Why Do Some Muslims Deny Where Allah is?

Keep it a boqol

Keep it a boqol

Allah is rose above the throne. I don’t understand how anyone can arrive to a different conclusion to this despite the overwhelming eveidence.

{Allah, it is He Who has created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them in six days. Then He rose over (istawa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). You (mankind) have none, besides Him, as a Wali (protector or helper) or an intercessor. Will you not then remember (or receive admonition)?} [As-Sajdah 32:4]

{Surely, your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six days and then rose over (istawa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty), disposing the affair of all things.} [Yunus 10:3]

{To Him ascend (all) the goodly words, and the righteous deeds exalt it (i.e. the goodly words are not accepted by Allah unless and until they are followed by good deeds).} [Fatir 35:10]

“He is the First (nothing is before Him) and the Last (nothing is after Him), the Most High (nothing is above Him) and the Most Near (nothing is nearer than Him).} [Al-Hadid 57:3]

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “You are the Most High and there is nothing above You…”
 
Suldaaanka

Suldaaanka

The jaahil in that video is takfiiring individuals who believe what is stated in the Qur’an and authentic ahadith. May Allah guide these innovators.
 
Samaale55

Samaale55

Shaafici
Being bound by space is renders contingency, you'd also have to explain why God -- who existed before creation -- would have His essence change over time. Also in that clip he mentions "physically" which by definition is bodily i.e. "tajsim"
 
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Is Allah above the Throne?​

It is proven in the Quran and Sunnah (prophetic teachings) and by the consensus of the Salaf (early generations) of this Ummah (global Islamic nation) that Allah is above His heavens over His Throne (as befits His Majesty), and that He is the Exalted, Most High. He is above all things, and there is nothing that is above Him. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):

{Allah, it is He Who has created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them in six days. Then He rose over (istawa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). You (mankind) have none, besides Him, as a Wali (protector or helper) or an intercessor. Will you not then remember (or receive admonition)?} [As-Sajdah 32:4]

{Surely, your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six days and then rose over (istawa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty), disposing the affair of all things.} [Yunus 10:3]

{To Him ascend (all) the goodly words, and the righteous deeds exalt it (i.e. the goodly words are not accepted by Allah unless and until they are followed by good deeds).} [Fatir 35:10]

“He is the First (nothing is before Him) and the Last (nothing is after Him), the Most High (nothing is above Him) and the Most Near (nothing is nearer than Him).} [Al-Hadid 57:3]

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “You are the Most High and there is nothing above You…”

There are many similar verses and prophetic narrations. But at the same time, Allah tells us that He is with His slaves wherever they are:

{Have you not seen that Allah knows whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is on the earth? There is no najwa (secret counsel) of three but He is their fourth (with His Knowledge, while He Himself is over the Throne, over the seventh heaven), — nor of five but He is their sixth (with His Knowledge), — nor of less than that or more but He is with them (with His Knowledge) wheresoever they may be.} [Al-Mujadalah 58:7]

Allah has combined mention of His being above His Throne with mention of His being with His slaves in one ayah (verse), where He says (interpretation of the meaning):

{He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six days and then rose over (istawa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty) . He knows what goes into the earth and what comes forth from it, and what descends from the heaven and what ascends thereto. And He is with you (by His Knowledge) wheresoever you may be.} [Al-Hadid 57:4]

How is Allah close to us?​

Saying that Allah is with us does not mean that He is mixed with (or dwells in) His creation; rather He is with His slaves by His knowledge. He is above His Throne and nothing is hidden from Him of what they do. With regard to the verse (interpretation of the meaning):

{And We are nearer to him than his jugular vein (by Our Knowledge).} [Qaf 50:16]

Most of the exegetists said that what is meant is that He is near by means of His angels whose task it is to record people’s deeds. And those who said that it means that He is near explained it as meaning that He is near by His knowledge, as is said concerning how He is with us.

This is the view of Ahl As-Sunnah wal-Jama`ah (followers of prophetic guidance), who affirm that Allah is above His creation and that He is also with His slaves, and they state that He is far above dwelling in His created beings.

With regard to the denial of all Divine attributes as voiced by the Jahmiyyah (a deviant sect) and their followers, they deny that His Essence is above His creatures and that He rose above His Throne, and they say that He is present in His Essence everywhere. We ask Allah to guide the Muslims.

And Allah knows best.

 
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Narrated Mu'awiyah b. al-Hakam al-Sulami:
I said: Messenger of Allah, I have a slave girl whom I slapped. This grieved the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ). I said to him: Should I not emancipate her? He said: Bring her to me. He said: Then I brought her. He asked: Where is Allah ? She replied: In the heaven. He said: Who am I ? She replied: You are the Messenger of Allah. He said: Emancipate her, she is a believer.

حَدَّثَنَا مُسَدَّدٌ، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى، عَنِ الْحَجَّاجِ الصَّوَّافِ، حَدَّثَنِي يَحْيَى بْنُ أَبِي كَثِيرٍ، عَنْ هِلاَلِ بْنِ أَبِي مَيْمُونَةَ، عَنْ عَطَاءِ بْنِ يَسَارٍ، عَنْ مُعَاوِيَةَ بْنِ الْحَكَمِ السُّلَمِيِّ، قَالَ قُلْتُ ‏:‏ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ جَارِيَةٌ لِي صَكَكْتُهَا صَكَّةً ‏.‏ فَعَظَّمَ ذَلِكَ عَلَىَّ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقُلْتُ أَفَلاَ أُعْتِقُهَا قَالَ ‏:‏ ‏"‏ ائْتِنِي بِهَا ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ ‏:‏ فَجِئْتُ بِهَا قَالَ ‏:‏ ‏"‏ أَيْنَ اللَّهُ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَتْ ‏:‏ فِي السَّمَاءِ ‏.‏ قَالَ ‏:‏ ‏"‏ مَنْ أَنَا ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَتْ ‏:‏ أَنْتَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ‏.‏ قَالَ ‏:‏ ‏"‏ أَعْتِقْهَا فَإِنَّهَا مُؤْمِنَةٌ ‏"‏ ‏.

sunnah.com

Sunan Abi Dawud 3282 - Oaths and Vows (Kitab Al-Aiman Wa Al-Nudhur) - كتاب الأيمان والنذور - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic
sunnah.com sunnah.com
 
Keep it a boqol

Keep it a boqol

Samaale55 said:
Being bound by space is renders contingency, you'd also have to explain why God -- who existed before creation -- would have His essence change over time. Also in that clip he mentions "physically" which by definition is bodily i.e. "tajsim"
Click to expand...
stop trying to philosophize everything and just read the quran. Take what allah says and the hadiths for what they are as it befits his majesty and don’t think too much about the how
 
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Praise be to Allah.

The people of Sunnah and Jama’ah (adherents to the prophetic way) believe that Allah is exalted above His creation because of the evidence of the Quran, Sunnah (prophetic traditions), consensus of the scholars, common sense and man’s innate instinct (fitrah).

(1) The Quran describes the "exaltedness" or "highness" of Allah in different ways, as His being high and above, and by describing how things come down from Him, and go up to Him, and by stating that He is above heaven. For example (interpretations of the meaning):

(Highness):
"… and He is the Most High, the Most Great." [2:255]
"Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High." [87:1]

(Above):
"And He is the Irresistible, above His slaves …" [6:18]
"They fear their Lord above them, and they do what they are commanded." [16:50]

(Things coming down from Him):
"He arranges (every) affair from the heavens to the earth … " [32:5]
"Verily We: it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e., the Quran) …" [15:9]

(Things going up to Him):
"… To Him ascend (all) the goodly words, and the righteous deeds exalt it …" [35:10]
"The angels and the Rooh (Jibreel) ascend to Him …" [70:4]

(Allah is above heaven):
"Do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven, will not cause the earth to sink with you …?" [67:16]
(2) The Sunnah: Many reports were narrated "mutawatir" (i.e. with a large number of narrators at every stage of the isnad/chain, such that it is impossible for them all to have agreed on a lie) from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), describing his words and deeds and things of which he approved. For example, he used to say "Subhana Rabbi al-A’la (Glory be to my Lord Most High)" in sujood (prostration), and in some ahadeeth (reports) he is reported to have said "By Allah Who is above the Throne."

Among his deeds is the gesture of pointing up with his finger, when addressing the people in the greatest gathering, on the Day of ‘Arafah during his Farewell Pilgrimage. He asked the people, "Have I not conveyed the message?" and they said, "Yes!" He asked again, "Have I not conveyed the message?" and they said, "Yes!" He asked a third time, “Have I not conveyed the message?" and they said "Yes!" Each time, he said: "O Allah, bear witness!" - pointing up to the sky and then at the people. He also used to raise his hands towards heaven when he made du’a (supplication), as reported in many ahadeeth. This is proof via his actions that Allah is exalted and high.

An example of an approval of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) which indicates that Allah is exalted and high is the hadeeth (report) concerning the young slave girl, to whom the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: "Where is Allah?" She said: "In heaven." He asked, "Who am I?" She said, "The Messenger of Allah." So he said to her master: "Set her free, for she is a believer."
This young girl was uneducated, as many are, and she was a slave, but she knew that her Lord is above heaven. Some misguided people deny that Allah is above heaven, and say, "He is neither above nor below; neither to the right nor to the left. He is everywhere!"

(3) The consensus of the scholars: The salaf (pious predecessors) agreed that Allah is above heaven, as is reported by scholars such as al-Dhahabi, may Allah have mercy on him, in his book Al-‘Aluw li’l-‘Aliy al-Ghaffar.

(4) Common sense: Highness is a quality which is associated in people’s minds with perfection. If this is the case, then it should be attributed to Allah because every absolute perfection should be attributed to Him.
(5) The innate instinct of man (fitrah). There should be no dispute that man instinctively knows that Allah is above heaven. Whenever something overwhelming befalls a person, and he turns to Allah for help, he looks towards heaven, not in any other direction. But it is strange that those who deny that Allah is above His creation still raise their hands in supplication to no other direction than towards heaven.

Even Pharaoh, the enemy of Allah who disputed with Moosa (peace be upon him) about his Lord, told his minister Haman (interpretation of the meaning):
"O Haman! Build me a tower that I may arrive at the ways, - the ways of the heavens, and I may look upon the god of Moosa …" [40:36-37]

He knew in his heart of hearts that Allah is real, as He says (interpretation of the meaning): "And they belied them (those ayat/signs) wrongfully and arrogantly, though their own selves were convinced thereof …" [27:14]

These are a few of the indications that Allah is above the heavens; this proof comes from the Quran, the Sunnah, the consensus of the scholars, common sense, man’s own instincts and even the words of the non-Muslims.

We ask Allah to guide us towards the Truth.

And Allah knows best

 
D

daljirkadahsoon

Samaale55 said:
Being bound by space is renders contingency, you'd also have to explain why God -- who existed before creation -- would have His essence change over time. Also in that clip he mentions "physically" which by definition is bodily i.e. "tajsim"
Click to expand...
You are right walaal don't allow people confused by the mujassima to throw you off. Those shameless people are responsible for putting people off with their disgusting and stupid interpretations some of them will say wal iyadubillah that 'you are closer to Allah at the top of the minaret than you are at the bottom' like what Fir'awn said lol.

Our aqeedah is summarised in Surah Ikhlas. There is nothing like Allah and He cannot be likened to his creation. That eliminates these brainless arguments about 'where' Allah is- such a question is blasphemous and not even a question that can be asked for Allah is not bound by time or space.

Otherwise they fall into straight up blasphemy for they will have to explain how Allah existed 'before' the Universe- i.e before the creation that has these qualities and Allah is not subject to change nor does He have any contingent quality but He is the First and the Last, the One, free of all need
 
DojaKhat

DojaKhat

The title is crazy to me wallahi I have never in my life seen even the least practicing of Muslims deny that Allah is above the Heavens and the temporary universe we inhabit.

Not even atheists who go in with anti-Islam criticism base any of their points in Allah (SWT) being anywhere but above us tf

Where are you guys meeting these people?
 
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DojaKhat said:
The title is crazy to me wallahi I have never in my life seen even the least practicing of Muslims deny that Allah is above the Heavens and the temporary universe we inhabit.

Not even atheists who go in with anti-Islam criticism base any of their points in Allah (SWT) being anywhere but above us tf

Where are you guys meeting these people?
Click to expand...

people post these things and then the asharis say "the ummah is ashari"
 
Keep it a boqol

Keep it a boqol

DojaKhat said:
The title is crazy to me wallahi I have never in my life seen even the least practicing of Muslims deny that Allah is above the Heavens and the temporary universe we inhabit.

Not even atheists who go in with anti-Islam criticism base any of their points in Allah (SWT) being anywhere but above us tf

Where are you guys meeting these people?
Click to expand...
intresting i ask some people they’ll tell me “he’s everywhere”

Most people don’t question these basics but also the op in the original is probably one of those philosophy islamic bros. It corrupts your islam and can lead you to innnovation. very dangerous

Omar del Sur said:
people post these things and then the asharis say "the ummah is ashari"
Click to expand...
Most people don’t know what ashari is or aqeedah or the different thoughts. Just “Wahhabi”, sufis and shia
 
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