You only realize how ‘British’ you are when you go abroad.

[Angelina]

Whilst living in the UK, I though I was very Somali and used to downplay any British norms I had, until living in Somalia for months or living in/visiting Arab countries.

Example, people who jump queues and lines horrify me. My blood boils when this happens. It’s not something Brits are used to when in the UK, but in Eastern countries? They have 0 respect for first come serve and lining up in an orderly fashion ! I even had an argument once because of that. I’m usually very classy and try to let things go, but jumping the line? That’s beyond the limit!

Now, time keeping! I hate lateness when it comes to professional meetings. I can stomach lateness when it’s a social gathering, that doesn’t bother me. But being late to work/business meetings I find it be beyond rude and shows you’re not a man/woman of your word and when you do this consistently that makes me think you’re all over the place. Life happens and God knows I’ve been late a few times but when you tell someone you’ll be there for 11 and rock up two hours later and this is consistent? We have a huge issue. This is a big problem with Somalis btw. I had no choice but to accept that it is what it is and when in Rome simply do as the Romans do even when you think it’s ridiculous. ( I cross the line at jumping queues though, I don’t care even if we’re in the middle of souq Bakara in Somalia, I’ll still fight for you trying to push in!)

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What norms do you have that is very much British, American, Canadian or Scandi? Oh and let me not forget the down under folk Reer Australia.

 

[Wervelwind]

I used to work with Somalis and I don't ever want to do that again. No organisation.

 

[Angelina]

Heyy? Why are no one interested in these threads but you’re in interested in Guur and gender war threads!

 

[Angelina]

What made you lot realize you’re more British, American, Scandi or Aussi than you initially thought?

 

[Shayla]

Laziness. I hate Laziness in Somalia. The men barely work and the women spend all their time in beauty saloons. And they judge diaspora women for not being "pretty" and being natural.

However, diaspora Somali women don't have time to sit around in hair saloon, gossiping, whilst their maid cleans the house and the kids get themselves home from school.

I actually noticed women in West do way more 1- on-1 parenting than women in Somalia, who just let the kids roam outside all day.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

In Somalia I conducted all my business before salat ad dhuhr (morning) after that everyone’s gone to their houses for lunch and then a nap, afternoon nothing is happening, just bashaal and people chilling in cafes, you’ve gotta acclimatise yourself to the schedule.

 

[Shayla]

In Somalia I conducted all my business before salat ad dhuhr (morning) after that everyone’s gone to their houses for lunch and then a nap, afternoon nothing is happening, just bashaal and people chilling in cafes, you’ve gotta acclimatise yourself to the schedule.

That's because of the heat.

In Somalia people are in the office/school by 6-7am.

 

[Mcqueeny]

Basic manners like holding the door for the person behind you or assisting someone wiyh a pram or wheelchair. I've travelled to different countries and seen them barged at

 

[The Oponian Guild]

That's because of the heat.

In Somalia people are in the office/school by 6-7am.

Yeah I’m aware, when I was a youngen I went to school at 6, then we’d line up for assembly, recite fatiha, then the national anthem, lessons started at 7 and school finished at 12

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Basically what I’m saying is, business hours are different in Somalia, I’m not saying you can’t work or conduct business after dhuhr but MOST business is conducted before.

 

[Lightshow]

Well done, a non gender war thread.

 

[Tiyeglow]

Yeah, it does get taking used to with the queueing. I have a saying that I created about Somalis that is applicable in mostly all scenarios: 'A Somali will forgive your lack of luuqad but not your lack of miskeen-nimo) - You have to not show miskeenimo, whether that be in queue, when bargaining, when in a meeting, etc.

However, on the otherhand I would argue and acknowledge their system, Westerners (I no longer live in the West) is similar but just ordered/systematic differently (if you have money, i.e. first class, that skipping the line becomes morally right now? How about if my needs are urgent?). British use queuing as a sign of civility, but will be so underhanding and make remarks while smiling in your face. Then we go to white collar crime, literally a whole subsection of crime renamed from corruption just to give it a sophistication. Global south economies aren't industrial nations, where the very concept of starting at 9am sharp and finishing at 5pm came from. I'm not excusing tardiness, however industrial societies are set up in a way that if you do not come at 9am, the work cannot be completed as it is group work while non-industrial societies are mainly informal independent work, you open up early you make more, you open up late it hurts your pockets. I always find it funny how any Westerner can try claim that those in the GS are 'lazy' when the majority wake up after Fajr, around 6am and work until Duhr, 12pm, have a nap (as per the Sunnah), then get back to work from Asr until Isha with Maghrib as break in between. That's quite a shift. Imagine a Westerner thrown into that and be shocked at them waking up at 7:30am to get ready for 9am, they'll legitimately tell you half the day is gone.

I highlight all this to not turn a blind eye to all these issues but to show that this is all cultural differences, it is snobbish to try to look at another culture and refer to it as lesser. If there are legitimate behaviour difference which those in the South should adopt and fits in line with culture then yes I am all for accepting them, however at the end of the day, these are all Dunya attributes - the whole concept of enjoining good and forbidding evil is regarding the Akhira, that's what attributes we should be supporting each other with and emphasising on. One of the best sayings I have come across is: 'Have the same level of patience you had for the non-Muslims while living abroad as your Muslims while visiting/living here'. That is true Eeman, an obnoxious, lazy, disrespectful person you are dealing with in a Muslim land.... is still a Muslim, at the very least you can tell them to fear Allah and deal with you properly, even if it doesn't work, you did what you can and you move on. How many times have we all been disrespected by a Karen and have had to turn the other cheek because it could escalate into something far bigger which we would not have the time + effort for. These are just some thoughts about this issue, we have to becareful of stepping the line of snobbery and doing to our literally brothers & sisters, what the cadaan tries to do to us, James Baldwin has a quote regarding this actually, where he mentions the African American, although indignified in his home country, when he goes abroad uses and brandishes his 'Americaness' to do to others what is done to him.

 

[Angelina]

Well done, a non gender war thread.

No one seems interested in these threads!

 

[Angelina]

Yeah, it does get taking used to with the queueing. I have a saying that I created about Somalis that is applicable in mostly all scenarios: 'A Somali will forgive your lack of luuqad but not your lack of miskeen-nimo) - You have to not show miskeenimo, whether that be in queue, when bargaining, when in a meeting, etc.

This is one of my biggest issue. I only realized from living abroad that I have a very British temperament. I value politeness and usually revert to a fake British smile as they call it when someone does something untoward out of embarrassment rather than clapping back as they say. Don’t get me wrong, once people push my buttons, I can be aggressive but it takes time for me to reach that limit and due to this Somalis back home will see me as ‘miskeen’. I find talking out of turn and just Willy nilly voicing unneeded opinions as ‘ceeb’ and ‘rude’ and I really value privacy and people minding their damn business which isn’t really a concept for Somalis.

One thing that really bothered me is how people like to try each other there and coming across as meek or easily walked over will have people taking real advantage.

However, on the otherhand I would argue and acknowledge their system, Westerners (I no longer live in the West) is similar but just ordered/systematic differently (if you have money, i.e. first class, that skipping the line becomes morally right now?

People are told the terms and conditions before hand and this isn’t a case with regards to daily things like supermarkets, offices and the like. Airlines have a right to do that since people are paying extra money and those in economy are completely fine since they’re opted for a cheaper service.

How about if my needs are urgent?). British use queuing as a sign of civility, but will be so underhanding and make remarks while smiling in your face. Then we go to white collar crime, literally a whole subsection of crime renamed from corruption just to give it a sophistication.

I understand this and also find the hypocrisy nauseating, but the issue with Somalia
Is that corruption is so rife in day to day life that you’re afraid of being scammed for the most simplest of things and it’s to the point that people now trust foreigners more especially when it comes to building projects and the like which I will get into.

Global south economies aren't industrial nations, where the very concept of starting at 9am sharp and finishing at 5pm came from. I'm not excusing tardiness, however industrial societies are set up in a way that if you do not come at 9am, the work cannot be completed as it is group work while non-industrial societies are mainly informal independent work, you open up early you make more, you open up late it hurts your pockets. I always find it funny how any Westerner can try claim that those in the GS are 'lazy' when the majority wake up after Fajr, around 6am and work until Duhr, 12pm, have a nap (as per the Sunnah), then get back to work from Asr until Isha with Maghrib as break in between. That's quite a shift. Imagine a Westerner thrown into that and be shocked at them waking up at 7:30am to get ready for 9am, they'll legitimately tell you half the day is gone.

I see where you’re coming from, but unfortunately it is a nightmare when it comes to dealing with bureaucracy and applications and stuff like building homes and it’s he business related stuff. I don’t have an issue with set timings of working at 6 and finishing at 1-2. That’s 7-8 hours of work and provided that people are getting to work on time and actually doing their job properly it isn’t an issue but having to deal with offices and dealing with work issues, my experiences and that of family has been that people are incredibly tardy and lazy whilst they’re are work.

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I highlight all this to not turn a blind eye to all these issues but to show that this is all cultural differences, it is snobbish to try to look at another culture and refer to it as lesser. If there are legitimate behaviour difference which those in the South should adopt and fits in line with culture, these are all Dunya attributes.

I think I can’t help but be snobby when you see unethical and haram practices that’s seen as acceptable due to cultural reasons. Being a person of your word is paramount, being orderly on a day to day basis moves things quicker and more efficient and creates more trust in society and the list continues. Organization is incredibly important.

One of the best sayings I have come across is: 'Have the same level of patience you had for the non-Muslims while living abroad as your Muslims while visiting/living here'. That is true Eeman, an obnoxious, lazy, disrespectful person you are dealing with in a Muslim land.... is still a Muslim, at the very least you can tell them to fear Allah and deal with you properly, even if it doesn't work, you did what you can and you move on. How many times have we all been disrespected by a Karen and have had to turn the other cheek because it could escalate into something far bigger which we would not have the time + effort for. These are just some thoughts about this issue, we have to becareful of stepping the line of snobbery and doing to our literally brothers & sisters, what the cadaan tries to do to us, James Baldwin has a quote regarding this actually, where he mentions the African American, although indignified in his home country, when he goes abroad uses and brandishes his 'Americaness' to do to others what is done to him.

 

[Aseer]

My Accent, When I went to kenya I expected to fit in with the other diaspora kids and get the expected shunning from the fobs but it didnt turn out that way I was stuck in the middle cause the diaspora kids could barely understand me cause of my thick accent and saw me as some alien and same thing for the fobs overtime I managed to alter my accent and the way I spoke to better fit in and be accepted

P.S There was a fellow aussie guy at my boarding school who was larping as british to this day I dont understand how the yanks around him fell for it

 

[Lightshow]

No one seems interested in these threads!

I never took you for a controversy peddler, more like a freedom fighter overwhelmed with the task ahead of them taking a small break from the wars.

 

[Tiyeglow]

I think I can’t help but be snobby when you see unethical and haram practices that’s seen as acceptable due to cultural reasons. Being a person of your word is paramount, being orderly on a day to day basis moves things quicker and more efficient and creates more trust in society and the list continues. Organization is incredibly important.

I admit the cheating and corrupted pratices seen in business is one that has no excuse or cultural input. That one saddens me and having ancedotally seen Hoyo having to go back and forth from the motherland to the West because the house being built kept 'needing more money', it made me lose interest in investment, another friend had to acccept the sunk cost and stop his house from being built since the cost became insurmountable... as soon as he left the workers in Uganda. How have we as Muslims reached a stage where we look for the Sunnah being practiced elsewhere, its honestly sad.

My initial comments justifying and stating cultural differences was partly my belief but partly it was admittedly me having to cope and rationalise why the Global South behave the way they do, because without doing so it is near impossible to survive. Another cope for me is comparing the social relations, where in the UK it is close to blasphemy to speak to someone on the train, bus, or while carrying out daily errands (my friend from USA came over and he was so sociable with everyone on TFL and I just let him be but it was hilarious how out of touch it felt to me, not to him though - Americans in general sometimes aren't as uptight as Brits honestly). A famous shiekh spoke about how he got a great sheikh from Mauritainia to come as a speaker in UK and collected him from heathrow, they caught the train and the Mauritainian sheikh asked in genuine fascination if there was a disaster or incident that happened given the public commuters macabre and somber look on all of their faces. I say all that to add that mental health is an issue there because of the individualism, while the GS family values and tight knit society creates a feeling of home. Given the individualism gene cannot be taken out the box, Western societies can never revert back to this form of society, however GS can be trained to learn and accept the ideals and norms that we are speaking about, some food for thought in terms of optimism I guess.

 

[Somali Saayid]

Whilst living in the UK, I though I was very Somali and used to downplay any British norms I had, until living in Somalia for months or living in/visiting Arab countries.

Example, people who jump queues and lines horrify me. My blood boils when this happens. It’s not something Brits are used to when in the UK, but in Eastern countries? They have 0 respect for first come serve and lining up in an orderly fashion ! I even had an argument once because of that. I’m usually very classy and try to let things go, but jumping the line? That’s beyond the limit!

I was genuinely shocked I thought this was the norm all around the world, I'll never forget the distaste 11 year old me felt for these grown men who couldn't wait their turn, I almost got beaten up too after I told a 30+ year old man that I was before him and he looked at me and then turned to his friends and started trashtalking me right in front of my face until I got what I was sent for.

The best part was I found out the guy who was managing the desk and handing out the bottles of caano geel was from the same clan, subclan and sub-subclan (he recognized me from a funeral) as me I complained to him and he got the guy and his lackeys sent to the back of the line and they lost out on the best bottles and got the older stuff sitting in the back.

 

[Angelina]

I was genuinely shocked I thought this was the norm all around the world, I'll never forget the distaste 11 year old me felt for these grown men who couldn't wait their turn, I almost got beaten up too after I told a 30+ year old man that I was before him and he looked at me and then turned to his friends and started trashtalking me right in front of my face until I got what I was sent for.

The best part was I found out the guy who was managing the desk and handing out the bottles of caano geel was from the same clan, subclan and sub-subclan (he recognized me from a funeral) as me I complained to him and he got the guy and his lackeys sent to the back of the line and they lost out on the best bottles and got the older stuff sitting in the back.

LOL who said Qabil has no benefit
it worked in handy for you!

 

[A Mean Guy]

I got made fun off for not throwing rubbish on the street.
People back home don’t care about littering and the environment in general.

There was even this guy who, whenever he saw me, would pretend to throw rubbish in the bin, only to toss it on the street instead.

Some people exist just to piss you off.