Anfac Story is Fake.

[Angelina]

@Galool

Another reason why I’m skeptical is because we know what happened last time when you jumped on a bandwagon and said it was ‘Fake’. Let me remind everyone:

The situation about the man trying to proposition the women into having a secret or temp marriage was later pushed by certain men to be fake, until Lewisham mosque imaams literally had to clear the reputation of the sister and even published a statement of what really transpired and how they met up with both parties and outlined who was really guilty and violating what had happened in the meeting and without actually finding any real proof apart from videos and comments made by the men (culprit) and his sordid camp you then came on here slandering the sister. You essentially jumped the gun and was eager to believe the sister was a liar and probably some sort of ‘feminist’.

The thing is, when people are accused of doing something, even when they did it, it’s unfortunately human nature to deny and even fight and besmirch and unfortunately many men will believe culprits since again, any accusation women make is seen as a direct attack against all men and seen as ‘feminism’.

Therefore it is of no surprise you’re at the forefront of this. In this case, you could be right, but I’m here to explain my rationale and why I know whether something is true or not, you will and are the type of believe the accused regardless which you have shown to all of us in 4K. For your sake I hope you’re right this time!

 

[Devilsadvocate]

@Galool

Another reason why I’m skeptical is because we know what happened last time when you jumped on a bandwagon and said it was ‘Fake’. Let me remind everyone:

The situation about the man trying to proposition the women into having a secret or temp marriage was later pushed by certain men to be fake, until Lewisham mosque imaams literally had to clear the reputation of the sister and even published a statement of what really transpired and how they met up with both parties and outlined who was really guilty and violating what had happened in the meeting and without actually finding any real proof apart from videos and comments made by the men (culprit) and his sordid camp you then came on here slandering the sister. You essentially jumped the gun and was eager to believe the sister was a liar and probably so sort of ‘feminist’.

The thing is, when people are accused of doing something, even when they did it, it’s unfortunately human nature to deny and even fight and besmirch and unfortunately many men will believe culprits since again, any accusation women make is seen as a direct attack against all men and seen as ‘feminism’.

Therefore it is of no surprise you’re at the forefront of this. In this case, you could be right, but I’m here to explain my rationale and why I know whether something is true or not, you will and are the type of believe the accused regardless which you have shown to all of us in 4K. For your sake I hope you’re right this time!

The logic behind this thread makes no sense because this is what he said himself:

Let this be a lesson once again to sincere Muslims to withhold judgement or commentary on a story being spread until it is verified. That way you do not harm innocent Muslims and spread this filth and lies for sicko to benefit from. That is Islamic principles, verify.

This story is far from being verified, this current news is pushed by robertos camp so shouldn’t it make more sense to refrain from commenting until an actual investigation takes place? Even the title of this thread is ridiculous because how can someone prove someone wasn’t r*ped

 

[kamek]

@Galool

Another reason why I’m skeptical is because we know what happened last time when you jumped on a bandwagon and said it was ‘Fake’. Let me remind everyone:

The situation about the man trying to proposition the women into having a secret or temp marriage was later pushed by certain men to be fake, until Lewisham mosque imaams literally had to clear the reputation of the sister and even published a statement of what really transpired and how they met up with both parties and outlined who was really guilty and violating what had happened in the meeting and without actually finding any real proof apart from videos and comments made by the men (culprit) and his sordid camp you then came on here slandering the sister. You essentially jumped the gun and was eager to believe the sister was a liar and probably so sort of ‘feminist’.

The thing is, when people are accused of doing something, even when they did it, it’s unfortunately human nature to deny and even fight and besmirch and unfortunately many men will believe culprits since again, any accusation women make is seen as a direct attack against all men and seen as ‘feminism’.

Therefore it is of no surprise you’re at the forefront of this. In this case, you could be right, but I’m here to explain my rationale and why I know whether something is true or not, you will and are the type of believe the accused regardless which you have shown to all of us in 4K. For your sake I hope you’re right this time!

Him and @Inquisitive_ were the first two people I saw say that Anfac is lying, anyone who looks at their post history will instantly understand, why I’m so skeptical of these claims.

 

[trf]

If you and other people feel embarassed that foreigners are reporting about r*pe/SA in Somalia then you need to look inwards. Maybe somali politicians will suddenly act with international pressure because somali women have been complaining about this for years.

I’m not embarrassed nor did I say I was. I feel bad for the victim. I’m also just thinking critically here and whether these complaints will actually make a difference or are you just further tarnishing the image of Somalis with no actual change for Somali girls.

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How long have Somali feminists been complaining about fgm? Globally Somalis are known for this issue because of these complaints despite it being a practice done to girls all over Africa and parts of Asia. Have fgm rates gone down and have laws been changed to protect young girls due to international shame or has this practice been used as a tool to insult Somalis and Islam?

It’s like you feminists don’t think at all. Somali women aren’t white. We won’t be met with sympathy in the same way. We’ll be met with racism and islamophobia. I want change but complaining to the white man doesn’t bring about change.

 

[Angelina]

The premises of his thread makes no sense because this is what he said himself:

This story is far from being verified, this current news is pushed by robertos camp so shouldn’t it make more sense to refrain from commenting until an actual investigation takes place? Even the title of this thread is ridiculous because how can someone prove someone wasn’t r*ped

@Galool has already commented and slandered a Muslim sister without any form of verification apart from videos of the guy who did in fact make a very inappropriate proposition and his camp of men who were enablers. Lewisham mosque literally had to get involved and outline what really happened and what had happened in the meeting which made it clear that the young man who was accused lacked any form of integrity. Did @Galool follow his advise? Did he apologize about the comments he made about the sister? No, he did not.

This is why I’m saying, it’s an agenda and not really about finding the truth. If he’s right, great if he isn’t may Allah forgive him.

 

[Afar indhood]

As the resident somspot daljoog I can confirm that:

We don't have a grape culture

GRape is not as widespread as other dysfunctional/failed satets

But, what we have is a lack of a system of justice - not only in rape but also in murder, bililiqo, etc.


Ethiopian/indian grape and carab taxarrush, honor killing are cultural phenomena. We don't have those.

Grape in Somalia is much rare than murder, for example.

The only bad thing we have is that, due to clan politics, justice is not usually served, when it occurs (laangaabs wouldn't dare committing grape).

I have witnessed some cases of grape here but it's usually part of the laandheer-on-laangaab abuse.

Unicorn, taintedlove, and devilsadvocate are talking nonsense.

Too many "Hooyo mataallos", "feminazis" and "amxaaro" itt.

The fact that this single case is causing so much uproar is a prove that we don't have a grape culture.

Crimes occur - even in the paradise that's the West. But we shouldn't lose our mind when tragedy happens and make irresponsible generalizations.

We have a dulmi culture - not grape culture.


Giving us internet access was a mistake. Expect more Ls as more daljoog learn how to use the net.

We gonna be India 2.0.

The India of Africa.


BTW, I hope justice is served in the end and xalimos need to cool down.

 

[Angelina]

I’m not embarrassed nor did I say I was. I feel bad for the victim. I’m also just thinking critically here and whether these complaints will actually make a difference or are you just further tarnishing the image of Somalis with no actual change for Somali girls.

Spoiler

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How long have Somali feminists been complaining about fgm? Globally Somalis are known for this issue because of these complaints despite it being a practice done to girls all over Africa and parts of Asia. Have fgm rates gone down and have laws been changed to protect young girls due to international shame or has this practice been used as a tool to insult Somalis and Islam?

It’s like you feminists don’t think at all. Somali women aren’t white. We won’t be met with sympathy in the same way. We’ll be met with racism. I want change but complaining to the white man doesn’t bring about change.

My biggest issue with your cohort is that this isn’t about making things better for women, it’s about simply your reputation. Somalis in fact have the highest rates of FMG and yes you’re right it happens in Egypt in very high numbers nearly at the same rate as Somalis and the same with Sudanis, but simply checking stats, with Somalis at one point it was 98% but it has now lowered.

Btw, the vast majority of Western raised Somali girls haven’t had any form of FMG and it’s because of the campaign of the 90s. That’s the sad truth. Had this not been highlighted, we a group would not have seen this as an issue. Why haven’t the religious class in Somalia for centuries not stopped this, despite knowing the Fircooni type circumcision being haram? Somalis have been Muslim for more than a Millennia and you’re telling me it’s only until the late 80s and 90s they’re realized it’s wrong?

 

[amii.001x]

Dahir Alasow is a scum bag and is known to lie and spread filth. For him, since it doesn't seem like he has a personal connection to the people involved it was probably for money and since he thrives off of sensationalism and slander.

As for her, idk much about her, one can assume for profit and that Dahir Alasow put her up to it but we don't know yet.

Roberto alasow & Dahir alasow are enemies. I’m 100% convinced the girl was graped but it was set up by Dahir alasow. He’s currently blackmailing the poor girl to keep going with the narrative. Roberto has taken the case to court in America & now Dahir is currently back peddling and trying to make this a qabil issue. Anfac is still the victim in all of this

 

[trf]

My biggest issue with your cohort is that this isn’t about making things better for women, it’s about simply your reputation. Somalis in fact have the highest rates of FMG and yes you’re right it happens in Egypt in very high numbers nearly at the same rate as Somalis and the same with Sudanis, but simply checking stats, with Somalis at one point it was 98% but it has now lowered.

Btw, the vast majority of Western raised Somali girls haven’t had any form of FMG and it’s because of the campaign of the 90s. That’s the sad truth. Had this not been highlighted, we a group would not have seen this as an issue. Why haven’t the religious class in Somalia for centuries not stopped this, despite knowing the Fircooni type circumcision being haram? Somalis have been Muslim for more than a Millennia and you’re telling me it’s only until the late 80s and 90s they’re realized it’s wrong?

I’m a girl and also not a new user here. Somali men have already ruined their own reputation. I’m looking out for Somali women and the community.

Somali women in Kenya are doing the right thing by protesting. But crying to cadaans won’t help girls like Anfac. They don’t actually care. They’ll use incidences like this to paint Somalia and Muslims negatively.

I want to see fgm banned but like I said, spreading awareness in the west doesn’t benefit somali women in SOMALIA. These feminists should speak in their language and go back home. Spread awareness of the dangers in Somalia.

A Djiboutian girl was beaten by a male relative for dancing on tiktok and non Somali women insulted Somalis and Islam. They also hoped that every boat with Somalis that tries to come to the west sinks even if there’s women on these boats. But sure keep crying to these western feminists and white men. They’ll help us.

 

[Kisame]

Wow

 

[bobby_hill-Punt]

They made 200k for this fake story

 

[Idilinaa]

Every country/culture has r*pe culture to some capacity. Somalia is not immune to this. Ours is uncontrolled, ripe and normalised. You and other posters on here think rape culture is severe SA or r*pe when that is simply the most extreme form of r*pe culture.
View attachment 358217

What it says at the bottom is key

"Tolerance of the behaviors at the bottom supports or excuses those higher up"

If sexual violence, harassment or abuse happens, it doesn't mean society condones or accepts or enables it. Perpetrators of crime and unwanted behaviour do not usuaully carry out these acts with societies stamp of approval in most countries.

Also at a closer inspection of the bottom list of the pyramid, most of that stuff doesn't even normally occur in Somalia. Women do not get groped, men do not flash or expose themselves, there is no catcalling or even rape jokes. Stalking doesn't happen either.

I find it deeply ironic how some of the most common behaviors listed are not widespread reported problem in Somali society.

We come from a country where phrases like “naag waa weel waax lagu shuubto” and “wixii xunba xawaa leh” are normalised, and there are many more examples like this. Let’s continue looking at the normalisation part of this picture. Somali women at home often wear the niqab because they do not want to be subjected to unwanted attention, as men are often uncontrollable with catcalling. The issue of non-consensual photos and videos is also highly relevant. In Somalia, there is a widespread telegram epidemic, where Somali men share inappropriate videos and pictures of Somali women. This is why reer SL refer to southern Somalia as 'reer telegram' as an insult. There used to be multiple pages with over 100k followers that uploaded unsolicited videos on tiktok of Somali women at Liido Beach, especially when their dresses would stick to them after swimming.

There is also a normalisation of misogyny and inappropriate jokes among young men back home, and it is often brushed off. Watch these videos, and you'll see how prevalent they are. Why do they receive over 100k likes, and why do young children feel comfortable repeating such behaviour aloud? Why does the crowd laugh, as if it is acceptable? If Somali society shuns girls and women by using terms like “isku xishood” and “ceeb”, why are such terms never applied to young men or older men in the same way?

Spoiler: Example 1

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Spoiler: Example 2

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Now look at the assault section of this picture, which represents the most extreme form, as everything leads to this point. Everyone in Somalia and the world knows that sexual assault or r*pe is wrong. Somalia is also a Muslim-majority country, so why is it that when Muslim women face sexual assault or rape, the perpetrators are rarely prosecuted? Why is it that every day, Somali women are on tiktok live crying and advocating for justice? Just a few months ago, an autistic child in Somaliland was assaulted by her grandfather. When her mother went to the police, the officer told her to speak to her clan representative, who outright refused to take the case further, arguing, “How can a grandfather do this to his granddaughter?” The granddaughter is now pregnant. All they need to do is conduct a DNA test and deliver justice, but she has been denied it to this day. Like Anfac and Luul, her case sparked widespread outrage, yet the Somali government and police continue to fail women by denying them justice. Even this video alone speaks volumes. Was this man arrested for threatening mass rape? In what kind of world or society is it normalised to say such things and face no repercussions?


At the end of the day, you and the other posters can act like rape culture isn't a thing in Somalia. All it does is lead to the normalisation of the extreme, which is rape and sexual assault. This country has lacked accountability for women since the day the USC mass raped women, and we all moved on like nothing happened.

I don't really take social media posts, or old clips of militant war criminals as proof or evidence of Somali culture or societal attitudes.

There are social media street interviews where they ask Somalis on the street about random stuff and they just spout nonsensical answers to sound edgy or funny so they can entertain the audience. Also since social media often amplifies outliers and does not necessarily reflect broader societal attitudes.


What i do look at is academic research into Somali societal attitudes.

A qoute from a study written by a prominent female Somali sociologist that have studied this "Cawo Mohamed Abdi"

Convergence of Civil War and the Religious Right: Reimagining Somali Women

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/518393?journalCode=signs

Rape in Somali culture is very stigmatizing. Prior to the war it was rare and severely condemned, making group or clan relations very tense when it occurred. Women's virginity was highly valued, and violating their honor was considered scandalous.

And also another piece of evidence are reports on how government officials, civil service, courts, police etc handle it. You can see there is serious legal consequences and you can also read from the court proceedings they bring in witnesses to do thorough investigation, Somalis from the communities come in to testify and speak out against the perpetrator, sometimes even family members give them out. They even roll out DNA evidence as well, that's the lengths they go to.

So yes they are persecuted.

I can show you other cases where some type of crime or harm has been done to a woman or child and Somalis took to the street in protest inside Somalia demanded justice and accountability from law enforcement. It resulted in the perpetrators being executed by a firing squad

It happens all the time. It shows you that Somalis take it very seriously and don't find it acceptable.

Two Men Executed in Somalia for Rape, Murder of 12-Year-Old

Case was first in Somalia to obtain conviction using DNA

www.voanews.com

2 Somali Soldiers Executed by Firing Squad in Rape of Boy

Authorities say the two men had confessed to raping the 11-year-old child

www.voanews.com

Somali man executed by firing squad for raping three-year-old stepdaughter

A man sentenced to death for raping his three-year-old stepdaughter has been executed by firing squad in southern Somalia’s Jubaland state. BBC reports that the man, Hussein Adan Ali, had been chewing khat leaves, a mild stimulant, when he sexually assaulted the child.

www.hiiraan.com

Rape and Murder Suspect Sentenced to Death by Firing Squad

The Regional District Court of Awdal Somaliland has sentenced a 22-year-old man to death by a firing squad on July 1st for the rape and murder of an underage girl in Lughaya in the east of the country. Mr. Abdi Saeed Mussa, a 22-year-old man from Lughaya was convicted of the heinous crime of...

somalilandchronicle.com

In the anecdotal cases that you mentioned where they are not persecuted, lack of justice in some cases stems from institutional failure rather than cultural acceptance.

Whereas the social media stuff ((Telegram scandals, TikTok issues), non-consensual photos, videos, and online harassment are valid concerns. Can't say i am familiar with it to speak on it, but this is probably linked to a global trend connected with cyber bullying, cyber crime etc that these platforms enable. Somalis are big time victims of Telegram scams even from what i've seen, usually by foreign perpertrators.

The fact that Somali families and communities demand justice for crimes against women suggests that rape is not tolerated

Frankly the way yall speak its as if yall don't understand the ways in which Somali culture operates or how our society works and are importing ideas and beliefs from other cultures, whilst weaponizing problems that stem from political instability that is externally manufactured.

There is no isku xishood or ceeb if someone harms you. Xishood (modesty) and ceeb (shame) are cultural concepts meant to uphold public decency, not to suppress women from seeking justice against harm. It applies to everyone. If you are being harmed or wronged you are not to be blamed for that or shamed.

Somali culture operates under clan/community based protection & social acountability – In Somalia, people operate within strong clan/community networks** where violence or harrassing behavior "brings shame to the entire family/clan. As well as Islam or religious social norms that inform against it.

Somali culture strongly protects women , harm against women is taken seriously by families and communities. Islamic laws provide additional protections for women’s financial rights, safety, and dignity

It is also evidenced by the fact that Somalia has less sex trafficking than other countries around the world, heck you can just look at our neighbors Ethiopia or Kenya, where thousands of women are trafficked every year.

A lot of cultures that condone sexual violence or abuse or cover it up have massive sexual trafficking crime problems and prostitution. Somali women are protected from that type of sexual exploitation.

Take what @Galool said about Ethiopia, it has a massive human trafficking crisis, with women being sold into slavery in the Middle East. The local guides in Ethiopia operate as pimps that sell the bodies of local women to tourists.

There is also the evidence in how Somali women are heavily involved in business - owning shops, running market stalls, and leading financial enterprises

Whereas Sexual harassment and gender-based violence are major barriers for Ethiopian women trying to enter business or work.

Many African women are forced into exploitative jobs, Somali women, by contrast, often work in their own businesses.

Somali women are safer from exploitation, trafficking, and workplace abuse that's what it shows.

 

[Lightshow]

I’m a girl and also not a new user here. Somali men have already ruined their own reputation. I’m looking out for Somali women and the community.

Somali women in Kenya are doing the right thing by protesting. But crying to cadaans won’t help girls like Anfac. They don’t actually care. They’ll use incidences like this to paint Somalia and Muslims negatively.

I want to see fgm banned but like I said, spreading awareness in the west doesn’t benefit somali women in SOMALIA. These feminists should speak in their language and go back home. Spread awareness of the dangers in Somalia.

A Djiboutian girl was beaten by a male relative for dancing on tiktok and non Somali women insulted Somalis and Islam. They also hoped that every boat with Somalis that tries to come to the west sinks even if there’s women on these boats. But sure keep crying to these western feminists and white men. They’ll help us.

You are correct, western groups will only use this as an excuse to demonise Somali people whether male or female.

Issues can only be resolved in a more permanent way internally. This is the case with most things in life. We all have more control over our lives than most assume. Outsourcing and projecting towards an external enemy is not the long term solution.

 

[izzylol]

The only proof that this is fake is Somali guys on live making statements to save their own image now that the story has gone international. Surely if the video is from 2019, you can reverse search it or provide a time stamp.

 

[Rayaale]

Why do somalis blame everything on Ethiopia especially oromos ?? ATP yall are obsessed

Don’t you have Jaarso admixture, technically Oromos

 

[Crook]

Crook, do not take my comment being about the situation at hand because as of now, I have no idea what’s true or and what’s false:

People here have a very unsophisticated view of misogyny. Abuse and prejudice against women cannot fully take place without female foot soldiers who have internalized their inferiority. Misogyny is systematic and impacts the psyche of both men and women. Example, many forced marriages in South Asia doesn’t even happen without the cooperation of an older matriarch figure like older mother or grandmother. It’s cyclical.

If you look at misogynistic societies, women themselves go on to believe very harmful ideologies that put themselves and female children at harm and you might ask why? Because of the same engineering that’s used to get men to think this way is also inflicted on women from misogynistic societies as well. No one is safe.

Of course it’s hard to free yourself from these ideologies when u grow up in such a society. But if they commit atrocities or encourage to violence then it’s too late for them and we need to deal with them asap. They are criminals and a burden for the country. However harsh it may sound at the end of the day this is no justification. One day Allah will hold these people accountable.

 

[lovelypeaches]

Don’t you have Jaarso admixture, technically Oromos

nope just have a couple family members that married them and they are somalis and i would never claim to be oromo and i dont even like them in general

 

[Rayaale]

nope just have a couple family members that married them and they are somalis and i would never claim to be oromo and i dont even like them in general

Jaarso are full blown Oromos as of now, they only claim Somali when it suits them,two faced people

 

[Crook]

Men that blame women for issues they created just don’t want to take accountability and it makes you less of a man. This is why Somalia is the way it is. Why are you holding women to a higher standard and expecting them to defy rules men created in a patriarchal society if the men can’t even abandon qabyaalad themselves?

They’re not maniacs, they’re just being obedient and submissive to dumb men.

The reason why I didn’t talk about men is because it wasnt about men in the beginning. @Unicorn and @Taintedlove dont want to acknowledge that women also partake in clan wars. I don’t hold women to higher standard i just told them they are wrong that’s it. If we talked about the men i could write a whole bible about them. They are the elites and leaders but they can’t build a fcking country in 30+ years?? I will always point my fingers at the men first. I will hold them accountable. But it seems u will never hold the women accountable even though they have blood on their hands too.

 

[AbrahamFreedom]

What to believe? Somalis are by default massive, attention seeking liars but when I went to Somalia twice, there were warnings of local youth who would rape women after dark. Maybe both can be true at the same time.