Anicent somli carving and calendar tablet

[Midas]

I dont know if anybody has see this on Twitter. But I find it absolutely fascinating. This tablet obviously reminds me of some sort of astrolabe and the camel carving is even more surprising since It seems to evidence of some sort of figurative tradition existing in somalia either right before the islamic period or in the early islamic period.

Part of why I find it so fascinating is that these kinds of items wouldn't appear in a vacuum it obviously speaks to a certain level of urbanism and craftsmanship/technical knowledge people had at this time.



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"> Tablet of a lunar calendar dated 7-9th century &amp; camel engraved stone depiction found in Harla village. <a href="https://t.co/52ojpIDZdG">pic.twitter.com/52ojpIDZdG</a></p>&mdash; 𝔍𝔢𝔦𝔩𝔞𝔫 𝔄𝔡𝔞𝔪 (@HararNation) <a href="">November 18, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[GaradMusa]

I dont know if anybody has see this on Twitter. But I find it absolutely fascinating. This tablet obviously reminds me of some sort of astrolabe and the camel carving is even more surprising since It seems to evidence of some sort of figurative tradition existing in somalia either right before the islamic period or in the early islamic period.

Part of why I find it so fascinating is that these kinds of items wouldn't appear in a vacuum it obviously speaks to a certain level of urbanism and craftsmanship/technical knowledge people had at this time.



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"> Tablet of a lunar calendar dated 7-9th century &amp; camel engraved stone depiction found in Harla village. <a href="https://t.co/52ojpIDZdG">pic.twitter.com/52ojpIDZdG</a></p>&mdash; 𝔍𝔢𝔦𝔩𝔞𝔫 𝔄𝔡𝔞𝔪 (@HararNation) <a href="">November 18, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That Twitter handle, @HararNation, self-identifies as a Harari. It does not disvalue what they write initially, but they also retweeted that Somalis lived outside the city walls of Harar:

https://x.com/abunamatska/status/1892692715747352820

In the Politics Section on Somalispot, the linking of Twitter handles that spread Fake News, Qabilist, and Balkanization rhetoric is widespread. We should be careful not to spread Internet Illiteracy to the History and Cultural Section, especially when they may have a certain POV.

It is best practice to link to the source material whenever possible. This particular photo seems to only link back to Ariadne Van Zandbergen and the "Africa Image Library", of which they they have chosen to slap their organization name on to it. After a bit of digging, I found this:

6.3.2. Harela Time Conception: Evidences from the Calendar

Needless to say that, philosophy of time and use of calendar is the major manifestation to measure the level of civilization that one society had. It shows us that a society that used calendar had been well acquainted with astronomy, lunar movement, rotation of seasons or also the flow of rivers. This helps society to adjust every activity on yearly seasonal bases. As mentioned by our informants, the Harela society had a calendar based on lunar movement. The people of Harela were Muslims who used their calendar based on the lunar movement which was divided into twelve months as referred by one of the informants. As we can see from picture-3 the codices and the archaeological manifestations of the calendar were circular with an intricate system of sub-division that refers the year and monthly based compartmentalization of time.

Moreover, Patassini and Kebebaw (2004) have tried to disclose the Harela calendar this way:

Coins written in Arabic and Chinese alphabet, pieces of glasses, ornaments, tools for knitting and pottery fragments have been found in the settlement by peasants together with a stony moon calendar with two geographical coordinates (sinus geometry?). The calendar, nearly 10 cms long, 5 large and 1 tick, remains into two pieces, but still readable and in good condition. The tablet is maybe broken, but it would have been designed in two pieces originally, one orthogonal to the other to ease observing the seasonal moon movement in the sky from a given landmark. This latter might have been a ceremonial place with great symbolic worth (p.1) [emphasis added].

However, detail multi-disciplinary research has to be made to look at their time division (for instance, clocks, days, months and years) with their rationale of naming, meanings and symbolic ascription. Similarly, the cultural, religious and astronomical aspects of their calendar and what makes it different has to be studied by other researchers.

Page: 117

This passage originates from "Mapping Historical Traces: Methogensis, Identity and the Representation of the Harela: A Historical and Anthropological Inquiry" by Ayantu Mohammed from Wollo University in Ethiopia. In this section of their publication, a strikingly similar calendar is also show:

Although published in 2016, the image caption states that it is from an observation/field research in 2008. I am usure if this is the same tablet as the one photographed by Ariadne Van Zandbergen, but the similarities are remarkable. A possible 2008 observation/field research publication has not been located as of this moment.

In regards to the origins of the Harla, the author covers various theories for them. These include: (1) Foreign Semites from Arabia, (2) Braukamper's theory that they were a civilization "related it to the Cushitic group of the Oromo people" (I assume Ayantu Mohammed was referring to the Hararis since they seem to oddly and severely misinterpret that key aspect of Braukamper's theory, for whatever reason that may be), or (3) that they were Somalis. Although they highlight both the linguistic and genealogy ties to ethnic Somalis, they also wrote this:

However, attempts to relate the Harela to the Somali ethnic group were not palatable as to the argument of FGD participants in the study area. They put their argument, contrary to the above assertion, the absence of the culture of architectural building among the Somali group can easily show that the Harela people might not be from the Somali ethnic group. And they concluded that the Somali did not build the ruins found in Ogaden-Jigiga rather the ruins were built by the people of Harela.

Page: 112

I am unsure who their FGD consisted of, whether the research group confused "Soomaal" (an occupation) with "Somali" (our collective ethnicity), or if these FGD and their informants knew anything about Somali history amongst themselves. All that is really mentioned in their publication is this:

4.1.5. Focus Group Discussion (FGDs)

The FGDs that has been used to conduct this study has come up with clear points on several issues such as the controversies about the origin and identity of the Harela people; issues related to economic, political and historical heyday and how does the people, whose mighty has gone to history, were/ are represented by history and the contemporary neighboring people. Thus, group discussions were valuable in that they help to crosscheck and validate the data provided by the different individuals in the group discussions and the information collected from the informants. In addition, group discussions help the researcher to identify the key informants for the research.

Page: 109

Ultimately they conclude that: "the people who found the civilization of Harela remains a puzzle to archeology and anthropological studies to these days" (Page: 112). Nonetheless, the dubious claims like the "absence of the culture of architectural building among the Somali" have been overwhelmingly debunked by users such as @Shimbiris and @Idilinaa and published Somali scholars as well.

There is, however, one final thing I would like to note about this publication and it appears first in the abstract. It is quite odd how tourism is both emphasized and phrased in regards to this research paper:

The heritage is not in a position of generating income in the form of tourism due to lack of awareness of the contribution of heritage to economic development among concerned institution and community members. Finally, recommendations include awareness creation on how to exploit cultural heritage resources; build the capacity of tour guides; conducting archaeological excavation, and developing facilities and infrastructure for tourists.

Page: 106

Most disturbing of all is this passage: "On the flip side, according to the informants from Culture and Tourism Office of Dire Dawa, the Harela people were not migrants from the Arab countries, rather they are indigenous people of Ethiopian identity" (Page: 110).

It is historically inaccurate to claim that the Harla possessed an "Ethiopian identity", which is an amalgamation of different ethnicities and occurs centuries later. The appropriation of history remains widespread by the Ethiopian Government.

 

[TheLand]

That Twitter handle, @HararNation, self-identifies as a Harari. It does not disvalue what they write initially, but they also retweeted that Somalis lived outside the city walls of Harar:

https://x.com/abunamatska/status/1892692715747352820

In the Politics Section on Somalispot, the linking of Twitter handles that spread Fake News, Qabilist, and Balkanization rhetoric is widespread. We should be careful not to spread Internet Illiteracy to the History and Cultural Section, especially when they may have a certain POV.

It is best practice to link to the source material whenever possible. This particular photo seems to only link back to Ariadne Van Zandbergen and the "Africa Image Library", of which they they have chosen to slap their organization name on to it. After a bit of digging, I found this:


This passage originates from "Mapping Historical Traces: Methogensis, Identity and the Representation of the Harela: A Historical and Anthropological Inquiry" by Ayantu Mohammed from Wollo University in Ethiopia. In this section of their publication, a strikingly similar calendar is also show:

View attachment 356976

Although published in 2016, the image caption states that it is from an observation/field research in 2008. I am usure if this is the same tablet as the one photographed by Ariadne Van Zandbergen, but the similarities are remarkable. A possible 2008 observation/field research publication has not been located as of this moment.

In regards to the origins of the Harla, the author covers various theories for them. These include: (1) Foreign Semites from Arabia, (2) Braukamper's theory that they were a civilization "related it to the Cushitic group of the Oromo people" (I assume Ayantu Mohammed was referring to the Hararis since they seem to oddly and severely misinterpret that key aspect of Braukamper's theory, for whatever reason that may be), or (3) that they were Somalis. Although they highlight both the linguistic and genealogy ties to ethnic Somalis, they also wrote this:



I am unsure who their FGD consisted of, whether the research group confused "Soomaal" (an occupation) with "Somali" (our collective ethnicity), or if these FGD and their informants knew anything about Somali history amongst themselves. All that is really mentioned in their publication is this:



Ultimately they conclude that: "the people who found the civilization of Harela remains a puzzle to archeology and anthropological studies to these days" (Page: 112). Nonetheless, the dubious claims like the "absence of the culture of architectural building among the Somali" have been overwhelmingly debunked by users such as @Shimbiris and @Idilinaa and published Somali scholars as well.

There is, however, one final thing I would like to note about this publication and it appears first in the abstract. It is quite odd how tourism is both emphasized and phrased in regards to this research paper:



Most disturbing of all is this passage: "On the flip side, according to the informants from Culture and Tourism Office of Dire Dawa, the Harela people were not migrants from the Arab countries, rather they are indigenous people of Ethiopian identity" (Page: 110).

It is historically inaccurate to claim that the Harla possessed an "Ethiopian identity", which is an amalgamation of different ethnicities and occurs centuries later. The appropriation of history remains widespread by the Ethiopian Government.

The chipping on the piece is in the same location and looks the same. I have no doubt it’s the same artifact.

 

[Midas]

That Twitter handle, @HararNation, self-identifies as a Harari. It does not disvalue what they write initially, but they also retweeted that Somalis lived outside the city walls of Harar:

https://x.com/abunamatska/status/1892692715747352820

In the Politics Section on Somalispot, the linking of Twitter handles that spread Fake News, Qabilist, and Balkanization rhetoric is widespread. We should be careful not to spread Internet Illiteracy to the History and Cultural Section, especially when they may have a certain POV.

It is best practice to link to the source material whenever possible. This particular photo seems to only link back to Ariadne Van Zandbergen and the "Africa Image Library", of which they they have chosen to slap their organization name on to it. After a bit of digging, I found this:


This passage originates from "Mapping Historical Traces: Methogensis, Identity and the Representation of the Harela: A Historical and Anthropological Inquiry" by Ayantu Mohammed from Wollo University in Ethiopia. In this section of their publication, a strikingly similar calendar is also show:

View attachment 356976

Although published in 2016, the image caption states that it is from an observation/field research in 2008. I am usure if this is the same tablet as the one photographed by Ariadne Van Zandbergen, but the similarities are remarkable. A possible 2008 observation/field research publication has not been located as of this moment.

In regards to the origins of the Harla, the author covers various theories for them. These include: (1) Foreign Semites from Arabia, (2) Braukamper's theory that they were a civilization "related it to the Cushitic group of the Oromo people" (I assume Ayantu Mohammed was referring to the Hararis since they seem to oddly and severely misinterpret that key aspect of Braukamper's theory, for whatever reason that may be), or (3) that they were Somalis. Although they highlight both the linguistic and genealogy ties to ethnic Somalis, they also wrote this:



I am unsure who their FGD consisted of, whether the research group confused "Soomaal" (an occupation) with "Somali" (our collective ethnicity), or if these FGD and their informants knew anything about Somali history amongst themselves. All that is really mentioned in their publication is this:



Ultimately they conclude that: "the people who found the civilization of Harela remains a puzzle to archeology and anthropological studies to these days" (Page: 112). Nonetheless, the dubious claims like the "absence of the culture of architectural building among the Somali" have been overwhelmingly debunked by users such as @Shimbiris and @Idilinaa and published Somali scholars as well.

There is, however, one final thing I would like to note about this publication and it appears first in the abstract. It is quite odd how tourism is both emphasized and phrased in regards to this research paper:



Most disturbing of all is this passage: "On the flip side, according to the informants from Culture and Tourism Office of Dire Dawa, the Harela people were not migrants from the Arab countries, rather they are indigenous people of Ethiopian identity" (Page: 110).

It is historically inaccurate to claim that the Harla possessed an "Ethiopian identity", which is an amalgamation of different ethnicities and occurs centuries later. The appropriation of history remains widespread by the Ethiopian Government.

Yeah that account is crazy but this a legit pic they took from somewhere. It's funny how "unpaltable" they find it. Just consider that all the trade between the horn of africa and the rest of the world passed through somali ports with the exception of massawa.

There is also the fact that Somalis have an extremely deep and complicated knowledge of astronomy/astrology with multiple books on this topic publsihed by a dude called ibrahim cali . He even found out that there was not a single non somali word in this astronomy terminology.

(Its also apparently closely guarded knowledge with the elders who have this knowledge requiring payment for every lesson they give you. He was lucky and the oday who taught hom only charged him $36 dollars for every "good" (lunar station) he taught him

 

[Grey Alien]

Yeah that account is crazy but this a legit pic they took from somewhere. It's funny how "unpaltable" they find it. Just consider that all the trade between the horn of africa and the rest of the world passed through somali ports with the exception of massawa.

There is also the fact that Somalis have an extremely deep and complicated knowledge of astronomy/astrology with multiple books on this topic publsihed by a dude called ibrahim cali . He even found out that there was not a single non somali word in this astronomy terminology.

(Its also apparently closely guarded knowledge with the elders who have this knowledge requiring payment for every lesson they give you. He was lucky and the oday who taught hom only charged him $36 dollars for every "good" (lunar station) he taught him

post the link of books if i may ask

 

[Idilinaa]

That Twitter handle, @HararNation, self-identifies as a Harari. It does not disvalue what they write initially, but they also retweeted that Somalis lived outside the city walls of Harar:

https://x.com/abunamatska/status/1892692715747352820

Sorry i didn't get a notif you @ me. Tumur is how Hararis pronounced Tumaal(Blacksmiths) since a lot of Somalis inside the city were artisans and blacksmiths , so they re-used how we refer to eachother by. So it wasn't reference to people outside the city walls.


You are correct that the Twitter user self-identifies as 'Harari.' However, the misleading aspect here is that those referred to as 'Harari' today are, in reality, of Gurage-Oromo origin. Historically, the Harari language itself is an extension of East Gurage. The people who now claim sole ownership of the city's identity actually moved into Harar later, after it had already been established as a major commercial hub by Somalis.

Unlike Somalis who have a broader ethnic and clan-based identity these individuals identify exclusively with the city name because they lack a wider kinship network beyond Harar.


There is a growing tendency in modern discourse, particularly on social media, to reshape history through identity politics rather than historical facts. Many of these individuals do not engage with actual history but instead focus on constructing narratives that serve contemporary identity claims.

Much of this stems from resentment and an identity crisis. The Somali presence in the region has historically been dominant, with a well-defined ethnic and clan-based identity shaped by geography and a long-established social structure. This dominance creates discomfort for groups that lack a similar unifying identity.

Ironically, this resentment is often misplaced. Historically, Somalis were Harari’s greatest allies, sharing both living space and a deep connection through trade and Islam. Our relationship was one of mutual benefit, not exclusion.

When we turn to real historical accounts, numerous explorers in the early 19th century documented that Somalis made up the majority of Harar’s population. Many even stated outright that the people of Harar were Somalis.

For example, Richard Burton, who visited Harar in the mid-1800s, recorded that two-thirds of the city's population was Somali. He described both a permanent Somali population and a seasonal floating population that moved in and out of the city at different times of the year.

The city was a major center for Somalis with thousands of Somalis coming to settle there from to time to study.

Infact it's the very reason he called the city the ''Alma Mater of Somali-land"

Somali religious scholar like Shaykh Ali Suufi even built large Madrassas in Harar.

https://x.com/SomaliArchivez/status/1543857440575426560?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1543857440575426560%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=

One of the influential scholars who formed the impetus of Hargeisa as city Sheikh Madhar studied in Harar , his education was funded by his father who was rich Merchant in Berbera.

Burton also visited the homes of prominent Somali figures within the city, such as Sheikh Jami-Al-Bartirri, a scholar from the Bartire clan, who owned large house in the city center with a courtyard and an extensive library.

His clan and kin cultivated coffee in the region, which they traded as a major economic commodity through Harar.

Additionally, Burton met Geri Somali citizens who maintained agricultural villages near the city, as well as a Hawiye Somali citizen of Harar in Zayla. The same Somali clans that populated the countryside also formed the urban population of Harar itself.

Throughout his writings, Burton consistently distinguishes between settled Somalis and Bedouin Somalis, including the Somali population of Zayla alongside those of Harar.

He also highlights the kindness of the Somalis in Harar, further cementing their historical presence and role in the city. He later frames the Reer Magaal's hospitality as timidness and subservience , when in actuality they treat guests with kindness to facilitate trade.

Moreover, Harar's economy was deeply intertwined with Somali commercial networks. The city's trade was dominated by Somalis, particularly through the Berbera trade route, which connected Harar to the wider Somali merchant networks.

What often happens today is that certain groups attempt to rewrite history by selectively categorizing Somali communities. Because Somalis have wide dispersal that spread out across both rural-urban country and often the towns and cities form out of rural production.
They exploit the rural-urban dynamics to frame Somali as only living outside the cities despite overwhelming evidence that Somalis were integral to Harar’s social, economic, and political structure.

It's a common tactic. By distorting this reality, revisionists attempt to erase Somali contributions while selectively assigning urban history to other groups. This revisionist approach does not stand up to historical scrutiny when examining primary sources and accounts from the period.

The historical record speaks for itself: Somalis were not just present in Harar, they were central to its identity, commerce, and governance.

I could go into it more showing the Islamic character of the city is derived from Somali culture, like the Awliyo saint cult among other things.

 

[Idilinaa]

Sorry i didn't get a notif you @ me. Tumur is how Hararis pronounced Tumaal(Blacksmiths) since a lot of Somalis inside the city were artisans and blacksmiths , so they re-used how we refer to eachother by. So it wasn't reference to people outside the city walls.

A Somali artisan, Harar 1883.

 

[Idilinaa]

It is best practice to link to the source material whenever possible. This particular photo seems to only link back to Ariadne Van Zandbergen and the "Africa Image Library", of which they they have chosen to slap their organization name on to it. After a bit of digging, I found this:


This passage originates from "Mapping Historical Traces: Methogensis, Identity and the Representation of the Harela: A Historical and Anthropological Inquiry" by Ayantu Mohammed from Wollo University in Ethiopia. In this section of their publication, a strikingly similar calendar is also show:

View attachment 356976

Although published in 2016, the image caption states that it is from an observation/field research in 2008. I am usure if this is the same tablet as the one photographed by Ariadne Van Zandbergen, but the similarities are remarkable. A possible 2008 observation/field research publication has not been located as of this moment.

In regards to the origins of the Harla, the author covers various theories for them. These include: (1) Foreign Semites from Arabia, (2) Braukamper's theory that they were a civilization "related it to the Cushitic group of the Oromo people" (I assume Ayantu Mohammed was referring to the Hararis since they seem to oddly and severely misinterpret that key aspect of Braukamper's theory, for whatever reason that may be), or (3) that they were Somalis. Although they highlight both the linguistic and genealogy ties to ethnic Somalis, they also wrote this:



I am unsure who their FGD consisted of, whether the research group confused "Soomaal" (an occupation) with "Somali" (our collective ethnicity), or if these FGD and their informants knew anything about Somali history amongst themselves. All that is really mentioned in their publication is this:



Ultimately they conclude that: "the people who found the civilization of Harela remains a puzzle to archeology and anthropological studies to these days" (Page: 112). Nonetheless, the dubious claims like the "absence of the culture of architectural building among the Somali" have been overwhelmingly debunked by users such as @Shimbiris and @Idilinaa and published Somali scholars as well.

There is, however, one final thing I would like to note about this publication and it appears first in the abstract. It is quite odd how tourism is both emphasized and phrased in regards to this research paper:



Most disturbing of all is this passage: "On the flip side, according to the informants from Culture and Tourism Office of Dire Dawa, the Harela people were not migrants from the Arab countries, rather they are indigenous people of Ethiopian identity" (Page: 110).

It is historically inaccurate to claim that the Harla possessed an "Ethiopian identity", which is an amalgamation of different ethnicities and occurs centuries later. The appropriation of history remains widespread by the Ethiopian Government.

The claim that Somali people lacked a culture of architectural building is outright false, as it ignores extensive evidence of Somali urban development across the region.

The ruins commonly attributed to the so-called 'Harla civilization' extend deep into Northern Somalia and other Somali-inhabited territories, including the Ogaden. These structures share identical architectural styles and construction techniques, which suggests that they were not built by some distinct, extinct group but rather by the same communities that have continuously inhabited these areas for centuries.

The burial sites found within these ruins further west also match the traditional rectangular Somali grave style, further reinforcing their connection to the Somali people.

Additionally, studies have observed that roof-making and construction techniques used in these ancient sites persist to this day in Ogaden, demonstrating a clear continuity of Somali architectural practices rather than an isolated historical phenomenon.

The idea of a separate 'Harla civilization' is an Oromo-invented mythology, later appropriated into local traditions. The Oromo expansions into the Harla Kombe region situated between the Awash and Upper Shabelle rivers resulted in them applying the 'Harla' label to various pre-existing sites, regardless of whether they had any historical or cultural ties to them. Over time, this myth blended with Taalo Tiriyaad traditions, which attribute ruins to pre-Islamic giants, further distorting historical reality.


In truth, the Harla were simply an agro-pastoral Somali clan, one among many, documented to have lived near the Awash River Basin and in the areas between Dire Dawa and Harar. Some remnants of these communities still persist today, but they have been subjected to historical mythologization and modern identity politics. Rather than being an extinct civilization, they were part of the broader Somali historical landscape.


Urban expansion in Somali history has always been either a state-driven enterprise or an organic merchant-led endeavor, with clear textual and documentary evidence outlining the process. The Futuh Al-Habasha Chronicle, for example, meticulously details the development of Somali urban centers, leaving no room for the notion that such efforts were the work of some mysterious 'Harla' group.

The push to appropriate Somali history under the label of 'Harla' is a modern political project, rather than a conclusion based on genuine historical evidence. The Ethiopian government's narrative, which tries to claim the Harla as 'indigenous to Ethiopia' with a supposed 'Ethiopian identity' centuries before such an identity even existed, is just another example of state-sponsored historical revisionism.


Ultimately, the 'Harla civilization' is a myth, built on misinterpretations, identity politics, and deliberate distortions of Somali history.

 

[Idilinaa]

Back to the topic of @Midas post, we can't really be surprised by this finding of a calendar carving. Also i agree with you the other carving of a camel just shows how intrinsic the camel was to the region's culture, it became symbolic. We can all understand what implications it carries.

Somalis has had a deep fascination and interest in austronomy and weather and developed a large literary cultural body, calendars and practice in tracking it.

It is due to our geographical climate being monsoon driven, it required an expertise in tracking the seasons , stars/planets and weather. It was crucial for sustainable crop farming and livestock herding.

That camel carving could very well be connected to Somali astrological lore of the sky camel

The publications in a Somali online newspaper was saved to the way backmachine archive , its from the early t2000s that that go through it the traditions and literature.

They include, poetry, songs, references to historical qoutes
Link:

Somaliland Times - culture

post the link of books if i may ask

The obvious one would be the publications by Musa Galaal on the topic.

Muusa H. I. Galaal: The terminology and practice of Somali weather lore, astronomy, and astrology. [vi], 77 pp. Mogadishu: the author, 1968. (Distributors: New Africa Booksellers, Mogadishu. 20s.) | Bulletin of SOAS | Cambridge Core

Muusa H. I. Galaal: The terminology and practice of Somali weather lore, astronomy, and astrology. [vi], 77 pp. Mogadishu: the author, 1968. (Distributors: New Africa Booksellers, Mogadishu. 20s.) - Volume 32 Issue 1

www.cambridge.org

https://arcadia.sba.uniroma3.it/bitstream/2307/737/1/Stars_%20seasons%20and%20weather%20in%20somali%20pastoral%20traditions.pdf

 

[PotentialGaraad]

Over time, this myth blended with Taalo Tiriyaad traditions, which attribute ruins to pre-Islamic giants, further distorting historical reality.

Are the Taalo Tiriyaad a fugazzi? Just curious.

 

[Idilinaa]

Are the Taalo Tiriyaad a fugazzi? Just curious.

''Taalo Tiriyaad'' loosely translates into ''Monuments of Tiri". Tiri is supposed to be name of a pre-islamic clan according to local traditions.

The stone mounds are real, archeologically speaking they are either burials or pillar tombs.

The mythic aspect is the cursed mysterious giants part. It's common trope that even show up in the south in the Madanle traditions

Spoke a bit about here

The elders don't live past 100 years, so what they say is less reliable when it comes to events dealing with 500 years or so unless its backed by historical texts, because what's been passed by the word of mouth can be a subject to change and adoption . Especially when a new group moves or some disturbance happens.

The Harla attribution has been borrowed back into Somali from Oromos who came into the area and it blended in with Taallo Tiriyaad '' Monuments of Tirii '' Stories.

If you aren't familiar with the Monuments of Tiiri tradition this article is an introduction. https://www-bbc-com.translate.goog/...6kpo?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US

It features the same trope that they were mysterious giants who were cursed and built stone monuments:

And when they excavated those sites in Somaliland they just found recent Somali remains in them : and cautioned others not to lightly accept traditions which purport to deal with events of 500 or more years ago.

And even in NFD and Southern Somalia they tell the same story about a giants race of people being builders of stone works , monuments and wells but calls them Madanle: instead of Tiiri

This is the oral story they tell about Harla:

How can we tell it's been borrowed? Because the ''Taalo Tiiriyaad'' story is mentioned in all of Northern Somalia, and Madanle in the south and in those parts no mentions are given to Harla. They don't even connect them to it, but it features the same trope about giants being credited to build stuff etc.


It's specific to the Harar uplands where Oromo's expanded into . It has nothing to do with Harla sultanate , scholars bringing Islam or even Harla people, it just mythology and legends about pagan tribes being cursed and are giants before the founding of the Muslim tribes.

In the historical documents that relate to Harla, no mentions are given to a Harla sultanate , their regions are mentioned to be on the upper edge of the Harar highlands and Awash valley.

And Hobaad in Futuh which is called Ganda Harla by Oromos , is not mentioned to be even ruled by them or them living there. And also Amda Sayeon chronicles mentioned a number of different clan identities such Warjax , Gabal pastoralists cheiftans ec alongside the occupational terms like Temur & Semur not just Harla. Which shows you there is no real specific prominence given to them over other tribes, they are just one among many.

But yeah attribution to ruins of stone buildings to a singular group is obviously unfounded.

It requires considerable amount of wealth, direction , control of resources, transportation, time investment, a large labor pool of workers, expertise, maintenance and it's projects undertaken by wealthy individuals or ruling elites who act's as patrons. It's not something an isolated clan/group can be responsible for or peasants

 

[Idilinaa]

I plan on making my own taalo that explains my achievements in detail written in Beja-Af Tunni creole in the cismaaniya script to confuse future archaeologists. In all seriousness are you aware of a taalo called "Harti Yimid" within the Laascanood vicinity and anything about it?

I could tell when you first asked me about it, that it wasn't a genuine inquiry and you are just another demented troll. That vomits deliberate nonsense.

It's seems to be a common theme on this site. I don't think i have ever had normal engagement with someone on this forum other than a few people , that are as interested about learning and discovery as i am in the genuine earnest sense.

 

[PotentialGaraad]

I could tell when you first asked me about it, that it wasn't a genuine inquiry and you are just another demented troll. That vomits deliberate nonsense.

It's seems to be a common theme on this site. I don't think i have ever had normal engagement with someone on this forum other than a few people , that are as interested about learning and discovery as i am in the genuine earnest sense.

Apologies for the joke. It was not my intent to troll but I can understand why you took it as such. I have since deleted it as it was not beneficial.

I do agree that attributing the taalo to one group is not possible due to their range Something that I wonder is whether there was a distinction between the ones designated to burial sites or ones that were "possible landmarks". Harti Yimid is one that I have heard of that has undeciphered markings on it which may explain them more in detail.

I again apologise for my earlier posts. Thank you for the call out.

 

[Idilinaa]

Apologies for the joke. It was not my intent to troll but I can understand why you took it as such. I have since deleted it as it was not beneficial.

I do agree that attributing the taalo to one group is not possible due to their range Something that I wonder is whether there was a distinction between the ones designated to burial sites or ones that were "possible landmarks". Harti Yimid is one that I have heard of that has undeciphered markings on it which may explain them more in detail.

I again apologise for my earlier posts. Thank you for the call out.

You should feign interest somewhere else, cause i am not entertaining it.

I am just imagining how much of loser you must be to have this much time to make an account for the sole purpose of nonsense peddling and derailing subject matter threads.

You have literally nothing better to do with your time and your life has been reduced to this.

 

[PotentialGaraad]

You should feign interest somewhere else, cause i am not entertaining it.

I am just imagining how much of loser you must be to have this much time to make an account for the sole purpose of nonsense peddling and derailing subject matter threads.

You have literally nothing better to do with your time and your life has been reduced to this.

I will try to reiterate my point one last time. Regardless of the outcome, I will end it here with no hard feelings.

I just wanted to know if there was any further reading on specific taalo or stone structures with inscriptions on them as seen in a report by the Somali Ministry of Information and National Guidance in 1974 and in the 22nd volume of the Proceedings Of The Royal Geographical Society Of London. But this is now clogging up this thread. I will delete this soon and make a new thread about this specific topic. May Allah bless us all.

 

[Ashraf]

Sorry i didn't get a notif you @ me. Tumur is how Hararis pronounced Tumaal(Blacksmiths) since a lot of Somalis inside the city were artisans and blacksmiths , so they re-used how we refer to eachother by. So it wasn't reference to people outside the city walls.


You are correct that the Twitter user self-identifies as 'Harari.' However, the misleading aspect here is that those referred to as 'Harari' today are, in reality, of Gurage-Oromo origin. Historically, the Harari language itself is an extension of East Gurage. The people who now claim sole ownership of the city's identity actually moved into Harar later, after it had already been established as a major commercial hub by Somalis.
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Unlike Somalis who have a broader ethnic and clan-based identity these individuals identify exclusively with the city name because they lack a wider kinship network beyond Harar.


There is a growing tendency in modern discourse, particularly on social media, to reshape history through identity politics rather than historical facts. Many of these individuals do not engage with actual history but instead focus on constructing narratives that serve contemporary identity claims.

Much of this stems from resentment and an identity crisis. The Somali presence in the region has historically been dominant, with a well-defined ethnic and clan-based identity shaped by geography and a long-established social structure. This dominance creates discomfort for groups that lack a similar unifying identity.

Ironically, this resentment is often misplaced. Historically, Somalis were Harari’s greatest allies, sharing both living space and a deep connection through trade and Islam. Our relationship was one of mutual benefit, not exclusion.

When we turn to real historical accounts, numerous explorers in the early 19th century documented that Somalis made up the majority of Harar’s population. Many even stated outright that the people of Harar were Somalis.
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For example, Richard Burton, who visited Harar in the mid-1800s, recorded that two-thirds of the city's population was Somali. He described both a permanent Somali population and a seasonal floating population that moved in and out of the city at different times of the year.

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The city was a major center for Somalis with thousands of Somalis coming to settle there from to time to study.
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Infact it's the very reason he called the city the ''Alma Mater of Somali-land"

Somali religious scholar like Shaykh Ali Suufi even built large Madrassas in Harar.

https://x.com/SomaliArchivez/status/1543857440575426560?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1543857440575426560%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=

One of the influential scholars who formed the impetus of Hargeisa as city Sheikh Madhar studied in Harar , his education was funded by his father who was rich Merchant in Berbera.

Burton also visited the homes of prominent Somali figures within the city, such as Sheikh Jami-Al-Bartirri, a scholar from the Bartire clan, who owned large house in the city center with a courtyard and an extensive library.

His clan and kin cultivated coffee in the region, which they traded as a major economic commodity through Harar.

Additionally, Burton met Geri Somali citizens who maintained agricultural villages near the city, as well as a Hawiye Somali citizen of Harar in Zayla. The same Somali clans that populated the countryside also formed the urban population of Harar itself.
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Throughout his writings, Burton consistently distinguishes between settled Somalis and Bedouin Somalis, including the Somali population of Zayla alongside those of Harar.
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He also highlights the kindness of the Somalis in Harar, further cementing their historical presence and role in the city. He later frames the Reer Magaal's hospitality as timidness and subservience , when in actuality they treat guests with kindness to facilitate trade.

Moreover, Harar's economy was deeply intertwined with Somali commercial networks. The city's trade was dominated by Somalis, particularly through the Berbera trade route, which connected Harar to the wider Somali merchant networks.

What often happens today is that certain groups attempt to rewrite history by selectively categorizing Somali communities. Because Somalis have wide dispersal that spread out across both rural-urban country and often the towns and cities form out of rural production.
They exploit the rural-urban dynamics to frame Somali as only living outside the cities despite overwhelming evidence that Somalis were integral to Harar’s social, economic, and political structure.

It's a common tactic. By distorting this reality, revisionists attempt to erase Somali contributions while selectively assigning urban history to other groups. This revisionist approach does not stand up to historical scrutiny when examining primary sources and accounts from the period.

The historical record speaks for itself: Somalis were not just present in Harar, they were central to its identity, commerce, and governance.

I could go into it more showing the Islamic character of the city is derived from Somali culture, like the Awliyo saint cult among other things.

How TF do you know all this stuff. Do you have a degree? Every single post you make is a gem citing historical sources etc etc make a YouTube account you can make good money

 

[Idilinaa]

How TF do you know all this stuff. Do you have a degree? Every single post you make is a gem citing historical sources etc etc make a YouTube account you can make good money

If i had a degree related to this, i wouldn't be posting stuff here loool. I just explore information about diverse topics and share it.

I have something more ambitious in mind than youtube. Also i am more interested in economic development so i research things from that angle.

 

[Ashraf]

If i had a degree related to this, i wouldn't be posting it here loool. I just explore information about diverse topics and share it.

I have something more ambitious in mind than youtube. Also i am more interested in economic development so i research things from that angle.

May I ask how old you are and what you plan on studying, I won’t impose asking you for your ambitions I think it’s good to keep them secret

 

[Idilinaa]

May I ask how old you are and what you plan on studying, I won’t impose asking you for your ambitions I think it’s good to keep them secret

It's not that I'm keeping it a secret or intentionally hiding it. I just prefer not to discuss my ambitions or plans publicly before they’ve taken shape.

In general, I also tend to keep discussions focused on ideas rather than personal details. I believe that who I am is less relevant in a discussion compared to the arguments and perspectives being shared.