Taboo subject. But lets be honest here.

[Febbie]

How come some European cities 200yrs ago looked better and had better design infrastructure, planning than some African cities now?

Is it culture? Is it below average IQ among our people… what is it? Can’t all be colonisation.

How come we are terrible at governing & building an advanced society? Why is it we do poorly in GDP figures, child mortality, healthcare outcomes & strong institutions?

Why has Somalia only adopted a written language in 1972? Ancient Romans had this on lock 2000+yrs ago and built powerful ships?

Why are our people so lazy, unproductive and prone to violence and superstition?

 

[ReerVanCadde]

50 years ago - only 5million Somalis existed in all regions
100 years ago less than a million probably

 

[NidarNidar]

The eebs and flows of civilization come and go,

London when the romans conquerered it, it had stone walls, stone buildings, a working sewage system, roads etc... then the anglo saxons took over and kicked out the britons to east coast, the city went into ill repair.

Its wall was partially destroyed, the sewage system in disrepair, the bath houses broken, nothing left behind, this remained for 1000 years, much of Europe got it's fancy building by the slavery or slavery related income.


These types of houses replaced the Roman stone ones, much of london was made from wood until it went into flames source

Take a closer look at history; things are often more complex than they seem. For much of its past, Europe was a battleground, with constant conflicts shaping its development. Significant societal improvements only began when the collective will for progress emerged. For instance, the Early European Farmers were largely decimated by the Bell Beaker culture, which also took many of their women, the only remain being found either north into Scandinavian or deep into the aleps. It is only in recent times that Europe has moved towards greater stability and cooperation.

Somalis or whatever we were called had our time and we wasted it, not being a unified state cost us dearly, we had our Alexander but it wasn't meant to be.

Here are a number of city state that existed 2,000 years ago on the Somali coast.

• Aromata– Known in ancient times as the Cape of Spices, it was an important place for the ancient cinnamon and Indian spice trade.
• Avalites
• Botiala – In ancient times, the port city of Botiala transported goods such as aromatic woods, gum and incense to Indian, Persian and Arab merchants
• Bulhar
• Damo – Ancient port town in northern Somalia. It likely corresponded with the Periplus "Market of Spices". Holds many historical artifacts and structures, including ancient coins, Roman pottery, drystone buildings, cairns, mosques, walled enclosures, standing stones and platform monuments.[23]
• Essina – Ancient emporium possibly located between the southern ports of Barawa and Merca, based on Ptolemy's work.
• Gondal – Ancient town in southern Somalia. It is considered a predecessor of the port city Kismayo.[24]
• Hannassa
• Macajilayn
• Malao – Ancient port city known for its commerce in frankincense and myrrh in exchange for cloaks, copper and gold from Arsinoe and India.
• Miandi
• Mosylon – The most important ancient port city of the Somali Peninsula, it handled a considerable amount of the Indian Ocean trade through its large ships and extensive harbor.
• Mundus – Ancient port engaged in the fragrant gum and cinnamon trade with the Hellenic world.
• Nikon – ancient coastal emporium in the Horn of Africa. It was situated in the vicinity of Port Dunford in the southern Jubaland.
• Opone – In ancient times, the port city of Opone traded with merchants from Phoenicia, Egypt, Greece, Persia and the Roman Empire, and connected with traders from as far afield as Indonesia and Malaysia, exchanging spices, silks and other goods.
• Sarapion – Ancient port city in Somalia. It is the possible predecessor of Mogadishu.
• Salweyn
• Tabae – Ancient port where sailors on their way to India could take refuge from the storms of the Indian Ocean.
• Toniki

 

[Chase]

How come some European cities 200yrs ago looked better and had better design infrastructure, planning than some African cities now?

Is it culture? Is it below average IQ among our people… what is it? Can’t all be colonisation.

How come we are terrible at governing & building an advanced society? Why is it we do poorly in GDP figures, child mortality, healthcare outcomes & strong institutions?

Why has Somalia only adopted a written language in 1972? Ancient Romans had this on lock 2000+yrs ago and built powerful ships?

Why are our people so lazy, unproductive and prone to violence and superstition?

I think this is a unfair take on Northern Somalis at least, who took over Mogadishu in the 90s? Who comprises the majority of the South? Who built somewhat effective State institutions post Somalia's civil war collapse?

Who needs an International force of Africans peacekeepers to babysit them? The South is the constant holding everyone else back, unfair to pin the blame on all of us.

 

[Internet Nomad]

@Three Moons
One fascinating thing I’ve read in the book is a detailed description of the Royal Tombs in Mogadishu. It even marks the place where the tombs are located in; 2 miles away from the Old Town in a valley in between two hills.View attachment 319780

Each succeeding Sultan and their wives are buried in their own separate tombs built of white and black marble filled with gold and marble pedestals with a cupola built on top of the chamber. The European traveler compares it even to tombs of nobility in Europe.View attachment 319781View attachment 319782

Even the Sultan’s kin, court officials, generals and governors/emirs receive the same privilege of residing in the royal tombs.
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He also interestingly enough talks about the scholars of Mogadishu engaging in the arts and sciences more than any other neighboring city.View attachment 319800

Go read those threads and more and you will know there is more than what you at the surface. Just a drop in the water of what has came from somali civilisation.

 

[Khaemwaset]

How come some European cities 200yrs ago looked better and had better design infrastructure, planning than some African cities now?

Is it culture? Is it below average IQ among our people… what is it? Can’t all be colonisation.

How come we are terrible at governing & building an advanced society? Why is it we do poorly in GDP figures, child mortality, healthcare outcomes & strong institutions?

Why has Somalia only adopted a written language in 1972? Ancient Romans had this on lock 2000+yrs ago and built powerful ships?

Why are our people so lazy, unproductive and prone to violence and superstition?

Most of european cities had small nice area but they were all slums.

Paris for example was completely slums and unorganised, until Napolean III decided to forcefully knock down all the slums and built the city again in the late 1800s.

I made a thread of Birmingham I think having their slums knocked down in the 1970s.

Birmingham slums in 1971

Until recently. The cities were always known to be dirty places which is why all the wealthy spent most the year in estates in tbe countryside so I don't know where you got this idea from.

Using genetics is also a bullshit thing, while we had Berbera, Mogadishu, Zelia ect. Julius Caesar invaded Britain and found nothing but naked men with tribal tattoos and round house huts, I visited them myself when I was in school for a trip.

The Romans marched for days in Germania and never found a single large settlement, tbe whole population of Germany was only about a million at the time. The concepts of large towns was foreign to then let alone cities. The only ancient sites you find in Germany were built by Romans and are all on the far western edge of the country bording Latin Europe.

 

[Bari]

50 years ago - only 5million Somalis existed in all regions
100 years ago less than a million probably

Yep and they were spread between a vast amount of land, whereas European nations are quite small with a concentrated population.

 

[Angelina]

Most of european cities had small nice area but they were all slums.

Paris for example was completely slums and unorganised, until Napolean III decided to forcefully knock down all the slums and built the city again in the late 1800s.

I made a thread of Birmingham I think having their slums knocked down in the 1970s.

Birmingham slums in 1971

Until recently. The cities were always known to be dirty places which is why all the wealthy spent most the year in estates in tbe countryside so I don't know where you got this idea from.

Using genetics is also a bullshit thing, while we had Berbera, Mogadishu, Zelia ect. Julius Caesar invaded Britain and found nothing but naked men with tribal tattoos and round house huts, I visited them myself when I was in school for a trip.

The Romans marched for days in Germania and never found a single large settlement, tbe whole population of Germany was only about a million at the time. The concepts of large towns was foreign to then let alone cities. The only ancient sites you find in Germany were built by Romans and are all on the far western edge of the country bording Latin Europe.

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Germanic peoples built cathedrals that have existed for at least a 1000 yrs. You’re talking about a group of people being primitive more than 1700 yrs ago? That’s cope indeed. Look at the massive churches and cathedrals of England, Germany ect, they’re at least 800 yrs and still standing. We don’t even have one building that stood the test of time.

 

[Angelina]

I think this is a unfair take on Northern Somalis at least, who took over Mogadishu in the 90s? Who comprises the majority of the South? Who built somewhat effective State institutions post Somalia's civil war collapse?

Who needs an International force of Africans peacekeepers to babysit them? The South is the constant holding everyone else back, unfair to pin the blame on all of us.

Don’t do this. Before the war, Northerners were coming to the South and not vice versa, even now Northern areas are free from
Violence but it’s still a poverty stricken **** hole that can’t even compete financially with Xamar.

I’d take your claims seriously when people in Northern areas are living better and they’re not.

 

[Yami]

How come some European cities 200yrs ago looked better and had better design infrastructure, planning than some African cities now?

Is it culture? Is it below average IQ among our people… what is it? Can’t all be colonisation.

How come we are terrible at governing & building an advanced society? Why is it we do poorly in GDP figures, child mortality, healthcare outcomes & strong institutions?

Why has Somalia only adopted a written language in 1972? Ancient Romans had this on lock 2000+yrs ago and built powerful ships?

Why are our people so lazy, unproductive and prone to violence and superstition?

I think this is a unfair take on Northern Somalis at least, who took over Mogadishu in the 90s? Who comprises the majority of the South? Who built somewhat effective State institutions post Somalia's civil war collapse?

Who needs an International force of Africans peacekeepers to babysit them? The South is the constant holding everyone else back, unfair to pin the blame on all of us.

Honestly most of the destruction in the south can be blamed on 1 subclan instead of the entirety of Hawiye. Everyone knows who they are so no point mentioning it

 

[Internet Nomad]

Germanic peoples built cathedrals that have existed for at least a 1000 yrs. You’re talking about a group of people being primitive more than 1700 yrs ago? That’s cope indeed. Look at the massive churches and cathedrals of England, Germany ect, they’re at least 800 yrs and still standing. We don’t even have one building that stood the test of time.

Much of our cities have been bombarded routinely by the western colonials.

We have many writing going back into the medieval age saying our cities had 5 story tall buildings all over the place.

We weren’t poor either we had a very lucrative market for a large part of our history.

much of our architectural heritage is swallowed by the sea or bombed to bits.

 

[Khaemwaset]

Germanic peoples built cathedrals that have existed for at least a 1000 yrs. You’re talking about a group of people being primitive more than 1700 yrs ago? That’s cope indeed. Look at the massive churches and cathedrals of England, Germany ect, they’re at least 800 yrs and still standing. We don’t even have one building that stood the test of time.

So they built nice cathedrals? Yes they're good I've been to many but most of everything else was slums. Them building nice churches.

How is it cope bringing up the fact they didn't have cities 1700 years ago? Berbera was founded 3,000 years ago. If your race didn't have cities until the dark age that is an embarrassment.

Somalia has many old buildings, we may not have massive cathedrals but that's not an issue or anything to mean Somalis weren't advanced.

Ibn Battuta visited Mogadishu in 1331 and wrote how the buildings were 4-5 story tall, another source writes that people all across the indian ocean came to Xamar to pursue islamic education in medieval times.

 

[Heavy Mountains]

A lot of the old cathedrals and ancient sites in Europe went through numerous renovations and restorations.

The same can't be said for Somalia or majority of the developing world.

 

[Khaemwaset]

A lot of the old cathedrals and ancient sites in Europe went through numerous renovations and restorations.

The same can't be said for Somalia or majority of the developing world.

Yes so many sites in europe were rebuilt again and again over the centuries meanwhile in Somalia we leave them to rot.

That thousand year old cathedral may only have a few things from the original.

 

[El Nino]

I think this is a unfair take on Northern Somalis at least, who took over Mogadishu in the 90s? Who comprises the majority of the South? Who built somewhat effective State institutions post Somalia's civil war collapse?

Who needs an International force of Africans peacekeepers to babysit them? The South is the constant holding everyone else back, unfair to pin the blame on all of us.

State institutions which 99% relies on gaal mans money I would take bootoda reer PL iyo SL seriously if they managed to built a remarkably better states but the truth is ugly. Even at the lowest point of sons of Hawiye you guys have managed to shit. Some soulsearching is needed to be done. Somali peoples problems go way deeper then x qabiil is the reason for y etc. A population allergic to xamaali is not getting shit done. Start from there.

Amisom are cannon fodder installed by gaalka cad as a last resort barrier. Some of you guys believed a 20 000 strong army with no supply lines and in hostile territory far away from their own areas with people armed to the teeth are the ones holding up the FGS. Common sense is needed. AS routinely wipes out yearly one base with hundreds of casualties.

 

[El Nino]

Anybody believing to be subservient to another is not a man at all. Same way Allah created me, He created that man. Simple as that.

History flows, if you don’t believe in change then f*ck off. Belief in oneself and your people is a must, no negotiation about it.

 

[El Nino]

Honestly most of the destruction in the south can be blamed on 1 subclan instead of the entirety of Hawiye. Everyone knows who they are so no point mentioning it

Negro what has HG done to you, this is not the 1st time you have mentioned us

 

[Three Moons]

Somali cities looked pretty developed 200 years ago with massive fortresses and walls, ancient mosques and harbours.

Prewar Mogadishu was also one of the most beautiful cities on the continent. And much of the underdevelopment / chaotic infrastructure started post-91’ for obvious reasons;

 

[The Oponian Guild]

How come some European cities 200yrs ago looked better and had better design infrastructure, planning than some African cities now?

Is it culture? Is it below average IQ among our people… what is it? Can’t all be colonisation.

How come we are terrible at governing & building an advanced society? Why is it we do poorly in GDP figures, child mortality, healthcare outcomes & strong institutions?

Why has Somalia only adopted a written language in 1972? Ancient Romans had this on lock 2000+yrs ago and built powerful ships?

Why are our people so lazy, unproductive and prone to violence and superstition?

Somali has been written on the wadaad script for a long time, we didn’t adopt a written alphabet in 72, rather we adopted the Latin script in 72.

 

[haye haye]

Somali cities looked pretty developed 200 years ago with massive fortresses and walls, ancient mosques and harbours.

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Prewar Mogadishu was also one of the most beautiful cities on the continent. And much of the underdevelopment / chaotic infrastructure started post-91’ for obvious reasons;

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We don't put anything towards maintenance. Look at all the old buildings in Xamar, they're in disrepair. They put up new buildings and these crumbled buildings are just sitting there. Before someone runs in here and says, well it's the Southerners, Saylac looks terrible and is severely underdeveloped and that's the most historic city in the north.