Somali diaspora youth issues:

[Geeljire]

I have done alot of reflection on this topic.

And @Kaafiye @Realwarya @Tramo @paragon Walaalayaal i apologize i did not mean to come across as insensitive or someone condescending over stepping his boundaries. What i say really does not have any sort of maliciousness behind it, i really do want the best for the youth and i feel like wherever they are in worldwide diaspora they suffer from the same plague and it's not something that is localized to one area. I am seeking answers to this and try my best to grasp where the issues lies and how we can affect change.

I did not mean that other ethnic groups if put in the same circumstance as Somalis wouldn't produce people who take to urban vices( drugs, violence bad attitudes towards school) or religious radicalism, cuz they actually do. But it was to question why Somalis compared them in that regard are more disproportionate. And i think that should be looked at more.
I can not see parenting being the problem because this equally affects Somalis from very good households as well.

From what i got from my own research/experience to explain the disproportionalety is the lack of cultural and religious identity forcing a significant number down that road. When they lack that refrence of self that they badly need they latch on to all sorts of things to fill that void. Lack of cultural identity contributes why they take to urban ghetto culture and lack of religious identity or being irreligious contributes to why many turn to religious radicalism and are more susceptible to psuedo religious brainwashing.

I could see how your surroundings could have a factor like living in a bad neighborhood for example to a great extent but that only applies if that particular community have no defense what'sover in terms of social capital, united organized collectivity.
From what i see this seems to be the case in the fact there is a lack of cultural capital and religious capital to draw from .Social capital in the form of valuable community resources. i think if we really had that would at least mininize the extent of its impact greatly but because of the total Statelesness and the civil war there is no way.

I hope this will open up a debate where we can talk about Somali diaspora youth in general sense and get exposed to different view points. Seeing that we have a selection of diversified forum members.
And it might be personal for some but i'm just not content with people telling me the problem being a system that is keeping us down and we have no power to change anything and lets cut the personal attacks, insults and degrading comments as well. Its not benefical at all it reeks of bigotry. We need to be able to give our disgreements without that.

In no way am i villifying the youth or demonizing them, i really think its unfortunate that they are burdened by what the civil war brought them and i am sympathetic to this.

And do not listen to @seth mcfarlane aka ciddhartha and @ImminentCrownUsurper they are SJW trolls who hate Somali people and baslessly blame our culture for our problems. They spend their time despising a teenager online.Tragic!

 

[Tramo]

fair play sxb

 

[Geeljire]

Do you think Somalis being largely disunited is affecting the development of Somali diaspora youth in some regard? For instance there is no semblance of any community in many places in the diaspora and not much organized activity or networking going on.

 

[Geeljire]

@SgtBanadir care to share your disagreements?

 

[Mercury]

@Geeljire I agree with your points but Ive never been in NA so I dont know why somali youth act like gangbangers And leaning to that ghetto lifestyle

But i guess this should answer your questions btw i didnt wrote it

There are two words that simplifies the majority, not all though of the black race: extremely narcissistic. They're full of themselves & have no room for growth/maturity & they get testy when you catch & confront them on this. Basically they suffer from the Peter Pan syndrome. They refuse to grow up, but they think they're grown & anyone who challenges their thoughts and feelings, no matter how childish and unrealistic they truly are is the worst scum in the universe. Look at how they treat each other. A black person who grows up kind, humble & respectful & has their own individuality, they're called traitors, unc toms, disgraceful to blks everywhere, etc.They're selfish & so full of themselves, thinking they're above all else & are extremely deceptive & manipulative, caring for no1/anything, except when it's convenient for their egos & so they can continue to do all of this to everyone else. They make everyone in their race look bad & they don't even give a freak. This is why people don't wanna be bothered with blks.

 

[Bahal]

1) they live in shitty crime and drug infested neighborhoods

2) from infancy they live and go to school with New World Blacks

3) they lose their daqan and assimilate, unfortunately assimilate into AA culture instead of mainstream America

4) Parents are generally clueless and/or indifferent, worrying more about their daughters getting pregnant by some Madow

5) they get a felony at 18 and they doomed for life

 

[angrycat]

This forum sums it up basically. It seems a lot of young somalis suffer from identity crisis.

 

[Geeljire]

@Geeljire I agree with your points but Ive never been in NA so I dont know why somali youth act like gangbangers And leaning to that ghetto lifestyle

But i guess this should answer your questions btw i didnt wrote it

There are two words that simplifies the majority, not all though of the black race: extremely narcissistic. They're full of themselves & have no room for growth/maturity & they get testy when you catch & confront them on this. Basically they suffer from the Peter Pan syndrome. They refuse to grow up, but they think they're grown & anyone who challenges their thoughts and feelings, no matter how childish and unrealistic they truly are is the worst scum in the universe. Look at how they treat each other. A black person who grows up kind, humble & respectful & has their own individuality, they're called traitors, unc toms, disgraceful to blks everywhere, etc.They're selfish & so full of themselves, thinking they're above all else & are extremely deceptive & manipulative, caring for no1/anything, except when it's convenient for their egos & so they can continue to do all of this to everyone else. They make everyone in their race look bad & they don't even give a freak. This is why people don't wanna be bothered with blks.

I agree suscribing to this so called ''black'' identity is a setback itself. Many Somali youth in the Anglo saxon countries will claw tooth and nail to be identified as such. This is a problem itself.

As "black" is largely western/european exonym extended and pushed on people to comform to. its definitions is predetermined and fixed we have no control over it. "Blackness is really just a sub-culture in Whiteness. It is not concerned with Somali but broken English. It is not concerned with Somali clothing - but with Western designer garments worn low. Its historical references are not the battles between Adal and Abyssinia but between Tupac and Biggie. Somaliness is concerned with our humanity, while Blackness is concerned with consumerism. It is a statement of ownership of self and ideals. Somaliness defines itself and creates it's own agenda. Blackness is defined as the opposite of whiteness and it's agenda has been pre-arranged . This so called "Blackness" takes Somalis further into a Western identity trap of still being alienated but without a framework for self-development.

Blackness has zero concern with anything beyond attitude, speaking bad English, wearing your pants low, walking with bad posture, and gaining status by being as ignorant as possible.

So its problematic when youth replace Somaliness with western identity construct of blackness for whatever reason.

It seems a lot of young somalis suffer from identity crisis.

Right. Thats what ive been saying and this contributes to the issues of the youth. Somali identity is very much becoming blank inexclusive label with no meaning or refrence attach to it for many. They need to be supplied with that refrence of self.

 

[Kaafiye]

Geeljire, I can't make a long response because I'm downtown and can only look at my phone for a few minutes at a time. But your entire argument in the other thread is something which I somewhat agree with, in the sense that Somali diaspora youth have lost their culture and this is one of the biggest reasons why we've gone so astray. But I also think that negative peer influences and irresponsible parenting is a factor as well, as well as the fact that many Somali youth don't have mentors to show them the right path, as well as a lack of connection with Allah. It's a deep problem but I do feel that Somali youth ARE in fact slowly getting better as their parents begin to smarten up and realize their mistakes. As bad as it looks, it was actually a lot worse 10 years ago and alhamdulilah we've improved dramatically.

 

[ironclad urchin]

awwwwwwww

 

[Geeljire]

Geeljire, I can't make a long response because I'm downtown and can only look at my phone for a few minutes at a time. But your entire argument in the other thread is something which I somewhat agree with, in the sense that Somali diaspora youth have lost their culture and this is one of the biggest reasons why we've gone so astray. But I also think that negative peer influences and irresponsible parenting is a factor as well, as well as the fact that many Somali youth don't have mentors to show them the right path, as well as a lack of connection with Allah. It's a deep problem but I do feel that Somali youth ARE in fact slowly getting better as their parents begin to smarten up and realize their mistakes. As bad as it looks, it was actually a lot worse 10 years ago and alhamdulilah we've improved dramatically.

I do know about all of these factors , but i wasnt denying them. Even when you take these factors to consideration the issue still proceeds and as to also to explain the disproportionalety as well.

I did touch on about the lack of connection to Allah and being irreligious contributing this up above. That lack religious identity is an issue as well and i feel we lack of religious capital in that sense. Which is why here in Scandinavia ,abroad etc everywhere you see us disproportionately fly off to Isis and die.

I think if we actually had more Social capital in form of valuable community resources the way other ethnic communities have, we would do a better job combatting the issue of peer inluences and bad mentorship etc.

But i think there is one factor many are neglecting which is disunity and us not being collectively organized & supportive of eachother. I know the problems have gotten better im just saying it get even better in future inshallah

 

[Kaafiye]

I do know about all of these factors , but i wasnt denying them. Even when you take these factors to consideration the issue still proceeds and as to also to explain the disproportionalety as well.

I did touch on about the lack of connection to Allah and being irreligious contributing this up above. That lack religious identity is an issue as well and i feel we lack of religious capital in that sense. Which is why here in Scandinavia ,abroad etc everywhere you see us disproportionately fly off to Isis and die.

I think if we actually had more Social capital in form of valuable community resources the way other ethnic communities have, we would do a better job combatting the issue of peer inluences and bad mentorship etc.

But i think there is one factor many are neglecting which is disunity and us not being collectively organized & supportive of eachother. I know the problems have gotten better im just saying it get even better in future inshallah

I completely agree with you bro. We have a lack of social and intellectual and religious capital so we're helpless in the face of this foreign onslaught. It's why you see Somalis being influenced by this Saudi-sponsored ISIS ideology or why you see Somalis adopt the mannerisms and behavior of African Americans, while genuinely believing that this behavior is typical of Black people and that Somalis are "Black" and it shouldn't be unusual for us to behave in this manner.

 

[Kaafiye]

In the years 2007 and 2008, Somali youth in Canada were dying in unbelievably high numbers....and although it's improved a lot since then, our murder rate does seem to be a lot lower. I wish I had access to statistics but I don't think the Canadian Federal Government gives racially based statistics when it comes to homicides. All I can do is guess.

But what I do know however, is that our high-school dropout rates have fallen dramatically and more and more Somalis are moving into the suburbs....and our collective net worth has improved ALOT since 2007. So I do think we're improving.

 

[Geeljire]

In the years 2007 and 2008, Somali youth in Canada were dying in unbelievably high numbers....and although it's improved a lot since then, our murder rate does seem to be a lot lower. I wish I had access to statistics but I don't think the Canadian Federal Government gives racially based statistics when it comes to homicides. All I can do is guess.

But what I do know however, is that our high-school dropout rates have fallen dramatically and more and more Somalis are moving into the suburbs....and our collective net worth has improved ALOT since 2007. So I do think we're improving.

Thats awsome i guess, there have been improvements in Scandinavia and UK as well in terms of school graduation rates from stastics ive read . Inshallah it will get even better in the future.

 

[Mercury]

One thing that sets us back is that when a fellow Somali is doing bad Like drinking, drugs or crime instead of helping the individual Somalis distance themself from that person or gloat at their misery

 

[computerwhiz]

What Somali culture are you speaking about you mean the one that disintegrated the country. The one that left millions displaced, starving, fleeing anywhere that will accept them. The best situation is the avoid each other in person and leave our collective identity at the door. We need to assimilate into our new cultures and accept our backward culture has caused us more harm then progress. The best thing to do is form subgroups that branch into specific interest Somali Chess club. That way we have neutral system to keep us together without politics involved. The best way ultimately for us to move forward is to leave the past behind.

 

[Storm]

Somali culture was already waning in major cities before the civil war occurred, if you look at images of Somalis back then, you can see they were influenced by Western music and fasgion.
After the civil war these slightly Westernised Somalis fled with their offspring to the West. This resulted in their children assimilating into their host country's culture almost completely. Somali parents don't place much emphasis on speaking Af-Soomaali at home, they don't worry about teaching their children cultural dances or sayings. The only thing that is truly "Somali" about diaspora Somali is our diet.

Look at Pakistanis and Indians for example, their children speak the language, cook the food and are expected to marry within the community. It also helps that they are patriarchal by nature. Whereas Somalis in the diaspora are largely led by Somali women, these poor women are exhausted because they have to be both the man and the woman at home.

To sum up, we are turning into Ghetto African Americans; high divorce rates caused by apathetic "men" resulting in single mothers who raise children that are disconnected from our homeland. When you look at successful Somali families, you will find that both parents are actively present in their children's lives, you need a harmonious blend of male and female energies.

 

[computerwhiz]

 

[paragon]

I think this is a multi-layered problem. And I do see it improving like @Kafiyee touched on. I understand it's not fair to blame Somali parents for the outcome. However, having a strong family unit certainly is an asset to children. I haven't come across many Somali kids doing poorly or involved in crime if they come from a supportive extended family, two-parent home and/or live in safe neighbourhoods. Many Somalis in the west arrived as Single parents (mothers) via widowhood or divorce. Somali fathers have historically had greater access to education and are more fluent in the languages of the diaspora. So, this is a big loss when they are not present or not involved in the children's lives (as they can be distant to the point of being not there, which is just as bad). There also isn't a such thing as co-parenting, so when the father is out of the picture, he's not involved. I'm sure that alone has created some angry Somali men and women. This puts even greater strain on the hooyo to attempt to fulfill both shoes as a mother and surrogate father. Under these circumstances, an uncle might not live close by. If he lives around he might have his own familial demands (aka a lot of kids) and their might not be an older responsible brother to help out. Somali girls are told to get an education as there aren't many options for them. The boys are told the same, but are given more freedom than their sisters at an early age. An average Somali family would have sisters doing chores and the brothers chilling. This can breed laziness. The girls are also given a harder time and tongue lashing from hooyo macaan while the boys can get away with more. I will tell you not all families have this differential treatment but many do. This can harm them academically if they are out and about playing football or basketball with their homies and neglecting their studies on weekdays. Meanwhile their sisters are at home/more closely guarded. Somali boys vs. girls are more likely to have their peers and teachers have low academic expectations for them, which makes these children less motivated to succeed in academics (it's worse in bad neighbourhoods). A lot of teachers in general have a fixed mindset on intelligence and think you either have it or you don't, especially in the hood (where the worst teachers go). This is also similar to what Somalis believe. It amazes me how many of them don't realize continuous hard work, discipline and being able to defer reward for a better outcome actually makes you intelligent. I think many kids aim low while never realizing their academic potential. It's almost as though they think a bad grade makes you forever dumb. That's only a matter of your test preparation at a certain time interval. Many students overcome this through a strong desire to prove others wrong but peers and teachers can damage their self-esteem a bit, particularly for younger children that are more impressionable. If they live in a rough neighbourhood they can't dress up, but must blend in using a similar vernacular, manner of dress etc. Like I've said these neighbourhoods have higher crime rates and some of the children might be caught up in get rich quick schemes where they are seduced by fast and deadly means of making money.These cat should read 50th Law (50 cents book with Robert Greene). It speaks about how street life is a fast track to the grave so you better plan on an early retirement, or not bother with that life all together. It will only give you death, disease, handicap or incarceration with meager job choices and a relapse into a life of crime.

 

[Geeljire]

One thing that sets us back is that when a fellow Somali is doing bad Like drinking, drugs or crime instead of helping the individual Somalis distance themself from that person or gloat at their misery

I am more speaking off how to prevent them from drinking,drugs and crime in the first place. yeah agree there is stigma attached those particular individuals who fall in to that life, but considering how integrating into the North American society after you've done that kind of work is next to nothing. So i don't think stigmatizations affect is very negligent compared to that, our core focus should minimize people who prey to the urban street life.