Why fifty and ninety in Somali is different then the rest

[Aurelian]

2: Laba ---> labaa+tan
3: Saddex ---> Sod+don ( t to d and a to o)
4: Afar ---> Afar+tan
5: Shan ---> Kon+ton
6: Lix ---> Lix+dan
7: Todobaad ---> Todobaa+tan
8: Sideed ---> Sidee+tan
9: Sagaal ---> sagaa+shan this end is different but not as fifty.
10: Toban

 

[Midas]

There is a video on YouTube I can't remebr which one but. He talks about how we share the word konton with the afar . But they call five kont or something. And the oromos I think he said call 50 shantam

 

[reer_ugaas_hussein]

There is a video on YouTube I can't remebr which one but. He talks about how we share the word konton with the afar . But they call five kont or something. And the oromos I think he said call 50 shantam

true, afar say 5 as something like konyo/konyu and 50 as kontonu which is similar to our 50. But interstingly supposdly oromo say 5 as shan and 50 as shantama so we have something in between

 

[Som]

2: Laba ---> labaa+tan
3: Saddex ---> Sod+don ( t to d and a to o)
4: Afar ---> Afar+tan
5: Shan ---> Kon+ton
6: Lix ---> Lix+dan
7: Todobaad ---> Todobaa+tan
8: Sideed ---> Sidee+tan
9: Sagaal ---> sagaa+shan this end is different but not as fifty.
10: Toban

No Idea why konton is so different but for 90 I suspect it has to do with the ending consonant of the number 9 Sagaal. Many other words in Somali drop the L and transform it into a SH sound in some cases. Example: Bahal (a thing) , Bahashaan (the thing, this thing), Meel (a place) , Meesha/meeshaan (the place , this place).

 

[Northern Swordsman]

It's konton because in cushitic 5 is actually kon for example the closest languages to somali like afar and saho have
afar: 5 = konoyu and 50 = kontomu
saho: 5 = kon and 50 = kontom

you see somali has shifted the original -k- sound into a -sh- sound hence its shan instead of kon but we surprisingly still preserved the original -k- sound in 50 = konton.

as for 90 it's just the grammatical structure of our language we turn -l- into -sh- sound whenever we use words that end with a -l- and thr female article which end with -da- or -ta- like Bahal would be Bahasha (it's literally just Bahal + ta) or Hawl (work) becomes Hawsha (Hawl + ta)

 

[Aurelian]

It's konton because in cushitic 5 is actually kon for example the closest languages to somali like afar and saho have
afar: 5 = konoyu and 50 = kontomu
saho: 5 = kon and 50 = kontom

you see somali has shifted the original -k- sound into a -sh- sound hence its shan instead of kon but we surprisingly still preserved the original -k- sound in 50 = konton.

as for 90 it's just the grammatical structure of our language we turn -l- into -sh- sound whenever we use words that end with a -l- and thr female article which end with -da- or -ta- like Bahal would be Bahasha (it's literally just Bahal + ta) or Hawl (work) becomes Hawsha (Hawl + ta)

This also a valid theory. thanks for sharing.

 

[Maakhri from dhahar]

5: Shan ---> Kon+ton
9: Sagaal ---> sagaa+shan this end is different but not as fifty.

I mentioned this linguistic phenomenon in my previous article entitled:
( somalispot : Why is Surat Qaaf " سورة ق " ranked fiftieth in the Quran ? ).
Date: June 15, 2024.

I also mentioned this linguistic phenomenon in my post #14.
In the post titled ( somalispot : Is the word maal an arabic loan word ) written by username Midas .
Date: June 18, 2024.

I also mentioned it in my other article titled:
( somalispot : maal / maashiya (ماشية) Somali or Arabic? )
Date: June 18, 2024.

I have written about these linguistic phenomena in dozens of replies on this forum.

By the way, I've noticed that you always ask good questions in your posts .
keep learning

 

[Maakhri from dhahar]

5: Shan ---> Kon+ton
9: Sagaal ---> sagaa+shan this end is different but not as fifty.

This linguistic phenomena found in many languages was called
( shanshana شنشنة / Kashksha كشكشة ) by Arab linguists in the early Middle Ages .

( shanshana شنشنة / Kashksha كشكشة ) : An ancient phonetic phenomenon consisting of changing the sound ( K / g ) to the sound ( Sh ) .

K → Sh / s .
Kon → Shon → Shan .
Kon+ton → Konton
kimmiro ( Afar language ) → shimbir ( Somali language ) and simbirroo ( Oromo language ) .​

الشنشنة هي لهجة أصيلة من لهجات العرب، وإلى الآن تسمع أهل دير الزور السورية، يقولون: شنت، شانت، شنا، كنت، كانت، كنا .. وقد كان بعض قوم الأعراب يقولون في تلبيتهم، لبيش اللهم لبيش

ك ← ش / س ← ت / د

kent → shent
كنت ← شنت

kaanat → shaant
كانت ← شانت

kenaa → shenaa
كنا ← شنا

لبيك اللهم ← لبيش اللهم
labayk allahuma → labaysh allahuma .​

read my post : ( somalispot : Why is Surat Qaaf " سورة ق " ranked fiftieth in the Quran ? ).

Konton in Somali means : fifty.
kontomu in Afar language means: fifty .​

It is also known that the Northern Semitic languages (Aramaic, Hebrew, and Syriac), as well as the Southern Semitic languages , the letter “ K ك ” is changed to the letter “ Kh خ ” .

Example :
the word ( malik ملك ) becomes ( מלך mélekh ملخ ) .
mlk → mlḫ ( mlkh ) .
Malak → mélekh ( méleḫ ) .
ملك ← ملخ​

Therefore, the number “ Konton ” in Somali / and the number “ kontomu ” in Afar language became “ Khamsoon خمسون ” in Arabic language , and “ khamishím חמישים ” in Hebrew language .

Changing the letter “ t ” / the letter “ d ” to the letter “ sh ” / the letter “ s ” is called the wattam " الوتم " , which is a linguistic phonetic phenomenon .

konton / kontomu / qonton / qontomu → khamishím / Khamsoon .

Therefore, the number “ Konton ” in Somali / and the number “ kontomu ” in Afar language became “ Khamsoon خمسون ” in Arabic language , and “ khamishím חמישים ” in Hebrew language .

k / q → ḫ ( kh ) .

t / d / dh → s / š ( sh ) ,
due to Wattam's linguistic phonetic phenomenon " الوتم " .

kntn " Somali " / kntm " Afar " / ( qntn / qntm ) → ḫmšm " Hebrew " / ḫmsn " Arabic " .

konton / kontomu ( qonton / qontomu ) → khamishím / Khamsoon .


كنتن " صومالي " / كنتم " عفري " ← خمشيم " عبري " / خمسون
" عربي"


كنتن " صومالي " / كنتم " عفري " // ( قنتن / قنتم ) // ← خمشيم " عبري " / خمسون
" عربي "


​

 

[Maakhri from dhahar]

It's konton because in cushitic 5 is actually kon for example the closest languages to somali like afar and saho have
afar: 5 = konoyu and 50 = kontomu
saho: 5 = kon and 50 = kontom

you see somali has shifted the original -k- sound into a -sh- sound hence its shan instead of kon but we surprisingly still preserved the original -k- sound in 50 = konton.

as for 90 it's just the grammatical structure of our language we turn -l- into -sh- sound whenever we use words that end with a -l- and thr female article which end with -da- or -ta- like Bahal would be Bahasha (it's literally just Bahal + ta) or Hawl (work) becomes Hawsha (Hawl + ta)

modification and correction for you :

Somali feminine definite suffix : ( -ta / -da ) :
ul ( feminine noun ), so we add the Somali feminine definite suffix
( -ta ), then the ( L ) sound changes to the ( sh ) sound and finally we remove the ( -ta ) sound at the end of the word to become ( usha ) .
ul ( feminine noun ) + somali feminine definite suffix ( -ta ) :
ul + -ta → ulta → ushta → usha ( removing " t " ) .
bil ( feminine noun ) + somali feminine definite suffix ( -ta ) :
bil + -ta → bilta → bishta → bisha ( removing " t " ).

Somali masculine definite suffix (-ka ) :
Bahal + -ka → Bahalka .

Somali feminine definite suffix ( -ta ) :
Bahal + -ta → Bahalta → Bahashta → Bahasha ( removing " t " ) .

( L ) sound changes to the ( sh ) sound :
waalo → wuu waashay ( for male ) .

The sound ( L ) has not been transformed into the sound ( sh ):
waalo → way waalatay ( for the feminine ) .
dhal → wuu dhalay ( for male ) .
maal → wuu maalay ( for male ) .

( L ) sound changes to the ( sh ) sound :
dhal → way dhaltay → way dhashtay → way dhashay ( removing " t " ) ,
( for feminine ) .
maal → way maaltay → way maashtay → way maashay ( removing " t " ) ,
( for the feminine ) .

The ( L ) sound did not change to the ( sh ) sound:
Somali masculine definite suffix ( -ka ) :
walaal + -ka → walaalka .
The Somali first person singular Masculine Possessive Suffix
(-kay / -kayga ) :
walaal + -kay → walaalkay .
walaal + -kayga → walaalkayga .

( L ) sound changes to the ( sh ) sound :
The Somali first person singular Feminine Possessive Suffix
(-tay / -tayda ) :
walaal + -tay → walaaltay → walaashtay → walaashay ( removing " t " ) .
walaal + -tayda → walaaltayda → walaashtayda → walaashayda ( removing " t " ) .

Somali feminine definite suffix ( -ta / -da ) :
walaal + -ta → walaalta → walaashta → walaasha ( removing " t " ) .

fuul → wuu fuulay ( for male )
fuul → way fuultay → way fuushtay → way fuushay ( removing " t " ) ,
( for the feminine ) .


t / d / dh → s / š ( sh ) ,
due to Wattam's linguistic phonetic phenomenon " الوتم " .
fuulis = fuulid ,

fuulin → fuushiin .
fuulan → fuushan .

fuulan → wuu fuushan yahay ( he is riding ) .

fuulan → way fuushan tahay ( she is riding ) .

 

[Northern Swordsman]

t / d / dh → s / š ( sh ) ,
due to Wattam's linguistic phonetic phenomenon " الوتم " .
fuulis = fuulid ,

fuulin → fuushiin .
fuulan → fuushan .

fuulan → wuu fuushan yahay ( he is riding ) .

fuulan → way fuushan tahay ( she is riding ) .

Thank you for the detailed analysis of the grammatical rulings here.

But I would disagree on this part.

You equate thr verb forms you've used for fuulis and fuulid are not the same.


fuulis describes something different to fuulid.

I'm not aware of what it's called but fuulis would be a descriptive verb (ie describing what is done) as in:

Cunto karis
Farda fuulis
Kubad laadis

while the fuulid would be more of a active verb as in:

cunto karid
farda fuulid
kubad laadid

Correct me if I'm mistaken

 

[backgroundISneeded]

Sagaal ~> Sagaashan

sagaal+tan=> sagaaltan => lt = shan

examples.

ul +ta = ulta =usha
Xabaal+ta =xabaalta = xabaasha
Meel+ta = meelta = meesha

lt creates the sound of sh

sagaal+tan = sagaaltan= sagaashan

 

[Iluminate]

Interesting