Somalia or Nothing - Iman M Ali
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Tjioux
the pussy is never yours, its just your turn.
RasCanjero-
Self imposed exile
Usually like his stuff but this one not so much...
We can't just split Somalia with everyone going their own way.
They'll be even more conflicts when setting up borders of these new countries.
Ethiopia and co will exacerbate the conflicts and we'll return to the early 90s.
At the end; half would be foreign puppets states and the rest dominated by single subclans while minority clans get oppressed.
We can't just split Somalia with everyone going their own way.
They'll be even more conflicts when setting up borders of these new countries.
Ethiopia and co will exacerbate the conflicts and we'll return to the early 90s.
At the end; half would be foreign puppets states and the rest dominated by single subclans while minority clans get oppressed.
MadNomad
As i live and breathe
You're correct. And yet, what else can be done, if we refuse to cooperate? The status quo cannot go on forever. Either we come together as a country or we split up as clan states.
RasCanjero-
Self imposed exile
Status quo isn't being upheld by the Somali ppl but corrupt warlords and foreign interests.
We just need a government in Xamar that isn't controlled by those same interests and we could solve most our problems.
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DRACO
VIP
So many once , if , could , should coming out of Somalia . Maybe if you actually try something in the first place you can do trial and error . Rather than having one rigid plan and expect everything to go to plan .
RasCanjero-
Self imposed exile
That's why I support states having more powers to experiment.
However before we get to that stage we'd need an actual country.
Lets consolidate power first, clean up the trash that's slowing us down and then look into devolving power across states.
embarassing
VIP
Im pretty sure thats what he was saying too. He said that splintering would be the end result of this current path.
DRACO
VIP
Well how can somalia succeed if their is not enough security for the public to vote , because now all the leaders so far been elected through corrupt votes benefiting their sponsoring countries .
Then if you do get a decent leader how can he root out corruption that's if he is not corrupt himself .
lastly federalism is the only way because clan loyalties lie more with their federal state than FGS , how can you move to FGS when you have strong federal states like puntland and co who their regions want some autonomy .
Fixing somalia is going to be very tough considering, not a job for the weak minded and it not up to one man It must be up to a diverse party with true power sharing from all clans so no one feels left out .
I pray for you guys honestly .
Merchant of Mogadishu
From Pella to Pattala, then back to Babylon
Only a cultural revolution on the ground, among the people could relieve the government of such corrupt, nepotistic interests that only serve the foreigners and not Somali nationals.
I agree with some points this guy raised, somalis do tend to lie a-lot and you can't nation build anything on lies!!! but the rest of what he had to say was logically inconsistent. He needs to demonstrate how a 1000 year or older clan tradition will change to an idealogical system from west?. He will also need to demonstrate why 99% of all democracies are failures bar the west and a few states in asia and 1 state in the middle-east?
Any system is bound to succeed regardless of what that system is as long as the people are honest to themselves and the system is agreed upon among themselves. There is no 1 good system as demonstrated through-out history. The ancient romans, pharoahs, chinese, and so many civilizations weren't democracy yet great civilizations. This idea democracy is the only way is hog-wash, history refutes that. The only consistency through-out any good system is the buy-in from the locals and how representative it is culture, morality, and basic human essences such as the right to be free, equal, and have a strong justice system to fall back on. Those essences can be enveloped into any system and there is no right system as he is trying to sell!!!
What someone is willingly to die for in the west, is not what someone is willing to die for in somalia. It's all changes due to cultural values. A Somali might die for tribe, a westerner might die for something else. We all don't die for something with the same reasons. Even the words freedom-equality-justice are very broad terms itself. People will die for women's right in the west, but in a culture where women have set roles, they might not and to force them to do is where the clashes occurs as it goes into everything they are against!!!
This idea it worked for me and therefore its going to work for you is the western model with a total disregard to the conditions of each country.
Any system is bound to succeed regardless of what that system is as long as the people are honest to themselves and the system is agreed upon among themselves. There is no 1 good system as demonstrated through-out history. The ancient romans, pharoahs, chinese, and so many civilizations weren't democracy yet great civilizations. This idea democracy is the only way is hog-wash, history refutes that. The only consistency through-out any good system is the buy-in from the locals and how representative it is culture, morality, and basic human essences such as the right to be free, equal, and have a strong justice system to fall back on. Those essences can be enveloped into any system and there is no right system as he is trying to sell!!!
What someone is willingly to die for in the west, is not what someone is willing to die for in somalia. It's all changes due to cultural values. A Somali might die for tribe, a westerner might die for something else. We all don't die for something with the same reasons. Even the words freedom-equality-justice are very broad terms itself. People will die for women's right in the west, but in a culture where women have set roles, they might not and to force them to do is where the clashes occurs as it goes into everything they are against!!!
This idea it worked for me and therefore its going to work for you is the western model with a total disregard to the conditions of each country.
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I think we should follow god's example of design. It's a very hybrid system in nature, there isn't just one way or one animal or one tree. It's all different and they all work in harmony. Grass needs rain, it needs sun, and time. We should have very different types of systems around the world not this one world order type because that also means one world collapse if something goes wrong!!!
Somali govt needs to ask themselves, when are the people going to pick up a gun. And start working around that, rather then blowhard dreams that never reach anywhere. Once u know what someone is going to die for, you can design something to ensure that person or society isn't triggered!!!
A good principle to start off with is Xeer. It's proven to work in rural areas for centuries and maintain the peace among the clans. That should be a guiding document and referred to. After-all we just need the stability they enjoy going about their lives without fear and safety and achieving their objectives of growing their lifestocks. See once there is peace, they can go about and increase their herds. If there is peace in the cities it can be the same we can increase, it's only upwards from there.
Somali govt needs to ask themselves, when are the people going to pick up a gun. And start working around that, rather then blowhard dreams that never reach anywhere. Once u know what someone is going to die for, you can design something to ensure that person or society isn't triggered!!!
A good principle to start off with is Xeer. It's proven to work in rural areas for centuries and maintain the peace among the clans. That should be a guiding document and referred to. After-all we just need the stability they enjoy going about their lives without fear and safety and achieving their objectives of growing their lifestocks. See once there is peace, they can go about and increase their herds. If there is peace in the cities it can be the same we can increase, it's only upwards from there.
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Agree! Trying to copy the west is what got them there in the first place. Why the need for a "parliament" or a PM are we somali or british? I have no problem in taking things that work from other cultures but this is just western hegemony and cultural colonization as well as slavery in a way
There is very few people in Somalia who are strategic in they're approach, I've heard only a few and they are usually older. You can clearly see when they talk they try to link it back to how something fits into our culture. The one's who don't which are usually 99% of them are just like hey 'this country did this and it worked' so let's try that. It's fine looking at other countries, but never forget the conditions you are in may not be identical to them. I think there was an interesting quote by Thomas jefferson that said “I am convinced that those societies [as the Indians] which live without government enjoy in their general mass an infinitely greater degree of happiness than those who live under European governments.”
See if Jefferson didn't say that, no1 would listen and that's the problem with somalis, they look at the person speaking not the actual content of what their saying. Infact it's all the same in the west also, it's about the person speaking not the actual content he is delivering. So we end up with horrendous advice and continue in that cycle untill we say what is wrong with us. Then clowns develop who are start to say what's wrong with these people intelligence and poverty and all sorts of vices start to rise.
It's like management in companies, the first port of call for them is to look at other similar sized companies with similar operations and do comparisons. But a company regardless of it's size, function, etc all share the same thing, they have people and teams that carry out work for a specific goal. The concerns that rise up in any company are potential pitfalls for you also as you share the same characteristics even though you may carry out 'very' different functions. Even how a football team operates as a team can be guidance for you in your company, the goals might not be the same but the cooperation among them is. Good managers see that and the link, the bad ones don't and just run to look at how other companies like themselves operate.
That's what Somalia govt does also, it looks at other govts for guidance and forgets that XEER even though not a modern state carries out the same very functions of having people cooperate and live in peace which is what we are trying to seek, yet they totally ignore it for the simple fact it's not the formalized state like what their comfortable researching and comparing. I hope that is clear, I can't explain better then that. But the nomads even tho have totally separate goals to the cities such as raising livestocks but it has to cooperate and live in peace with each other in order to reach that goal. The cities and clans need that level of peace and cooperation also before it can reach it's goals. That automatically is a correlation in shared objectives.
Objectives need to be similar, goals don't. Nomad objective is no different to a person in the city, they want peace and security so they can move about seeking rain and water and justice system in-case they are wronged. This then translates into goals such as raising livestock, having family, and surviving. Cities need exactly the same thing, they want peace, need justice and once that is achieved they can then achieve their goals of development and progress.
Inquisitive_
VIP
The people who talk about democracy as a system are utterly clueless, there is no democracy in Western Europe, those that truly hold power never give this up and most certainly not to some peasant lowly voters which they have indoctrinated since the day they were born.
It's nothing more then a charade & control mechanism of the populace, it's orchestrated through an illusion of inclusion to keep the masses docile and from revolting, to do this, you simply present them these glorified PR heads who all do the bidding of the masters.
Those masters are the private central banking cartels that create money out of nothing enslaving much of the world through usury, those people answer to none other then Lucifer as extensively documented via all their rituals/practices/writings/historical records etc.
Hence why such a system will never work in the third world, because those who gain or have power, never voluntary give up that power and most certainly not to some lowly peasant slave citizen.
You cannot use Turkey as an example because the military was overthrowing countless governments until Erdogan subdued them all, even right now Erdogan power's are limited because the Turks don't hold ownership over their private central bank which is run by the Rotschilds, and he dare not do anything against them because they can lock him out from SWIFT.
Hence why inflation is so high in the Turkish economy running at double digits every year with interest rates going through the roof, if he even tries to take steps against them, he would either be murdered or his entire economy would be collapsed through vicious sanctions.
It's nothing more then a charade & control mechanism of the populace, it's orchestrated through an illusion of inclusion to keep the masses docile and from revolting, to do this, you simply present them these glorified PR heads who all do the bidding of the masters.
Those masters are the private central banking cartels that create money out of nothing enslaving much of the world through usury, those people answer to none other then Lucifer as extensively documented via all their rituals/practices/writings/historical records etc.
Hence why such a system will never work in the third world, because those who gain or have power, never voluntary give up that power and most certainly not to some lowly peasant slave citizen.
You cannot use Turkey as an example because the military was overthrowing countless governments until Erdogan subdued them all, even right now Erdogan power's are limited because the Turks don't hold ownership over their private central bank which is run by the Rotschilds, and he dare not do anything against them because they can lock him out from SWIFT.
Hence why inflation is so high in the Turkish economy running at double digits every year with interest rates going through the roof, if he even tries to take steps against them, he would either be murdered or his entire economy would be collapsed through vicious sanctions.
The people who talk about democracy as a system are utterly clueless, there is no democracy in Western Europe, those that truly hold power never give this up and most certainly not to some peasant lowly voters which they have indoctrinated since the day they were born.
It's nothing more then a charade & control mechanism of the populace, it's orchestrated through an illusion of inclusion to keep the masses docile and from revolting, to do this, you simply present them these glorified PR heads who all do the bidding of the masters.
Those masters are the private central banking cartels that create money out of nothing enslaving much of the world through usury, those people answer to none other then Lucifer as extensively documented via all their rituals/practices/writings/historical records etc.
Hence why such a system will never work in the third world, because those who gain or have power, never voluntary give up that power and most certainly not to some lowly peasant slave citizen.
You cannot use Turkey as an example because the military was overthrowing countless governments until Erdogan subdued them all, even right now Erdogan power's are limited because the Turks don't hold ownership over their private central bank which is run by the Rotschilds, and he dare not do anything against them because they can lock him out from SWIFT.
Hence why inflation is so high in the Turkish economy running at double digits every year with interest rates going through the roof, if he even tries to take steps against them, he would either be murdered or his entire economy would be collapsed through vicious sanctions.
Oh Gee not this free-mason shit.. Yes money has a role in politics, funding campaigns and so forth but to think they have 100% control over everything is at best crappy analysis. You can have all the money in the world, but a strong system with courts and auditors and a free press reporting will quickly get you exposed. The king of the land is he who makes the law, even if you have money no1 escapes the law. Even in science it's the laws that nothing escapes big or small!!! Now do the 1% have power, of course but you seem to think they are united. They are not. Each 1% has different interests a manufacturing tycoon wants cheap labor and therefore less taxes and bringing down wages. A bill gates wants highly skilled labor cause his workforce need skills means more govt investment into schools. Automatic differing interests and differing actions will follow. Not to mention the mix of globalism now which is added to the mix.
Plus there is a key weakness to the rich, if there is no poor people they're is no labor for them and therefore their money is essentially nothing. It's in their interest to ensure the labor supply is running well and that labor supply has needs if unmet can be disastrous on them. The last thing the rich want is the 1% to be the only ones left in the world, cause a rich person isn't going to take orders from another rich person, it's just going to endless war. The buffer is the labor, a critical link if gone can begin a spiral of problems into the future!!!
I am very anti communist so don't try to sell me that system, it actually goes against nature dynamics or diversity not unification and I can't ever see anything going against nature actually succeeding in the long run. One class of people is one point of failure, if it fails everyone suffers. At least with a class system rich and poor not everyone is affected and there is hope for recovery. If all the 1% disappear today, we have hope from the labor that new 1% will come along. If labor supply disappears we can source it elsewhere from overseas. It's not a single point of failure which is the key feature. Communism is put all ya eggs in one basket and lets go ride and die!!!
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