What if Greater Somalia was part of the Ottoman Empire? (Alt History)

[Neo-Nidar]

What if the Ottoman Empire incorporated Greater Somalia into its realm, not just the northern Dir lands like before. What Butterfly-effect events would it create/cause? How will it affect the Somali culture? Will there be significant Turkish populations/Kouloughlis in Somalia just like in former Ottoman territories? Will the Osmanli-family member appointed wali be forced to marry into all Samaale clans? Will 'Boqor of Somalis' be added to the titles of the Sultan? Will Somalis be actually loyal to the Sultan? How will it affect Omanis who usually have influence?

@Geeljire

 

[Neo-Nidar]

In 1538 Süleyman I sent a navy to the Indian Ocean. The expeditions continued for about 30 years. Özdemir Pasha the deputy of the admiral conquered the west bank of the Red Sea (roughly corresponding to a narrow coastal strip of Sudan and Eritrea) in 1567 during the reign of Selim II. In 1585, during the reign of Murat III, Ottoman corsair Emir Ali (also called Miral Bey) captured Mogadishu (now capital of Somalia) from the Portuguese navy. But the Ottoman control in Mogadishu continued only for four years.

 

[Geeljire]

It did not incoporate dir land. A somali never believed in being ruled, but only being a ruler.. the ottoman empire ruled almost all the arab countries, but were only Allies with the Somalis..When Awdal empire was weakened Ottoman lended us military Support and protection from the christians . northern somalia was never really occupied by them AT AL

I am not good with ''what if's'' i Have to say, it would be very unlikely that our culture would be impacted in any way. Ottomans would never be able to do what the european colonials couldn't do, which is create class distintictions and subjugation. Somalis at all time was able to repel foreign influence & Authority and keep their social institutions intact, something which other colonies could'nt

 

[Neo-Nidar]

It did not incoporate dir land. A somali never believed in being ruled, but only being a ruler.. the ottoman empire ruled almost all the arab countries, but were only Allies with the Somalis..When Awdal empire was weakened Ottoman lended us military Support and protection from the christians . northern somalia was never really occupied by them AT AL

I am not good with ''what if's'' i Have to say, it would be very unlikely that our culture would be impacted in any way. Ottomans would never be able to do what the european colonials couldn't do, which is create class distintictions and subjugation. Somalis at all time was able to repel foreign influence & Authority and keep their social institutions intact, something which other colonies could'nt

True, but I guess it would be kinda like the autonomous self-ruling Khedivate of Egypt. I guess it would be called Khedivate of Somalia, where the Somali Khedive rules with his Turkish-styled Moustache, a Fez and a Macawis while riding a geel! lol

 

[Geeljire]

In 1538 Süleyman I sent a navy to the Indian Ocean. The expeditions continued for about 30 years. Özdemir Pasha the deputy of the admiral conquered the west bank of the Red Sea (roughly corresponding to a narrow coastal strip of Sudan andEritrea) in 1567 during the reign of Selim II. In 1585, during the reign of Murat III, Ottoman corsair Emir Ali (also called Miral Bey) captured Mogadishu (now capital of Somalia) from the Portuguese navy. But the Ottoman control in Mogadishu continued only for four years.

Where did you get this shit from? Stop copying and pasting random shit from wiki. They are confusing Cosairs for occupation.

The History of the Portuguese, During the Reign of Emmanuel pg.287

After Barawa, Tristão would set sail for Mogadishu, which was the richest city on the East African coast. But word had spread of what had happened in Barawa, and a large troop mobilization had taken place. Many horsemen, soldiers and battleships in defense positions were now guarding the city. Nevertheless, Tristão still opted to storm and attempt to conquer the city, although every officer and soldier in his army opposed this, fearing certain defeat if they were to engage their opponents in battle. Tristão heeded their advice and sailed for Socotra instead.[43] After the battle the city of Barawa quickly recovered from the

The ottomans never liberated mogadishu the portugese never managed set a foot inside of it to begin with. The only time Ottoman came in to play was as cosairs helping us liberate Southeast Africa where the portugese were ruling over arabs and swahilis,

Portuguese rule and Spanish crown in South Africa, 1581–1640 – Page 25

1580s when Ajuran clients of the Somali coastal cities began to sympathize with the Arabs and Swahilis under Portuguese rule and sent an envoy to the Turkish corsair Mir Ali Bey for a joint expedition against the Portuguese. He agreed and was joined by a Somali fleet, which began attacking Portuguese colonies in Southeast Africa.

Ajuurans sent an envoy to ottomans asking for support to liberate Zanzibaris and swahilis in kenya. The dude Mir Ali Bey you qouted never captured mogadishu he captured zanzibar from the portugese on a joint expedition against the Portugese i Southeast Africa.

 

[Neo-Nidar]

Where did you get this shit from? Stop copying and pasting random shit from wiki. They are confusing Cosairs for occupation.

The History of the Portuguese, During the Reign of Emmanuel pg.287


The ottomans never liberated mogadishu the portugese never managed set a foot inside of it to begin with. The only time Ottoman came in to play was as cosairs helping us liberate Southeast Africa where the portugese were ruling over arabs and swahilis,

Portuguese rule and Spanish crown in South Africa, 1581–1640 – Page 25


Ajuurans sent an envoy to ottomans asking for support to liberate Zanzibaris and swahilis in kenya. The dude Mir Ali Bey you qouted never captured mogadishu he captured zanzibar from the portugese on a joint expedition against the Portugese i Southeast Africa.

I see, what about this? http://hornhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/emir-shermaarke-saalax-baasha-1790-1861.html

 

[Geeljire]

I see, what about this? http://hornhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/emir-shermaarke-saalax-baasha-1790-1861.html

Those are fake taarikh blogs. Saaxiib. Stick to historical books. None of that shit ever happened this is faker than that amin osman story.

 

[space]

The Ottomans could barely hold any territory in the Arabian peninsula so unless there was a major divergence in history where the suddenly develop the capability to hold vast inland areas and a better Red Sea fleet, I don't see them ever having a major hold on Somali territory.

What could have happened is that if Ahmed Gurey had more support from the Ottomans then he might have crushed the Ethiopians and Portuguese at Wayna Daga. In that case you would have had the entirety of the Horn of Africa as an Ottoman client state like how Crimea was, at least for a while.

 

[Neo-Nidar]

The Ottomans could barely hold any territory in the Arabian peninsula so unless there was a major divergence in history where the suddenly develop the capability to hold vast inland areas and a better Red Sea fleet, I don't see them ever having a major hold on Somali territory.

What could have happened is that if Ahmed Gurey had more support from the Ottomans then he might have crushed the Ethiopians and Portuguese at Wayna Daga. In that case you would have had the entirety of the Horn of Africa as an Ottoman client state like how Crimea was, at least for a while.

Good predictive analysis, I totally agree

 

[SOMACOON]

Somalis are known for their sense of pride, hence the chaos in Somalia. Each clan is prideful and wont allow others to consume them.
Somalia is known to have enriched its history, rather than it being stolen. No one controlled Somalia, and even the British bombed us.

 

[Geeljire]

Somalis are known for their sense of pride, hence the chaos in Somalia. Each clan is prideful and wont allow others to consume them.
Somalia is known to have enriched its history, rather than it being stolen. No one controlled Somalia, and even the British bombed us.

Time and time again you prove yourself to be the most Self loathing nationalist i have ever seen worse then that Unionist fucktard.

Sense of pride kulaha. We don't have pride we have a sense of nobility and no Somalias unfortunate situation is not because of that but rather becuz of that Russian orphan in your DP and his Tyrannical social communist marxist bullshit pluss all of his Anti-Somali policies.

Sad truth, Reason why you fall in his footsteps and become a disgusting cultural marxist.

 

[SOMACOON]

Time and time again you prove yourself to be the most Self loathing nationalist i have ever seen worse then that Unionist fucktard.

Sense of pride kulaha. We don't have pride we have a sense of nobility and no Somalias unfortunate situation is not because of that but rather becuz of that Russian orphan in your DP and his Tyrannical social communist marxist bullshit pluss all of his Anti-Somali policies.

Sad truth, Reason why you fall in his footsteps and become a disgusting cultural marxist.

The name Geel Jire best fits you, nacasnimadu wey kaa muuqataa.

 

[Geeljire]

The name Geel Jire best fits you, nacasnimadu wey kaa muuqataa.

War niyaw the average Geeljire has more cilmi iyo akhlaq then you! bal adigoo cabuudid ethiopian ah oo hilib cayriin ah cuna. oo aan ilkaha cadayan ayaad soomaliida iyo Geeljire wax ka sheegeysaa. meesha calaacalka kala tag

Nacasad soomaali ma tihid

 

[Tiiri]

in corrected, the ottoman never liberated to Xamar, they were welcome and give provisions from hence they proceed to occupied Mombasa. The ottoman entrenched themselves in the city, with all their forward batteries aimed toward the sea, they did not make any precautions on the landward side where they were attacked by Zimba cannibals. The turk so distracted by this onslaught were defeat by the Portuguese Navy and the surviving turks were evacuated to Portugal where the Admiral converted to Christianity, he died a hostage of the Portuguese forgotten by his sultan.

 

[Neo-Nidar]

in corrected, the ottoman never liberated to Xamar, they were welcome and give provisions from hence they proceed to occupied Mombasa. The ottoman entrenched themselves in the city, with all their forward batteries aimed toward the sea, they did not make any precautions on the landward side where they were attacked by Zimba cannibals. The turk so distracted by this onslaught were defeat by the Portuguese Navy and the surviving turks were evacuated to Portugal where the Admiral converted to Christianity, he died a hostage of the Portuguese forgotten by his sultan.

Damm....

 

[Tiiri]

What if the Ottoman Empire incorporated Greater Somalia into its realm, not just the northern Dir lands like before. What Butterfly-effect events would it create/cause? How will it affect the Somali culture? Will there be significant Turkish populations/Kouloughlis in Somalia just like in former Ottoman territories? Will the Osmanli-family member appointed wali be forced to marry into all Samaale clans? Will 'Boqor of Somalis' be added to the titles of the Sultan? Will Somalis be actually loyal to the Sultan? How will it affect Omanis who usually have influence?
@Geeljire

I like Alternative history, however, but what Ottoman did in Yemen and what their successor the Khedive of Egypt did in Sudan and Harar are any indication than why would you wan to ever be colonized by the Ottoman turks. I love Ottoman history yet in no certain way would i would ever want live as a Rayas (peasant) in the ottoman empire. i think your in love with the fantasy of the ottoman empire rather than the reality of ottoman empire. Yemen was conquered by the ottoman in 15 century, ottoman governor of yemen who was both a government official and a corsair hung the mayor of Aden from the mast of his ship(do not quote me on this part) which send shock waves through out the region and made Ottoman allies in the Indian ocean weary of Ottoman intentions. This incident i posit is precisely the reason why Ahmed Guray dismissed his cohort of 900 trained Janisaries. he feared that their guns could be turned against Adal once Abbysinia was conquered. The turks mismanaged Yemen the most distant province which was heavily exploited for its Coffee plantations. Yemen was not even an autonomous province but a sub-province attach to Egypt. after decades the Yemeni drove the ottoman out of the country for about a century. Khedive Emirs of Egypt expedition into Harar plateau created great hardship for the oromo muslim, they rebel when Egypt finally evacuated the region they left behind a lawless/devastated region easily conquered Menelik.

 

[Tiiri]

The Ottomans could barely hold any territory in the Arabian peninsula so unless there was a major divergence in history where the suddenly develop the capability to hold vast inland areas and a better Red Sea fleet, I don't see them ever having a major hold on Somali territory.

What could have happened is that if Ahmed Gurey had more support from the Ottomans then he might have crushed the Ethiopians and Portuguese at Wayna Daga. In that case you would have had the entirety of the Horn of Africa as an Ottoman client state like how Crimea was, at least for a while.

exactly, Timber for ships had to be transported from Anatolia to the red sea Arsenal, this was immensely expensive and difficult had the Ottomans create a canal across the Red sea perhaps they might have been able to dominate the Horn of africa but i don't think 17th century technology would be up to the task of siffing that much sand.

If Ahmed Guray had conquered Abbysinia, and Ottoman were able to exert some influence over the Adal than we remain a buffer, rather than client or a valued ally. after the Sulayman the Magnificent the empire lost it luster sinking deeper into stupor and corruption. to be rudely awaken out of complacency by the threat from the Austrian Empire and Tsars of Russia. Red Sea is quite for from Ottoman interest when stream ships threaten the Bosporus Straits.

 

[space]

exactly, Timber for ships had to be transported from Anatolia to the red sea Arsenal, this was immensely expensive and difficult had the Ottomans create a canal across the Red sea perhaps they might have been able to dominate the Horn of africa but i don't think 17th century technology would be up to the task of siffing that much sand.

If Ahmed Guray had conquered Abbysinia, and Ottoman were able to exert some influence over the Adal than we remain a buffer, rather than client or a valued ally. after the Sulayman the Magnificent the empire lost it luster sinking deeper into stupor and corruption. to be rudely awaken out of complacency by the threat from the Austrian Empire and Tsars of Russia. Red Sea is quite for from Ottoman interest when stream ships threaten the Bosporus Straits.

It would be interesting to see how the Horn of Africa might have been like if Adal conquered and held Abysinia in the 1500s. I honestly think that the overwhelming majority of Habesha people would be converted into Islam. The Amhara state of Ethiopia is already 20% Muslim without any significant conquest by Muslims there. If a Somali dynasty holds power there for a few centuries you might even have the general population become Somali speakers and assimilated like how the Middle East switched from Aramaic/Hebrew to Arabic after the Muslim Conquests.

A Muslim Somalified Horn of Africa would be quite the power to contend with in later centuries.

 

[waraabe]

southies begging to be enslaved again

 

[space]

I love how Somalis literally cannot see beyond their qabiil for 2 seconds to engaging in speculation lol.