Why did Umar and some of the Scholars and salaf forbid speaking non arabic languages

[bigdogg]

Wallahi i dont wanna cause fitnah or hate to any of these scholars i just want to understand why they forbid speaking in a language other than arabic


here are my reasons why speaking in a language other than arabic isnt haram


1. وَمِنْ ءَايَـٰتِهِۦ خَلْقُ ٱلسَّمَـٰوَٰتِ وَٱلْأَرْضِ وَٱخْتِلَـٰفُ أَلْسِنَتِكُمْ وَأَلْوَٰنِكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ فِى ذَٰلِكَ لَـَٔايَـٰتٍۢ لِّلْعَـٰلِمِينَ surah rum 22

And one of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the diversity of your languages and colours. Surely in this are signs for those of ˹sound˺ knowledge.

How can anyone make haram one of the signs of allah, this ayah was sent down upon muslimeen (the diversity of your [muslims] languages) not the kuffar so no one can say its only for non muslims

we know this is for the believers too due to the end of the ayah "those of ˹sound˺ knowledge."


There are many unconfirmed (seeking confirmation on this myself ) reports of the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and sahaba and salaf speaking non arabic


1 The first hadeeth

The hadeeth of Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him) who said: “I said, ‘O Messenger of Allaah, we have slaughtered an animal that belongs to us and ground a saa’ [a measure of weight] of barley [i.e., we have prepared a meal], so come, you and a group of others.’ The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) shouted, ‘O people of al-Khandaq! Jaabir has made some soor, so come on!’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari in al-Jihaad, Man takallama bi’l-Faarisiyyah wa’l-rataanah, hadeeth no. 3070, 6/183. He also narrated it in two other places, hadeeth no. 4101 and 4102).

Al-Haafiz said: “The former is what is meant here.” (al-Fath, 6/184). He narrated from al-Tabari that this comes from Farsi. He was asked, Doesn’t this means leftovers? He said, That was not leftovers; it was a Persian word referring to an invitation to a meal. (al-Fath, 6/184).

The point here is the word soor, which is a general word for food or for food to which one invites others.

The hadeeth of Umm Khaalid bint Khaalid ibn Sa’eed, who said: “I came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) with my father, wearing a yellow shirt. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, ‘Sanah, sanah.’” (narrated by al-Bukhaari in al-Jihaad, Man takallama bi’l-Faarisiyyah wa’l-rataanah, hadeeth no. 3071, 6/183. He also mentioned it in other places. See hadeeths no. 3874, 5823, 5845, 5993).

Abd-Allaah [‘Abd-Allaah ibn al-Mubaarak (may Allaah have mercy on him), one of the narrators of this hadeeth] said: In Ethiopian it means hasanah, i.e. beautiful. The point here is that he said ‘Sanah, sanah.’ According to some reports, he said, Sanaah, with a lengthened vowel sound.

it was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali took a date from the dates that had been given in charity, and put it in his mouth. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to him in Farsi, “Kikh, kikh!” Do you not know that we do not eat what has been given in charity?” (al-Bukhaari, al-Jihaad, Baab man takallama bi’l-Faarisyyah wa’l-rataanah, hadeeth no. 3072; it is also mentioned in al-Zakaah, Baab maa yudhkar fi’l-Sadaqah li’l-Nabi (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), hadeeth no. 1491, 3/354).

The words “Kikh, kikh,” are words which are said to deter a small child from taking something dirty. It was said that these words are Arabic, or that they are foreign; some said that they were words that had been adopted into Arabic. (See al-Fath, 3/355). What al-Bukhaari did [including it in the chapter on speaking Farsi and other foreign languages] indicates that he thought they were foreign words. And Allaah knows best.


Some companions and salaf as well :

the report narrated by Ibn ‘Asaakir in his Taareekh (Mukhtasar Taareekh Dimashq, 10/297), which was quoted by al-Dhahabi with his isnaad (al-Siyar, 4/103), that ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) said to al-Qaadi Shurayh – whose judgement concerning some matter had impressed him – “qaaloon”, which in (Byzantine) Greek means “Well done!” or “Excellent!”. Shurayh was not a Roman (a Byzantine), nor was he in the land of the Romans; he was from Kindah in the Yemen, and was the governor of Kufa (in ‘Iraq) for sixty years.

Ibn Abi Shaybah narrated – and in the isnaad are some people who are unknown – that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) looked out over the market place and said, “Suhtun wa daast” (Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah, 9/12)

Ibn Abi Shaybah also narrated that Mundhir al-Thawri said: “A man asked Ibn al-Hanafiyyah about cheese. He said, ‘O slave girl, take this dirham and buy some yaneer with it.’ [in some modern editions it says neezah]. So she bought some yaneer and brought it to him.” (al-Musanaaf, 9/12. Yaneer means cheese).

Al-Qurtubi said – attributing it to al-Khateeb – that Abu ‘Abd al-Malik, the freed slave of Umm Miskeen bint ‘Aasim ibn ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, said: “My mistress sent me to fetch Abu Hurayrah and he came with me. When he reached the door he said, ‘Andar?’ She said, ‘Andaroon.’” (al-Jaami’ li Ahkaam al-Qur’aan, 12/218)

Al-Qurtubi said: it was mentioned that Ahmad ibn Saalih said: al-Daraawirdi was one of the people of Isfahaan who settled in Madeenah. He used to say to anyone who wanted to enter, Andaroon, so the people of Madeenah gave him the nickname of al-Daarawirdi. (Al-Jaami’ li Ahkaam al-Qur’aan, 12; also mentioned by al-Dhahabi in al-Siyar, 8/366/218. Andaroon is a Farsi word meaning ‘come in’ etc.)

Habeeb ibn Abi Thaabit said: We used to hear Abu Saalih (i.e., Abu Saalih the freed slave of Umm Haani’) saying Dazawzan, which in Farsi means books. (Narrated by al-Nasaa’i in al-Kubra, 2/252).

the Salaf sometimes used to speak languages other than Arabic. Abu’l-‘Abbaas ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “It was narrated that a group of them used to say word after word in foreign languages.”


No doubt learning arabic for the sake of allah in trying to learn your deen inshallah you will get rewarded for it , but this idea that anyone who speaks a language other than arabic is a "tourist" in islam such statements are heinous

Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Verily, the servant may speak a single word for which he plummets into the Hellfire farther than the distance between East and West.”

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 6477, Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 2988

to call other muslims tourist and use demeaning and degrading words due to something allah has made a sign for the believers is inexplicable.

And finally

Al Qur'an 41:44 If we made it a non-Arabic Quran they would have said, "Why did it come down in that language?" Whether it is Arabic or non-Arabic, say, "For those who believe, it is a guide and healing. As for those who disbelieve, they will be deaf and blind to it, as if they are being addressed from faraway.

this ayah is proof for the effect this had on an najashi who did not speak arabic yet was guided by the quran , was he a tourist in islam ? was his islam inferior ? why didnt he legislate ethiopia to speak arabic ? didnt he know this would divert people away from islam . . . .

 

[Qeelbax]

I have no idea but I'm just here to say there's absolutely nothing wrong with speaking non-arabic. Arabs are not above anyone, there may have been a good reason why but its not because other languages are "bad". Watch Ana Arabs declare Somali to be forbidden.

" And of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your languages and your colors. Indeed in that are signs for those of knowledge." - (Quran, 30:22)

 

[Qeelbax]

to call other muslims tourist and use demeaning and degrading words due to something allah has made a sign for the believers is inexplicable.

what do you mean by this? Not gonna lie I have heard nationalist Arabs say this on TikTok. That we are "tourists" in Islam for not speaking Arabic.

 

[Barni]

I am praying that ana arabs abdis & arab nationalist don’t get a whiff of this.

 

[Garaad diinle]

I strongly agree with you walaal. I think speaking in your native language is permissible in islam.
The arabic language itself have a number of borrowed words such as Khandaq, dirham, dinar, suur as in castle walls, bustan, paradise and much more. I even suspect that the name of cat in arabic "qit" is from latin.

I think we might be a little rigid in our understanding of this topic as opposed to the salaf. We only follow the ijmac and if there is no ijmac on this nor any mention of it being makruh i see no harm in it wa allahu aclam.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Why do ordinary people on social media feel entitled to dispute with Umar ibn al Khattab.

This is a way by which many Muslims are going to end up like Christians. Christians feel like they can all just interpret their religion however they want and this is how Christianity has become extremely watered-down and turned into a joke.

Firstly, the rules regarding this kind of thing have to be understood. There is more to it than just "speaking langauges other than Arabic is banned".

If you are trying to talk to someone about Islam and they only speak English, are you supposed to speak to them in Arabic? Obviously, you should speak to them in English if you can.

But if you speak Arabic and they speak Arabic, you should use Arabic. But for example what if you are doing something to educate non-Arabic speakers? Then it's perfectly fine to use whatever language the audience speaks. For example, I believe it was Ibn Baz who said it was perfectly fine to give the jummah khutbah in the language that the people of the country understand.

So there is absolutely nothing wrong with the rulings as far as speaking Arabic versus other languages and these rulings make perfect sense. We as ordinary people should focus on learning rather than trying to challenge rulings that are well-established.

edit: btw I am not sure as to whether it is true Umar prohibited speaking languages other than Arabic but my point in the first sentence was why would you dispute that view if you believe that was his view... however, what I've laid out here is what has been ruled as far as speaking languages other than Arabic... all this is very well known https://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/360058/knowing-arabic-and-speaking-other-language-without-need


btw for those who are followers of Imam Shafi:

"Imaam Ash-Shaafi'i

said, "…and if he speaks Arabic, then he should not call something by a non-Arabic name, because Allah has chosen the Arabic language and has revealed His Book in Arabic and made it the language of the seal of His Prophets (Muhammad)

; so for this reason we say: Everyone who can learn the Arabic language should learn it, because it is the first language which should be desired, without prohibiting anyone from speaking in a language other than Arabic.""


also, just for things to be very summarized: "The Muslim should not speak in a language other than Arabic without need if he is able to speak Arabic, because the Arabic language is the slogan of Islam and its people." (btw I think "slogan" might be a language mistake and the better word might be "symbol"... I think that might be closer to the intended meaning)

 

[Garaad diinle]

Here is shaykh uthaymeen ruling on learning a language other than arabic. TLDR. It's not haram.

 

[bigdogg]

Why do ordinary people on social media feel entitled to dispute with Umar ibn al Khattab.

This is a way by which many Muslims are going to end up like Christians. Christians feel like they can all just interpret their religion however they want and this is how Christianity has become extremely watered-down and turned into a joke.

Firstly, the rules regarding this kind of thing have to be understood. There is more to it than just "speaking langauges other than Arabic is banned".

If you are trying to talk to someone about Islam and they only speak English, are you supposed to speak to them in Arabic? Obviously, you should speak to them in English if you can.

But if you speak Arabic and they speak Arabic, you should use Arabic. But for example what if you are doing something to educate non-Arabic speakers? Then it's perfectly fine to use whatever language the audience speaks. For example, I believe it was Ibn Baz who said it was perfectly fine to give the jummah khutbah in the language that the people of the country understand.

So there is absolutely nothing wrong with the rulings as far as speaking Arabic versus other languages and these rulings make perfect sense. We as ordinary people should focus on learning rather than trying to challenge rulings that are well-established.

edit: btw I am not sure as to whether it is true Umar prohibited speaking languages other than Arabic but my point in the first sentence was why would you dispute that view if you believe that was his view... however, what I've laid out here is what has been ruled as far as speaking languages other than Arabic... all this is very well known https://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/360058/knowing-arabic-and-speaking-other-language-without-need


btw for those who are followers of Imam Shafi:

"Imaam Ash-Shaafi'i

said, "…and if he speaks Arabic, then he should not call something by a non-Arabic name, because Allah has chosen the Arabic language and has revealed His Book in Arabic and made it the language of the seal of His Prophets (Muhammad)

; so for this reason we say: Everyone who can learn the Arabic language should learn it, because it is the first language which should be desired, without prohibiting anyone from speaking in a language other than Arabic.""


also, just for things to be very summarized: "The Muslim should not speak in a language other than Arabic without need if he is able to speak Arabic, because the Arabic language is the slogan of Islam and its people." (btw I think "slogan" might be a language mistake and the better word might be "symbol"... I think that might be closer to the intended meaning)

i have litteraly given you hadiths of the salaf speaking non arabic languages ? have you glossed over it ? even the ayah at 1. ?? im confused

secondly you said "if umar said this why do you have any dispute on it " i accept the ijtihad of umar but we do not accept any statement other than the prophet (peace be upon him) unless it follows the quran and sunnah and there is no sin on one who wishes to seek understanding on a ruling from umar or anyone other than the messenger (peace be upon him )

One day Caliph Umar during the course of his sermon to the people, said: “If any one marries and fixes a mehr (dowry) for more than 400 dirhams for his wife, I will inflict the prescribed punishment on him and will deposit the excess amount in the Baitu’l-Mal (Public Treasury).”

A woman from the audience called out: “Umar! Is what you say more acceptable or Allah’s ordinance? Does not Allah Almighty say: ‘And if you wish to have (one) wife in place of another and you have given one of them a heap of gold, then take not from it anything.’” (4:20)

Having heard this verse and the retort of the woman, Umar said: “You have better knowledge of fiqh and problems than Umar, all of you, including even the women observing purdah sitting in their homes

was the women sinful here for asking umar on his ruling ?


"The Muslim should not speak in a language other than Arabic" this is making haram what allah has made a sign, refer back to point 1 . , as for the sheikh than this is his ijtihad but it does not make it a binding legislation nor does it make anyone sinful

 

[Omar del Sur]

i have litteraly given you hadiths of the salaf speaking non arabic languages ? have you glossed over it ? even the ayah at 1. ?? im confused

secondly you said "if umar said this why do you have any dispute on it " i accept the ijtihad of umar but we do not accept any statement other than the prophet (peace be upon him) unless it follows the quran and sunnah and there is no sin on one who wishes to seek understanding on a ruling from umar or anyone other than the messenger (peace be upon him )

One day Caliph Umar during the course of his sermon to the people, said: “If any one marries and fixes a mehr (dowry) for more than 400 dirhams for his wife, I will inflict the prescribed punishment on him and will deposit the excess amount in the Baitu’l-Mal (Public Treasury).”




was the women sinful here for asking umar on his ruling ?


"The Muslim should not speak in a language other than Arabic" this is making haram what allah has made a sign, refer back to point 1 . , as for the sheikh than this is his ijtihad but it does not make it a binding legislation nor does it make anyone sinful

I've heard of that story with the woman. I heard the report is weak but I am not sure.

Eh... you wrote a lot in OP but I didn't read it. tbh I'm interested in what the scholars have said. what ordinary people say especially when they're going against the scholars, it does not interest me. I explained the correct view on the issue in my previous post on this thread and I linked a fatwa that explains the correct view.

it doesn't sit right with me, this movement of ordinary people feeling they can challenge the scholars... and especially people like Umar ibn Al Khattab and the salaf. they weren't infallible but I don't think we should just casually challenge them.

 

[al-Mu'tamid المعتمد]

Wallahi i dont wanna cause fitnah or hate to any of these scholars i just want to understand why they forbid speaking in a language other than arabic


here are my reasons why speaking in a language other than arabic isnt haram


1. وَمِنْ ءَايَـٰتِهِۦ خَلْقُ ٱلسَّمَـٰوَٰتِ وَٱلْأَرْضِ وَٱخْتِلَـٰفُ أَلْسِنَتِكُمْ وَأَلْوَٰنِكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ فِى ذَٰلِكَ لَـَٔايَـٰتٍۢ لِّلْعَـٰلِمِينَ surah rum 22



How can anyone make haram one of the signs of allah, this ayah was sent down upon muslimeen (the diversity of your [muslims] languages) not the kuffar so no one can say its only for non muslims

we know this is for the believers too due to the end of the ayah "those of ˹sound˺ knowledge."


There are many unconfirmed (seeking confirmation on this myself ) reports of the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and sahaba and salaf speaking non arabic


1 The first hadeeth





The point here is the word soor, which is a general word for food or for food to which one invites others.



Abd-Allaah [‘Abd-Allaah ibn al-Mubaarak (may Allaah have mercy on him), one of the narrators of this hadeeth] said: In Ethiopian it means hasanah, i.e. beautiful. The point here is that he said ‘Sanah, sanah.’ According to some reports, he said, Sanaah, with a lengthened vowel sound.



The words “Kikh, kikh,” are words which are said to deter a small child from taking something dirty. It was said that these words are Arabic, or that they are foreign; some said that they were words that had been adopted into Arabic. (See al-Fath, 3/355). What al-Bukhaari did [including it in the chapter on speaking Farsi and other foreign languages] indicates that he thought they were foreign words. And Allaah knows best.


Some companions and salaf as well :








the Salaf sometimes used to speak languages other than Arabic. Abu’l-‘Abbaas ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “It was narrated that a group of them used to say word after word in foreign languages.”


No doubt learning arabic for the sake of allah in trying to learn your deen inshallah you will get rewarded for it , but this idea that anyone who speaks a language other than arabic is a "tourist" in islam such statements are heinous



to call other muslims tourist and use demeaning and degrading words due to something allah has made a sign for the believers is inexplicable.

And finally



this ayah is proof for the effect this had on an najashi who did not speak arabic yet was guided by the quran , was he a tourist in islam ? was his islam inferior ? why didnt he legislate ethiopia to speak arabic ? didnt he know this would divert people away from islam . . . .




View attachment 251968

Which salafs forbid speaking non-arabic languages?

 

[Abu Hesi]

Our Ahlu Hadith Somali Sheikhs said you will always be a guest in the deen if you don't understand classical Arabic.

Let's learn our native language first ciyaal hooyo mataalo.

 

[Heavy Mountains]

Our Ahlu Hadith Somali Sheikhs said you will always be a guest in the deen if you don't understand classical Arabic.

Let's learn our native language first ciyaal hooyo mataalo.

Are you a Quran only Muslim?

 

[Abu Hesi]

Are you a Quran only Muslim?

Why you ask that?

 

[Heavy Mountains]

Why you ask that?

I thought u were a Quran only because the Ahlu Hadith terminology looked sus. The vast majority of Muslims follow hadith so what do u mean by Ahlu hadith?

 

[TekNiKo]

Wallahi i dont wanna cause fitnah or hate to any of these scholars i just want to understand why they forbid speaking in a language other than arabic


here are my reasons why speaking in a language other than arabic isnt haram


1. وَمِنْ ءَايَـٰتِهِۦ خَلْقُ ٱلسَّمَـٰوَٰتِ وَٱلْأَرْضِ وَٱخْتِلَـٰفُ أَلْسِنَتِكُمْ وَأَلْوَٰنِكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ فِى ذَٰلِكَ لَـَٔايَـٰتٍۢ لِّلْعَـٰلِمِينَ surah rum 22



How can anyone make haram one of the signs of allah, this ayah was sent down upon muslimeen (the diversity of your [muslims] languages) not the kuffar so no one can say its only for non muslims

we know this is for the believers too due to the end of the ayah "those of ˹sound˺ knowledge."


There are many unconfirmed (seeking confirmation on this myself ) reports of the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and sahaba and salaf speaking non arabic


1 The first hadeeth





The point here is the word soor, which is a general word for food or for food to which one invites others.



Abd-Allaah [‘Abd-Allaah ibn al-Mubaarak (may Allaah have mercy on him), one of the narrators of this hadeeth] said: In Ethiopian it means hasanah, i.e. beautiful. The point here is that he said ‘Sanah, sanah.’ According to some reports, he said, Sanaah, with a lengthened vowel sound.



The words “Kikh, kikh,” are words which are said to deter a small child from taking something dirty. It was said that these words are Arabic, or that they are foreign; some said that they were words that had been adopted into Arabic. (See al-Fath, 3/355). What al-Bukhaari did [including it in the chapter on speaking Farsi and other foreign languages] indicates that he thought they were foreign words. And Allaah knows best.


Some companions and salaf as well :








the Salaf sometimes used to speak languages other than Arabic. Abu’l-‘Abbaas ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “It was narrated that a group of them used to say word after word in foreign languages.”


No doubt learning arabic for the sake of allah in trying to learn your deen inshallah you will get rewarded for it , but this idea that anyone who speaks a language other than arabic is a "tourist" in islam such statements are heinous



to call other muslims tourist and use demeaning and degrading words due to something allah has made a sign for the believers is inexplicable.

And finally



this ayah is proof for the effect this had on an najashi who did not speak arabic yet was guided by the quran , was he a tourist in islam ? was his islam inferior ? why didnt he legislate ethiopia to speak arabic ? didnt he know this would divert people away from islam . . . .




View attachment 251968

The reason why Umar (RA) did this was he noticed as Islam expanded and adopted more languages the original fus7a Arabic was being gramatically changed. People started making mistakes that the original sahabah would never make people started using slang and other borrowed foreign words into their convos. Umar (RA) was a very pragmatic man and knew the hadiths being transmitted and over all Islamic studies would be affected so he temporarily banned it so the Arabic can maintain its original quality. His intentions were pure.

 

[Danakiil]

Is this the reason North Africans don't speak their own languages now

 

[World]

Umar(ra) outlawed marriage to ahlu kitab during his reign

i don’t see any source stating umar banned non arabic but if he did then it was for religious reasons

 

[Heavy Mountains]

Is this the reason North Africans don't speak their own languages now

They speak Arabic because the region was conquered by Arabs, who maintained control until European colonization

 

[reer_ugaas_hussein]

Is this the reason North Africans don't speak their own languages now

Many north africans still speak their language tamazigh, there are ca. 40 milion tamazigh speakers, its egypt and the levant which has been fully arabized not the maghreb. Also Umar ra never ruled the maghreb, it was conquered under the ummayads

 

[Abu Hesi]

I thought u were a Quran only because the Ahlu Hadith terminology looked sus. The vast majority of Muslims follow hadith so what do u mean by Ahlu hadith?

Ahlul Hadith aka Salafi Manhaj