginal role, if anything they caused more problems because with union the new country had the issue of combining two different styles into a single coherent bureaucracy and government.

Shouldve just left The sayyid to consolidate a single state over the peninsula when the Dervish killed their general in 1903.

We'd be ran on a similar way to gulf states with all their clans and a single leader

 

[World]

Colonial period was just rife with brutality and exploitation and violent uprisings/resistances against it by the public.

After independence they inherited practically almost no institutions, they built most of them in the 1960s. Even the Army, police force and everything was mostly built by President Aden and Premier Abdirizak H.Hussein equipped them as well, although seriously lacking managed to fend off the borders against an Ethiopian army equipped by the US.

You should read Abdi Ismail Samatars book ''Africa's First Democrats'', in it he argues that the democratic organization they built was in many ways foundational.

And it's connection to the formation of Somalia’s first internal self-government in 1956. Somali Youth League (SYL) elected the late Abdillahi Issa Mohamoud and Aden Abdillah Osman as Prime Minister and President of the Legislative Assembly, respectively.

What 'institutions' did they build lol

Even if we accept some marginal role, if anything they caused more problems because with union the new country had the issue of combining two different styles into a single coherent bureaucracy and government.

How much did the Somali police force grow between before and 3 years after independence? How are the crime statistics lower than before? There's no solid proof you've presented.

The Italian UN administration from 1950-1960 achieved quite a lot tbh, thats why a lot of Somalis wanted them to have control for another 30 years. I wouldn't say in those 10 years they were fascists, or rife with brutality and exploitation.

 

[Idilinaa]

View attachment 332815
View attachment 332816

Before the the mid-late 1950s The Police Force was a small rag tag of mismatch group of men hardly anything to speak of,

It was Abdirizak did the intitial building of the police armed forces striked a deal with West Germany for training , logistic support, for pilots and ground crews into a 5k army

Then Aden further developed the police force into a 10k professional modern army fully equipped.

 

[World]

Before the the mid-late 1950s The Police Force was a small rag tag of mismatch group of men hardly anything to speak of,

It was Abdirizak did the intitial building of the police armed forces striked a deal with West Germany for training , logistic support, for pilots and ground crews into a 5k army

Then Aden further developed the police force into a 10k professional modern army fully equipped.

The Somali police force was over 3000 already in 1943.

Here is a video in 1956 of the graduation of some police forces:

 

[Idilinaa]

The Somali police force was over 3000 already in 1943.

Here is a video in 1956 of the graduation of some police forces:

This was the police armed forces in 1956 after the country inaugurated it's first native self-governed authority , the Governo Della Somalo (Somali Government) with an elected parliament or legislative assembly (Assembla Legislativa), as they were training and preparing to unite in independence with Northern Somaliland.

Thats a good find.

 

[World]

This was the police armed forces in 1956 after the country inaugurated it's first native self-governed authority , the Governo Della Somalo (Somali Government) with an elected parliament or legislative assembly (Assembla Legislativa), as they were training and preparing to unite in independence with Northern Somaliland.

Thats a good find.

Thoughts?

 

[awsaleban667]

If Somalia had a low crime rate between 0-3 years of independence, then I would attribute that to the colonialists not the early republic. Not destroying the institutions built by British, UN and Italians within 3 years isn’t an achievement.

Merely maintaining colonial system doesn't explain how crime halved in 3 years either. The Homicide rate and murder rate are both lower than modern Italy and Britain too.

 

[Idilinaa]

Thoughts?

View attachment 332818

That experience in political education and self-government was a noteworthy difference between the north and south. It's ironic that current day secessionists glamorize British occupation , and blame other Somalis for this. The british looked down on them and saw them as unfit to govern themselves.

This also bled into civil administration disparities in the capital before and after independence, with hawiye but especially with Majeerten's preponderance because they had prior statehood administrative experience & education and business capital from it. The business capital was especially important because to run for democratically elected office you need funding and raising money, hardly something everyone could afford to do. This would later be a source of corruption to bridge that gap of lack of capital or funding.