Ajuuran Sultans

[ggoat]

Looking at historical maps and sources-- It's a multi-ethnic empire with Somalis at the head, with northern Dirs and Karanle Hawiye making up the Somali part. When it comes to the tribal lineage of the ruling sultans oral and written history diverge, while sources do point to the ruling clans, at least during the infamous time of Ahmed Gurey, being Karanle Hawiye and many of ruling class coming from northern dirs and karanles.

You need to share these fake tribes and maps

 

[JamalFarah]

You need to share these fake tribes and maps

This thread is about the rules of Ajuraan, I can make a thread some time these week with all sources about the lineage of Adal.

It's challenging to take you seriously when you claim that Jebertis, in general, comprised 90% of Adal. Asserting that Jebertis make up 90%, even though Somalis as a whole didn't even make up 90% of Adal, suggests a lack of interest in an honest historical discussion. Dismissing Somali clans as "fake" is unproductive, Especially considering Dir and Hawiye in general are the oldest clans historically written about, that we have sources for. Adal and Ajuraan are integral parts of Somali history, and their lineage is secondary to their shared Muslim and Somali identity.

Using terms like "hoteps" and adopting an confrontational attitude undermines constructive dialogue. There is no written or oral tradition supporting the idea that Adal was ruled by Jebertis, if you have any I'd gladly take a look.

 

[ggoat]

This thread is about the rules of Ajuraan, I can make a thread some time these week with all sources about the lineage of Adal.

It's challenging to take you seriously when you claim that Jebertis, in general, comprised 90% of Adal. Asserting that Jebertis make up 90%, even though Somalis as a whole didn't even make up 90% of Adal, suggests a lack of interest in an honest historical discussion. Dismissing Somali clans as "fake" is unproductive, Especially considering Dir and Hawiye in general are the oldest clans historically written about, that we have sources for. Adal and Ajuraan are integral parts of Somali history, and their lineage is secondary to their shared Muslim and Somali identity.

Using terms like "hoteps" and adopting a confrontational attitude undermines constructive dialogue. There is no written or oral tradition supporting the idea that Adal was ruled by Jebertis, if you have any I'd gladly take a look.

We know the qabils mentioned and Abtirsi. Don’t make dumb statements such as dir and hawiye are older as if that makes a difference. Provide actual evidence to support this. BTW habar maqdi is Jidwaaq

 

[Aseer]

Looking at historical maps and sources-- It's a multi-ethnic empire with Somalis at the head, with northern Dirs and Karanle Hawiye making up the Somali part. When it comes to the tribal lineage of the ruling sultans oral and written history diverge, while sources do point to the ruling clans, at least during the infamous time of Ahmed Gurey, being Karanle Hawiye and many of ruling class coming from northern dirs and karanles.

No it was majority somali and then followed by hararis and some afars and Yemeni expeditionaries.

 

[JamalFarah]

No it was majority somali and then followed by hararis and some afars and Yemeni expeditionaries.

Multi-ethnic simply means that minorities make up a significant percentage.

 

[Aseer]

Multi-ethnic simply means that minorities make up a significant percentage.

Yes but it's basically a somali kingdom.

 

[Step a side]

wE WUz..... What a bunch of fake revisionist history....

Nigga Mursade was my favourite Hawiye until you and that little goof weird moist fob @galhareeri came along

No one gives a damn if you like us or not. You will not get away with fabricating history.

Wasn't adal karanle? (Sorry if I am mistaken I am quite uneducated on somali clans)

They are allergic to facts. This is Somali history and they want to distort it. This image below is basic 11th grade Ethiopian textbook on Gurey. Even the childeren are taught about Gurey

Karanle hoteps need to stop claiming Darod figures and tribes. Some people have real abtirsi

Show me the abtirsi then? It’s actually revisionism to deny the truth. Hobat is a Hawiye dhul. We still live there. You don’t have no ties to that Kingdom It’s literally equivalent to your Puntland. Imagine if I was to claim Garoowe Ahmed Sami a Muslim Harari scholar of Turkish/Arab origin could access ottoman and portugese records and knows futuh Al habesha like the back of his hand. Futuh habesha isnt even complete, a whole 2nd volume is missing and yet karanle subsubclans and deegaans are all over first futuh while you are making random statements Humble yourself!

This thread is about the rules of Ajuraan, I can make a thread some time these week with all sources about the lineage of Adal.

It's challenging to take you seriously when you claim that Jebertis, in general, comprised 90% of Adal. Asserting that Jebertis make up 90%, even though Somalis as a whole didn't even make up 90% of Adal, suggests a lack of interest in an honest historical discussion. Dismissing Somali clans as "fake" is unproductive, Especially considering Dir and Hawiye in general are the oldest clans historically written about, that we have sources for. Adal and Ajuraan are integral parts of Somali history, and their lineage is secondary to their shared Muslim and Somali identity.

Using terms like "hoteps" and adopting a confrontational attitude undermines constructive dialogue. There is no written or oral tradition supporting the idea that Adal was ruled by Jebertis, if you have any I'd gladly take a look.

Let them cry online saxib. All they are showing me is their inferiority complexity and I enjoy it.

You need to share these fake tribes and maps

You consult the people of knowledge when a topic requires knowledge. Be it family, manuscripts, other accounts etc. Ppl that were living in Gragns generations have preserved his lineages and passed it down. Have you ever heard of manuscripts that contradict each other? We have Yemeni scholars (Ba Alawi), Harari scholars and Amhara scholars who all collect consistent manuscripts that are in agreement dating back centuries right upto Futuh and the Futuh itself. Further historians like German Manfredd Kropp, Syrian Leyla Sabaq, Amhara Berhanu Kamal and Mekuria etc have come to the same conclusions. The Balaw Karanle of the Futuh still live in Dakhato (Za'ka) and Hobat, 2 towns in the Futuh where the Imam lived in and owned houses there. Their lineages are stated as Garanle in Futuh. Scholars who had access to all the copies of Futuh quoted the Futuh when showing his lineage tree. First image are Sami’s credentials and 2nd is the actual lineage tree.

This is the 1k page “state funded” research dedicated to the imam. The original manuscript sits in Harar library. Mkuria compares all foreign chronicles as well as medieval Sarsa Dengle’s and Portuguese chronicles! Ewald Wagner who also worked with Ahmed Sami was one of 3 foreign authors in Ethiopia, alongside Cerulli, Button & Paulitschke, Mekuria uses the work of all three, they produced an important monograph of nearly 1K published pages about Gragn that is accepted in the capital state university

 

[Zob]

No one gives a damn if you like us or not. You will not get away with fabricating history.


They are allergic to facts. This is Somali history and they want to distort it. This image below is basic 11th grade Ethiopian textbook on Gurey. Even the childeren are taught about Gurey

View attachment 319747


Show me the abtirsi then? It’s actually revisionism to deny the truth. Hobat is a Hawiye dhul. We still live there. You don’t have no ties to that Kingdom It’s literally equivalent to your Puntland. Imagine if I was to claim Garoowe Ahmed Sami a Muslim Harari scholar of Turkish/Arab origin could access ottoman and portugese records and knows futuh Al habesha like the back of his hand. Futuh habesha isnt even complete, a whole 2nd volume is missing and yet karanle subsubclans and deegaans are all over first futuh while you are making random statements Humble yourself!

Let them cry online saxib. All they are showing me is their inferiority complexity and I enjoy it.

You consult the people of knowledge when a topic requires knowledge. Be it family, manuscripts, other accounts etc. Ppl that were living in Gragns generations have preserved his lineages and passed it down. Have you ever heard of manuscripts that contradict each other? We have Yemeni scholars (Ba Alawi), Harari scholars and Amhara scholars who all collect consistent manuscripts that are in agreement dating back centuries right upto Futuh and the Futuh itself. Further historians like German Manfredd Kropp, Syrian Leyla Sabaq, Amhara Berhanu Kamal and Mekuria etc have come to the same conclusions. The Balaw Karanle of the Futuh still live in Dakhato (Za'ka) and Hobat, 2 towns in the Futuh where the Imam lived in and owned houses there. Their lineages are stated as Garanle in Futuh. Scholars who had access to all the copies of Futuh quoted the Futuh when showing his lineage tree. First image are Sami’s credentials and 2nd is the actual lineage tree.

View attachment 319744

View attachment 319743

This is the 1k page “state funded” research dedicated to the imam. The original manuscript sits in Harar library. Mkuria compares all foreign chronicles as well as medieval Sarsa Dengle’s and Portuguese chronicles! Ewald Wagner who also worked with Ahmed Sami was one of 3 foreign authors in Ethiopia, alongside Cerulli, Button & Paulitschke, Mekuria uses the work of all three, they produced an important monograph of nearly 1K published pages about Gragn that is accepted in the capital state university

View attachment 319746

Nobody is believing that fake 15mins revisionist history, this debate is for another thread, we would all appreciate if you just stop derailing every potentially good thread self-aggrandizing about Karanle and Mursurade

 

[Step a side]

Nobody is believing that fake 15mins revisionist history, this debate is for another thread, we would all appreciate if you just stop derailing every potentially good thread self-aggrandizing about Karanle and Mursurade

Amiir Abu Bakr ibn Gasa ibn Omar was from Hobat. Hobat is dhul Hawiye till this day. You can die of ciil.

 

[Zob]

Amiir Abu Bakr ibn Gasa ibn Omar was from Hobat. Hobat is dhul Hawiye till this day. You can die of ciil.

I don't even have 7 seconds to respond to your nonsense every clan claims Ahmed Guray and Adal and every one has sources some are real some are fake yours is fake from low class sources and doesn't have any coherence. Not gonna bother to go tit for tat with you everyday bye.

Start a new thread about Adal and Ahmed Guray.

 

[Haragwaafi]

Ajuiran was the closest to a kingdom that Somalis have got to before the Hawiye clans rebelled against them restoring the clan rule in the south.

 

[Step a side]

I don't even have 7 seconds to respond to your nonsense every clan claims Ahmed Guray and Adal and every one has sources some are real some are fake yours is fake from low class sources and doesn't have any coherence. Not gonna bother to go tit for tat with you everyday bye.

Start a new thread about Adal and Ahmed Guray.

You’re capping hard because no one has sources but the Karanle. It’s 2024. Disputing about Gragn’s identity with all the evidences available will only make you sound jealous. Adal was not your average tribal enclave. It was centred in Hararge and involved multiple groups. Walashma were the family of Yusuf al Kownayn. Gragn was the family of Karanle military leaders. His father was chief of all Karanle and Hawiye tribes of Hobat which was the Mogadishu of Western Somalia. His relative Emir Abu Bakr replaced him in Hobat. Gragn and his father have ruled Adal but the majority Karanle line who ruled Adal was the Adash and Mahfuz family while Mohamed Ibrahim Gasa's line were the majority of Awsa line.

 

[Step a side]

Ajuiran was the closest to a kingdom that Somalis have got to before the Hawiye clans rebelled against them restoring the clan rule in the south.

Ajuuraan in particularly the Gareen family are Hawiye.

 

[Three Moons]

Ajuiran was the closest to a kingdom that Somalis have got to before the Hawiye clans rebelled against them restoring the clan rule in the south.

If either Adal or Ajuraan had survived just another century or more, one of them could have done for the Somali people what Prussia did for the German people.

 

[Haragwaafi]

Ajuuraan in particularly the Gareen family are Hawiye.

It was a dynasty ruling over most of the south like any other monarchy out there before it was overthrown or deposed by the angry clans bringing an end the chance of Somalis having a monarchy that could had ruled much of somaliweyn.

 

[Step a side]

If either Adal or Ajuraan had survived just another century or more, one of them could have done for the Somali people what Prussia did for the German people.

It was a dynasty ruling over most of the south like any other monarchy out there before it was overthrown or deposed by the angry clans bringing an end the chance of Somalis having a monarchy that could had ruled much of somaliweyn.

You are right but empires/sultanates come and go. We have chance now to build something great.