The Seemingly Never-Ending Debate

Which Side is Worse?

  • Total voters
    47
Mehdi Hassan

Mehdi Hassan

Whimsical fanatic said:
I'm done.

If you are so illiterate that you can't even read a simple Hadith there's no saving you.

And I'm gonna leave you on the note that the Hadith says Ali raped a female prisoner of war as his 'booty'.
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Let me leave you with the note that none of that proves anything. You also made other accusations? Care to prove those?
 
F

firefox

Whimsical fanatic said:
encourage slavery, sexual violence against slaves, honor killings of ex-muslims and calls women inferior to men?
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1. Sexual Violence against Slaves.
The Quran states that you can have sex with your wife and what your right hand posseses, which means slave. When Islam came to Arabia, at that time when wars would take place and captives of war were taken, the ladies there would be used as slaves. When the Quran was revealed prostitution and adultery was very common, so the Quran put a restriction you cannot have sex with anyone except those women you have married and what your right hand posseses. Now Slavery has been abolished, this was a more of a circumstantial decision. Also violence is prohibited. “Ibn ‘Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, reported: Allah’s Messenger He said: Whoso frees his part in a slave, then he still has the wealth that reaches the price of the slave, then the slave is appraised according to the proper price, then he pays to each other his associate their part so that the slave is free. If not, then he only liberates his share only.” (Sahih Muslim)

Whoever has a slave, but they hurt their bodies. So they are required to release him. Prophet Muhammad PBUH said in a hadith which tells of a master who cut off his slave nose.

“Go away because now you are free, then the slave said:” O Messenger of Allah I am maula (slave) who “, He replied:” Maula Allah and His Apostle. “(Ahmad)
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2. Honor Killings in Islam
“There is no such concept in Islam that is called “honor killing”. Islam holds every soul in high esteem and does not allow any transgression upon it. It does not allow people to take the law in their own hands and administer justice, because doing so will be leading to chaos and lawlessness. Therefore, based on this, Islam does not permit such killings.
3. Are Women inferior in Islam?
One of the issues addressed in the holy Quran is the creation of woman and man. Unlike some sacred books saying that: “woman was created out of an inferior stock to that of man or Adam's wife was created from one of his left-side parts of body”, the Quran explicitly states in several verses that woman was created from the nature of man, and from the same essence: “who created you from a single soul, and created its mate from it” (4:1), (7:189).

It is directly and clearly stated in the Quran that the earth and the sky, the clouds and the winds, plants, and animals, all have been created for “mankind” . It means that everything in the universe is there to serve every single human being and not only men.
The Prophet (PBUH) said, “The acquisition of knowledge is compulsory for every Muslim, whether male or female” [3]. Education, learning and gaining knowledge are therefore duties assigned to every woman as much as to every man.

4. Encouraging Slavery.

Firstly, Islam placed restrictions on acquisition of slaves. Prior to Islam, slavery was practised with abandon. Debtors were made slaves, war captives were either killed or made slaves. In weaker nations, people were hunted like animals, killed or captured and reduced to slavery. Islam, in unambiguous terms, forbade its followers to enslave people on any pretext. The only exception was an idolatrous enemy captured in a war which was fought either in self-defence or with the permission of the Prophet or his rightful successors. This exception was, in words of Ameer Ali, “in order to serve as guarantee for the preservation of the lives of the captives.”2

As 'Allamah Tabataba'i has described at great length, prior to Islam strong and dominant people, throughout the world, used to enslave weak persons without any restraint. Important among the “causes” of enslavement were the following three factors:

1. War: The conqueror could do with the vanquished enemy whatever he liked. He could put the arrested soldiers to death, condemn them to slavery or otherwise keep them under his authority or clutch.

2. Domination: A chief or ruler could enslave, depending on his sweet wish, anyone residing under his domain.

3. Guardianship: A father or grandfather had absolute authority over his offspring. He could sell or gift him or her away; could lend him or her to someone else, or exchange him or her with another's son or daughter.
 
Genesis

Genesis

Jimmer said:
The west is a democracy, people can hold different opinions.
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You would have relations between 2 people of the same gender be illegal, there is a difference between holding a different opinion and being intolerant of people that have nothing to do with you.

Tolerant societies in the west must be intolerant of bigots like @Omar del Sur
 
Radical

Radical

Been there, done that
Omar del Sur said:
aren't you a non-Muslim?
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There you go with the labels again, are you mentally capable of supporting your argument with any reasonable material that isn't false dichotomies and using irrelevant terms to discredit people?

No I'm not if that helps
 
O

Omar del Sur

RETIRED
VIP
Primordial said:
You would have relations between 2 people of the same gender be illegal, there is a difference between holding a different opinion and being intolerant of people that have nothing to do with you.

Tolerant societies in the west must be intolerant of bigots like @Omar del Sur
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they can deport me but first let the whites send themselves back to Europe
 
Apollo

Apollo

VIP
Omar del Sur said:
I agree to leave the US as soon as the white people go to Europe. I think I have more right to this soil than they do.
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You'd think such arguments wouldn't work on white people living in Europe. But some ethnic minorities say things like ''I'm not going back. I am staying here. Your country colonized others, so I have the right to live here'' or for Germans ''Well, you guys did the Holocaust, so I have the right to be here''..

Not sure what arguments they use on Scandinavians who didn't do colonization nor holocaust. :lol:
 
J

Juke

VIP
Primordial said:
You would have relations between 2 people of the same gender be illegal, there is a difference between holding a different opinion and being intolerant of people that have nothing to do with you.

Tolerant societies in the west must be intolerant of bigots like @Omar del Sur
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In the West most people are intolerant to all kinds of things: drugs, non-monogamous relationships, in the USA access to health care, etc.

I don't think they should be teaching that bullshit to kids in grade school and indoctrinating kids, I don't think they should be on tv, etc.

It's a mental illness that goes against nature itself.
 
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