Aksumite rule over northern Somalia?

[BidaarBoy]

@Idilinaa Every thing you said above I already addressed, some of the shit you said is just straight lies. There is no archeological data confirming the periplus claim that 1st century Somalia was independent and even if there was that’s irrelevant, we’re talking about the 3rd century, and I already said when habeshas conquered they mostly left the locals alone so long as they paid tribute and didn’t raid/pirate ships. Also we have no clue how Christianity reached Somalia, it could have been through trade or conquest or a combination of things which is most likely.

In all the areas Axum conquered they left their settlements, structures and diaspora presence. Both in the highland, coastal area between Eritrea and Sudan and in South Arabia and there are numerous inscriptions left behind that speak about it. Take a read:

Your just lying now. You said this before and I already debunked it, show me Axumite structures in the Eastern Desert, show me Axumite structures in 3rd century Tihama. You clearly haven’t read the paper you posted, I have and it doesn’t support your claim.


And you just straight up ignored half of what I said just like Riftvalley LOL
Nice of you to just ignore Ge’ez writing and Axumite architectural influences found in Somaliland near the coast, influences that date right to the time period this conquest was said to have taken place in.

 

[BidaarBoy]

The thing is, somalia isn't located on the east of adulis rather on the south?

The coast of Somaliland is south east but more east

 

[Idilinaa]

@Idilinaa Every thing you said above I already addressed, some of the shit you said is just straight lies. There is no archeological data confirming the periplus claim that 1st century Somalia was independent and even if there was that’s irrelevant, we’re talking about the 3rd century, and I already said when habeshas conquered they mostly left the locals alone so long as they paid tribute and didn’t raid/pirate ships. Also we have no clue how Christianity reached Somalia, it could have been through trade or conquest or a combination of things which is most likely.

Your just lying now. You said this before and I already debunked it, show me Axumite structures in the Eastern Desert, show me Axumite structures in 3rd century Tihama. You clearly haven’t read the paper you posted, I have and it doesn’t support your claim.


And you just straight up ignored half of what I said just like Riftvalley LOL
Nice of you to just ignore Ge’ez writing and Axumite architectural influences found in Somaliland near the coast, influences that date right to the time period this conquest was said to have taken place in.

There is archeology confirming that there was trading outposts during that same time frame, trading and importing same stuff mentioned in the periplus, & other greco-roman writings and those sites don't show any Axumite occupations and was occupied by totally independent people practicing mixed economic activities with high purchasing power.

And there is no axumite architectural influences in Somaliland uncovered thus far, but there is observable presence of Christianity and trade like in the burials, crosses and geez writing as there is also presence of South Arabian traders and Musnad writing in the same areas related to trade.

 

[BidaarBoy]

@Idilinaa You’re legit just repeating the same stuff that I already addressed multiple times now. No point in continuing at this point, have a good one.

 

[Idilinaa]

@Idilinaa You’re legit just repeating the same stuff that I already addressed multiple times now. No point in continuing at this point, have a good one.

I am simply mentioning the facts that we currently have, anything else is speculative.

 

[Laser]

The coast of Somaliland is south east but more east

If he went to conquer somaliland he would go south, also scholars hold the believe it's actually talking about hadhramut instead of Somalia. There is incense gathering people and is located on east of adulis.

The king of adulis wasn't axumite either btw, probably he was a greek. Cosmas the only man who had access to the inscription said he's a ptolemy greek.

 

[BidaarBoy]

The king of adulis wasn't axumite either btw, probably he was a greek. Cosmas the only man who had access to the inscription said he's a ptolemy greek.

Bro what he was not a Greek you know the Ptolemy that went to the region of Eritrea literally predates this text by 400+ years, what an insane baseless claim. Cosmas bases his claim largely on the fact that the text was in Greek not knowing Greek was used in Adulis/Axum and used for Ezanas inscriptions. Why is the writing style between Ptolemys inscription and the Adulis one completely different? Why isn’t there a single Greek text attesting to the conquest of Adulis and Axum? Ptolemy made his territory very clear and always mentioned the land he conquered, he never mentions conquering this region please stop

scholars hold the believe

Majority of scholars believe it’s a reference to Danakil or Somaliland. And Yemen was never once known as Barbaria nor they did call themselves something akin to “Solate”, “Seasea” obvious reference to Somali and Cise

If he went to conquer somaliland he would go south

Somaliland is not south of Adulis, I’m not gonna argue semantics with you especially when it’s silly shit like this. Egyptian texts mention them moving north to conquer the Asiatics, I guess that never happened then because Asiatics were actually North East of Egypt. This is your brain dead logic in action.

 

[BidaarBoy]

The mental gymnastics in this thread are truly astounding. Saying there’s no evidence for OPs claim, if we were this stringent with how we look at our own history then we’d have to wipe away like 80% of it lol and same for the rest of the world, but because it’s Habashis the rules are different

 

[Laser]

Bro what he was not a Greek you know the Ptolemy that went to the region of Eritrea literally predates this text by 400+ years

According to who? Even the locals admit foreign people predated them in adulis, and the name it's of the city "adulis" is of greek origin.

Cosmas bases his claim largely on the fact that the text was in Greek not knowing Greek was used in Adulis/Axum and used for Ezanas inscriptions.

No he doesn't lol, he never says that. He simply says the inscription that he only had access to (at least wrote it down) belonged to a greek, also ezana inscription included ge'ez words not the same here.

Why is the writing style between Ptolemys inscription and the Adulis one completely different?

How is it "completely" different?

Why isn’t there a single Greek text attesting to the conquest of Adulis and Axum? Ptolemy made his territory very clear and always mentioned the land he conquered, he never mentions conquering this region please stop

Ptolemy inscription in adulis gives insight to many things even outside his conquest in ethiopia, and how did it belong to an axumite if the inscription itself says he conquered axum? + the lands of the so called "axumites" which he reduced to subjection?

Majority of scholars believe it’s a reference to Danakil or Somaliland. And Yemen was never once known as Barbaria nor they did call themselves something akin to “Solate”, “Seasea” obvious reference to Somali and Cise

Lol if you're saying Cissa somalis existed in that time you just a one deluded mf, read the scholar I've sent and the inscription doesn't say he conquered "barbaria" but an incense gathering people located on the east of his country.

Somaliland is not south of Adulis

 

[Laser]

The mental gymnastics in this thread are truly astounding. Saying there’s no evidence for OPs claim, if we were this stringent with how we look at our own history then we’d have to wipe away like 80% of it lol and same for the rest of the world, but because it’s Habashis the rules are different

 

[BidaarBoy]

According to who?

Maybe because we have actual inscriptions left by Ptolemy III detailing his conquests in Asia using local Eritrean elephants in the 3rd Century BC?? But the other text dates from the 3rd Century AD??? The text left by Ptolemy III himself, the man you’re claiming to have conquered Adulis/Axum doesn’t even make any mention of this even though he embellished his conquests he still makes no reference to conquering any part of East Africa. The fact that you even asked this shows me you don’t know what you’re saying. You’re at your computer scrambling for anything rn it’s obvious

Even the locals admit foreign people predated them in adulis

So disingenuous and lazy it’s honestly sad lowkey lol. The locals say their direct ancestors had nothing to do with it they don’t say it was foreigners. The current locals are Afars and Saho the ancient Adulite people were Semitic and called “Tigrete” clearly a reference to Tigre/Tigrinya/Tigray. So much for your Greek Adulis joke.

I know next you will scream about references to so called “Romi” people but again this doesn’t work for you because Ptolemeic dynasty was Greek not Roman so that makes no sense to connect the two.
You are throwing shit at a wall praying something will stick.

name it's of the city "adulis" is of greek origin.

The etymology of Adulis is unclear I know exactly what you’re citing by the way so know I see how you’re deliberately being dishonest and just straight up lieing

No he doesn't lol, he never says that. He simply says the inscription that he only had access to (at least wrote it down) belonged to a greek, also ezana inscription included ge'ez words not the same here.

He doesn’t have to say it dummy, we know one inscription is from Ptolemy III and the other is not. He assumes they are both from Ptolemy III based on the fact that they are both in Greek, and part of the tablet was missing so the king’s titles would have been lost. So he read the local inscriptions as a continuation of the Ptolemy one.

Ptolemy inscription in adulis gives insight to many things even outside his conquest in ethiopia, and how did it belong to an axumite if the inscription itself says he conquered axum?

why doesn’t the Ptolemy inscription mention conquering Adulis? Or any other place in East Africa? His text talks about Ethiopian elephants but never conducting a conquest there. Why are there no Macedonian/Egyptian texts even suggesting they conquered Eritrea + Northern Ethiopia? You can’t address any of these issues.
Also I said the text was Adulite not Axumite.


Periplus visited the coast of Eritrea in the 1st century, he describes the people as Ethiopians and troglodytes, he makes no mention of Greeks. Why does every single source describe the coastal Eritreans at this time as “Ethiopians” or “Troglodyte” but makes no mention of Greeks.

Why is Adulis material culture almost identical in terms of regional affinities with Axumite culture and other highlanders? If you’re correct then Greeks ruled Adulis for 400+ years yet they left no significant cultural impact compared to other areas of Ethio and Eritrea? Even though they often “hellenised” their subjects?

Why do 3rd century South Arabians describe the Adulites as “Habashat”? Are Greeks habesha now? The 3rd century is when the Adulite conquest of SW Arabia happened so that was done by Greeks who South Arabians called Habesha???

You can’t answer any of these questions

and the inscription doesn't say he conquered "barbaria" but an incense gathering people located on the east of his country.

Another lie, every single translation obviously differs but every single one without fail contains a variation of Barbaria, sometimes barbarians, Barbaria, barbarous.

 

[The alchemist]

Habash rulers often claimed lands that they never controlled. It could be pure propaganda.

However, taking on a needed rigorous posture, this could be a minor place in the Danakil areas - a narrow geographic scale. Going to conclusion by attributing the texts towards control of the northern Somali coastal region if not parts of it is unacceptable.

The archeological evidence in the coastal areas has not shown an Axumite phase. The materials are diverse and mainly of artifacts from Southern Arabia and MENA.

Christian burials show evidence of religious pluralism. Many of the groups we had contact with had Christian backgrounds. We were in more contact with Southern Arabians, Romans, and general MENA than Axumites. If Axum had colonized (or however you want to frame it) the region, we'd see the consequences of that in the material record.

 

[BidaarBoy]

The archeological evidence in the coastal areas has not shown an Axumite phase

Why would they show an Axumite phase? The texts says the king left them alone as long as they guarded the sea. Habesha generally didn’t interfere much in local affairs and usually let the locals be.

Also it’s way too premature to say anything as of yet IMO, the state of archaeological research in Somalia is pretty bad as I’m sure you know.
But even then Axumite finds have been found in Somalia and there’s possible architectural influence in Amud.


"Three deserted cities inland in the former British Somaliland were also investigated, the most interesting of which is Amud. Here there
are from 250 to 300 houses and a temple, which had been converted roughly into a mosque at some later date. It was built of carefully dressed masonry, and the building techniques, pottery, and lamps seem
to suggest a close connection with Axumite sites of the second to fifth centuries a.d.”

2nd to 5th century lines up perfectly with this text which was made in the 3rd.

 

[Laser]

Maybe because we have actual inscriptions left by Ptolemy III detailing his conquests in Asia using local Eritrean elephants in the 3rd Century BC?? But the other text dates from the 3rd Century AD??? The text left by Ptolemy III himself, the man you’re claiming to have conquered Adulis/Axum doesn’t even make any mention of this even though he embellished his conquests he still makes no reference to conquering any part of East Africa. The fact that you even asked this shows me you don’t know what you’re saying. You’re at your computer scrambling for anything rn it’s obvious

How's the other text from 3rd century if he was literally conquering future axumites lands? Launching from adulis that was never axum's capital? The inscription seems to mention Tigrayans by name too: Tziama.

See? All so called axumite lands lol, launching from adulis.
The inscription obviously dates back to pre axumite era, at least before they became anything.
Also the text was left there during his last reigning year:

Ptolemy last year of reigning:

The locals say their direct ancestors had nothing to do with it they don’t say it was foreigners. The current locals are Afars and Saho the ancient Adulite people were Semitic and called “Tigrete” clearly a reference to Tigre/Tigrinya/Tigray. So much for your Greek Adulis joke.

I know next you will scream about references to so called “Romi” people but again this doesn’t work for you because Ptolemeic dynasty was Greek not Roman so that makes no sense to connect the two.
You are throwing shit at a wall praying something will stick.

So disingenuous and lazy it’s honestly sad lowkey lol.
Can you share the source of tigrete? Also all i said was they admit foreigners were living in adulis pre them, they were called romi yes. Might just proof late xabashi occupation of the city kkkk, also there's many examples of romans living there; Abraha (the future governor of yemen under axum) was a slave to a roman citizen of adulis.

why doesn’t the Ptolemy inscription mention conquering Adulis? Or any other place in East Africa? His text talks about Ethiopian elephants but never conducting a conquest there. Why are there no Macedonian/Egyptian texts even suggesting they conquered Eritrea + Northern Ethiopia? You can’t address any of these issues.
Also I said the text was Adulite not Axumite.

Didn't he leave the inscription in adulis? In which cosmas told us he was discussing his conquest in the region?

Periplus visited the coast of Eritrea in the 1st century, he describes the people as Ethiopians and troglodytes, he makes no mention of Greeks. Why does every single source describe the coastal Eritreans at this time as “Ethiopians” or “Troglodyte” but makes no mention of Greeks.

The inscription said he conquered Ethiopians, again reference of a foreign conquering natives?
Also periplus lived in 1st century while this conquest happened like 400 years prior.

Why is Adulis material culture almost identical in terms of regional affinities with Axumite culture and other highlanders? If you’re correct then Greeks ruled Adulis for 400+ years yet they left no significant cultural impact compared to other areas of Ethio and Eritrea? Even though they often “hellenised” their subjects?

Speaking greek and worshiping Greek gods ain't significant cultural impact?

Why do 3rd century South Arabians describe the Adulites as “Habashat”? Are Greeks habesha now? The 3rd century is when the Adulite conquest of SW Arabia happened so that was done by Greeks who South Arabians called Habesha???

Well yeah it happened in 3rd century bce, also what south arabians?

The etymology of Adulis is unclear I know exactly what you’re citing by the way so know I see how you’re deliberately being dishonest and just straight up lieing

Are you illiterate? He doesn't exclude the Greek etymology but that pliny suggesting Egyptian slaves founded adulis solely basing it on the word ADULIS being of greek origin is excluded by scholars.
Also interesting thing you brought here, if pliny said that adulis is of greek origins that goes along what the locals said in the same book you're using:

Yeah adulis is undoubtedly a greek name, you're saying it's ethio semitic? What does it mean in your language?

Another lie, every single translation obviously differs but every single one without fail contains a variation of Barbaria, sometimes barbarians, Barbaria, barbarous.

Barbarous is a description, barbaria is a name of a country.

 

[Laser]

He doesn’t have to say it dummy, we know one inscription is from Ptolemy III and the other is not. He assumes they are both from Ptolemy III based on the fact that they are both in Greek, and part of the tablet was missing so the king’s titles would have been lost. So he read the local inscriptions as a continuation of the Ptolemy one.

Yeah he have to say it "dummy", how do we know that? The only man who had access to the inscription said it belonged to one, also the missing part belonged to the table which you're saying is the only inscription for Ptolemy:

The chair which you're claiming belonged to another ruler was perfectly fine, he never mentions anything was messing yet it never mentions another name, in fact it starts with saying he compelled the nations bordering his kingdom with strong hand (meaning force) to live in peace, he then launched expeditions against the other tribes we were talking about:

What does that tell us genius

 

[BidaarBoy]

@Laser Almost everything you’ve just said I’ve already addressed, I’m not gonna waste my time repeating myself for the 3rd time

And no they did not worship Greek gods lmao Ares is equivalent to Mahrem, you know nothing about what your talking about

The chair which you're claiming belonged to another ruler

The fact that you truly believe this is testimony to how retarded you are, Yemeni documents literally tell us this conquest happened around 500 years after Ptolemy but whatever man have a good one I’m not gonna bother anymore

 

[Laser]

@Laser Almost everything you’ve just said I’ve already addressed, I’m not gonna waste my time repeating myself for the 3rd time

And no they did not worship Greek gods lmao Ares is equivalent to Mahrem, you know nothing about what your talking about

The fact that you truly believe this is testimony to how retarded you are, Yemeni documents literally tell us this conquest happened around 500 years after Ptolemy but whatever man have a good one I’m not gonna bother anymore

Brain rot who couldn't respond to my argument, keep coping lad.

 

[Zak12]

@BidaarBoy what do you think of this video showing Aksum's territorial extent? Its clearly exaggerated but we know for certain that Abraha went on expeditions to conquer parts of Arabia

TikTok - Make Your Day

 

[BidaarBoy]

@BidaarBoy what do you think of this video showing Aksum's territorial extent? Its clearly exaggerated but we know for certain that Abraha went on expeditions to conquer parts of Arabia

TikTok - Make Your Day

Yes definitely exaggerated lmao

If they did conquer Somalia they did not hold that much IMO

I think they held the coast and probably never went much further than the mountains. Basically the deep red part of Somaliland on this map was the border.

They did conquer much of Nubia but they didn’t go that far west also Kaleb didn’t hold much land in Nubia. This guy mixed up all of the different conquests into one, Kaleb and Abraha did conquer a lot of Arabia but not Nubia or Somalia AFAIK. We don’t have any inscriptions from Kaleb so it’s hard to say.

 

[Zak12]

Yes definitely exaggerated lmao

If they did conquer Somalia they did not hold that much IMO
View attachment 329303
I think they held the coast and probably never went much further than the mountains. Basically the deep red part of Somaliland on this map was the border.

They did conquer much of Nubia but they didn’t go that far west also Kaleb didn’t hold much land in Nubia. This guy mixed up all of the different conquests into one, Kaleb and Abraha did conquer a lot of Arabia but not Nubia or Somalia AFAIK. We don’t have any inscriptions from Kaleb so it’s hard to say.

I'm more mindblown as to why he think Aksum held any land in the coast of the Persian gulf lmao