Sudanese Arabs?

[convincation]

What exactly are these people. Some of them look very black and some of them are straight up white but I noticed the vast majority of them like Somali. They claim to be Cushites but natively speak a Nilotic language and on top of that are heavily mixed with Arabs and now most speak Arabic. It’s like everything about them contrasts the other. What exactly is their genetic make up? Are they mostly Nilotic or Cushitic and are Sudanese Arabs and Nubians the same thing and are Beja Cushites considered Sudanese Arabs?

 

[Boogie]

Sudan is a melting pot of Cushitic, Nilotic, Egyptian, and Semitic.

 

[convincation]

Sudan is a melting pot of Cushitic, Nilotic, Egyptian, and Semitic.

Sudanese Arabs are a specific group of related tribes so their origin should be the same my question is, is that origin Cushitic or Nilotic

 

[Juke]

Sudanese Arabs are a specific group of related tribes so their origin should be the same my question is, is that origin Cushitic or Nilotic

Sudanese Arabs are very diverse. They have real Hejazi tribes which arrived from Arabia a couple hundred years ago, Arabized Saharans in Darfur, Arabized Nilotes in the south, Arabized Nubians and Arabized Bejas.

 

[Apollo]

What exactly are these people. Some of them look very black and some of them are straight up white but I noticed the vast majority of them like Somali. They claim to be Cushites but natively speak a Nilotic language and on top of that are heavily mixed with Arabs and now most speak Arabic. It’s like everything about them contrasts the other. What exactly is their genetic make up? Are they mostly Nilotic or Cushitic and are Sudanese Arabs and Nubians the same thing and are Beja Cushites considered Sudanese Arabs?

Northeast African genomic variation shaped by the continuity of indigenous groups and Eurasian migrations

Author summary Northeast Africa has geographic and historical links to Eurasia via the Middle East and the Arabian Peninsula, but the demographic history of the region itself has been more elusive. We investigate genomic diversity of northeast African populations and found a clear bimodal...

journals.plos.org

K4 and K10 in that chart is most reliable.

Most Sudanese Arabs are similar to Nubians.

Only one of the Sudanese Arabs that got tested was highly African. The Messiria tribe.

The other ones were about as 'Eurasian' as Habeshas (Shaigia, Bataheen, Gaalien - these are Sudanese Arab tribal names).

Perhaps some other untested Sudanese Arab tribes exist like the Messiria, explaining why people get confused by Sudanese Arab looks (from very dark to quite Middle Eastern looking).

 

[convincation]

Northeast African genomic variation shaped by the continuity of indigenous groups and Eurasian migrations

Author summary Northeast Africa has geographic and historical links to Eurasia via the Middle East and the Arabian Peninsula, but the demographic history of the region itself has been more elusive. We investigate genomic diversity of northeast African populations and found a clear bimodal...

journals.plos.org

K4 and K10 in that chart is most reliable.

Most Sudanese Arabs are similar to Nubians.

Only one of the Sudanese Arabs that got tested was highly African. The Messiria tribe.

The other ones were about as 'Eurasian' as Habeshas (Shaigia, Bataheen, Gaalien - these are Sudanese Arab tribal names).

Perhaps some other untested Sudanese Arab tribes exist like the Messiria, explaining why people get confused by Sudanese Arab looks (from very dark to quite Middle Eastern looking).

Is the African component in both sudanese arabs and Nubians Nilotic or Cushitic?

 

[stophatingtho]

I know sudanese dudes who don't even have a tribe, those are the mixed ones, the ones who know what tribe they belong to are the least mixed

 

[Viscount]

What exactly are these people. Some of them look very black and some of them are straight up white but I noticed the vast majority of them like Somali. They claim to be Cushites but natively speak a Nilotic language and on top of that are heavily mixed with Arabs and now most speak Arabic. It’s like everything about them contrasts the other. What exactly is their genetic make up? Are they mostly Nilotic or Cushitic and are Sudanese Arabs and Nubians the same thing and are Beja Cushites considered Sudanese Arabs?

Sudanese have some Central African blood which is absent in Somalis and Ethiopians.

 

[Viscount]

Northeast African genomic variation shaped by the continuity of indigenous groups and Eurasian migrations

Author summary Northeast Africa has geographic and historical links to Eurasia via the Middle East and the Arabian Peninsula, but the demographic history of the region itself has been more elusive. We investigate genomic diversity of northeast African populations and found a clear bimodal...

journals.plos.org

K4 and K10 in that chart is most reliable.

Most Sudanese Arabs are similar to Nubians.

Only one of the Sudanese Arabs that got tested was highly African. The Messiria tribe.

The other ones were about as 'Eurasian' as Habeshas (Shaigia, Bataheen, Gaalien - these are Sudanese Arab tribal names).

Perhaps some other untested Sudanese Arab tribes exist like the Messiria, explaining why people get confused by Sudanese Arab looks (from very dark to quite Middle Eastern looking).

Where did the Sudanese Arabs get the Central African admixture from, was it prior to the Arab Slave Trade or after.

 

[BetterDaysAhead]

Where did the Sudanese Arabs get the Central African admixture from, was it prior to the Arab Slave Trade or after.

i think some azande's migrated to sudan and mixed with some of the locals

 

[TheManWhoIsAlive]

Sudanese Arabs are indigenous people in Sudan who got Arabized. This is a cultural process of assimilation. The native language was replaced with Arabic. Cultural dress and mannerisms are also Arabic. I have a Sudanese colleague. He speaks Arabic and everything. Dark skinned and with wholly hair though. He doesn't deny he's black though.

The same thing happened to the Berbers.

Didn't happen to Somalis as the vast majority speak Somali and have maintained their cultural identity.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

Sudanese Arabs are indigenous people in Sudan who got Arabized. This is a cultural process of assimilation. The native language was replaced with Arabic. Cultural dress and mannerisms are also Arabic. I have a Sudanese colleague. He speaks Arabic and everything. Dark skinned and with wholly hair though. He doesn't deny he's black though.

The same thing happened to the Berbers.

Didn't happen to Somalis as the vast majority speak Somali and have maintained their cultural identity.

The difference between us and them is that there was no actual Arab tribes settling and mixing w us. There are plenty of Arabs in Sudan that actually have a paternal Arab ancestor, same in the Maghreb (Banu Hilal, Sulayim, and the Andalusian Arab refugees from the Reconquista).
North Africa is Arab, Sudan is Arab

 

[The alchemist]

Northeast African genomic variation shaped by the continuity of indigenous groups and Eurasian migrations

Author summary Northeast Africa has geographic and historical links to Eurasia via the Middle East and the Arabian Peninsula, but the demographic history of the region itself has been more elusive. We investigate genomic diversity of northeast African populations and found a clear bimodal...

journals.plos.org

K4 and K10 in that chart is most reliable.

Most Sudanese Arabs are similar to Nubians.

Only one of the Sudanese Arabs that got tested was highly African. The Messiria tribe.

The other ones were about as 'Eurasian' as Habeshas (Shaigia, Bataheen, Gaalien - these are Sudanese Arab tribal names).

Perhaps some other untested Sudanese Arab tribes exist like the Messiria, explaining why people get confused by Sudanese Arab looks (from very dark to quite Middle Eastern looking).

I think Somalis carry some ancient Sahelian stuff besides the Cushitic, in addition to the Ancestral East African. We could say the Northern Sudanese got it from proximity to simplify (impossible to ascertain with limited knowledge), but Somalis don't border these people at all and got the same amount on K17 on a more consistent basis. Dinkas lack the specific component which is maximized in the Zaghawa and Ethiopians probably diluted their portion more through additional geneflow.

Do you have any idea about this?

 

[Apollo]

View attachment 170500
I think Somalis carry some ancient Sahelian stuff besides the Cushitic, in addition to the Ancestral East African. We could say the Northern Sudanese got it from proximity to simplify (impossible to ascertain with limited knowledge), but Somalis don't border these people at all and got the same amount on K17 on a more consistent basis. Dinkas lack the specific component which is maximized in the Zaghawa and Ethiopians probably diluted their portion more through additional geneflow.

Do you have any idea about this?

Hmm, I am a bit skeptical. I trust lower K runs the most because they tend to be based on very reliable ancient components that get reproduced in multiple studies.

The higher the K, it tends to produce clusters based on which groups were samples and how many of each.

That light blue component is essentially a derivative of the earlier Nilo-Saharan component.

That darker light blue (teal) 'Nubian' component also looks kind of 'fake' to me. It looks like a mixed component and an artifact of sampling strategy (lots of sampled Nubians, and potentially some close relatives in there triggering component formation).

 

[The alchemist]

Hmm, I am a bit skeptical. I trust lower K runs the most because they tend to be based on very reliable ancient components that get reproduced in multiple studies.

The higher K runs (meaning the higher K number) tend to produce clusters based on which groups were samples and how many of each.

That light blue component is essentially a derivative of the earlier Nilo-Saharan component.

That darker light blue 'Nubian' component also looks kind of 'fake' to me. It looks like a mixed component and an artifact of sampling strategy.

I guess there is a certain amount of subjectivity to these schemes. How one defines a real deep signature is up for interpretation to some degree.

 

[Apollo]

I guess there is a certain amount of subjectivity to these schemes. How one defines a real deep signature is up for interpretation to some degree.

I think once those Bay region (Somalia) hunter-gatherers finally get genomed and released, then how Somalis behave in those Northeast Africa-wide admix runs will change once again. Just like how Omotics/Ethio-HGs changed the results of Habeshas and Oromos after their genomes got released. Then we might get the full true picture of Somalis ancestral origins and precise percentages.

 

[-adobe_7853]

The vast majority of Sudanese Arabs belong to riverine tribes and have a paternal arab lineage.
they are indistinguishable from Nubians and bejas from a phenotypical basis and both groups have cushitic features.
There is little to no admixture with Nilotics for nubians and Sudanese Arabs.

 

[Apollo]

@Hassan_alnuwbiu

Lmao, are you Sudanese?

 

[-adobe_7853]

@Hassan_alnuwbiu

Lmao, are you Sudanese?

Egyptian nubian

 

[The alchemist]

I think once those Bay region (Somalia) hunter-gatherers finally get genomed and released, then how Somalis behave in those Northeast Africa-wide admix runs will change once again. Just like how Omotics/Ethio-HGs changed the results of Habeshas and Oromos after their genomes got released. Then we might get the full true picture of Somalis ancestral origins and precise percentages.

I also think they will give us a clearer picture. The question is, if they at all are going to be published; do you know of any progress in that aspect?

What happened to the paper about ancient Nubians that was going to be put out?