Modern day phenomenon.
Britain & Italy saved us from being colonized by Ethiopia.
- Thread starter Prince of Lasanod
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Modern day phenomenon.
@Prince of Lasanod
Contrary to popular opinion, colonization of Ethiopia was not the intention of the Italians. It may have been the result if they won the battle, but initially, the war they fought was to settle a treaty dispute they had with Emperor Menelik II. On April 1889, Menelik signed the Treaty of Wuchali with the Italians. In return for financial assistance and modern weaponry, Italy was given the northern provinces of Eritrea and Tigray. This was a cunning political move by Menelik, because Tigray was the native province of his chief rival Mengesha Yohannes, the previous emperor's son. By placing Tigray under Italian control, Menelik deprived Yohannes of valuable local support.
There was however, one clause of the treaty which both sides had differing interpretations. According to the Italian version, Article 17 states that the Ethiopian emperor is obligated to go through Italian channels for diplomatic representation. In other words, the Emperor must ask for permission and aid when speaking to foreign states. This clause would in practice make Ethiopia a protectorate of the Italian state. This was a common tactic used by European powers when signing treaties with local rulers. Subtle interpretations would state that the local rulers had effectively submitted to European control, and the if the local rulers disputed this (which they often did), the Europeans would justify military action by claiming treaty violation.
The Amharic version on the other hand, stated that the Emperor was not obligated to rely upon Italian diplomacy. He could if he wished to, but it was by no means mandatory. The Italians claimed that the Emperor signed the treaty with the awareness of this obligation but later changed it on his own accord. Historians continue to debate today whether it was a case of simple misinterpretation or that one side deliberately changed their versions after the signing. Neither the Italian colonizers or the machiavellian Menelik were saints, so both sides are valid culprits. But we will probably never know.
But in any case, both sides demanded the other correct the interpretation, but neither would budge, even after an attempt to buy off Menelik. Italy came to the decision that a military solution was the most efficient way to teach the 'barbarians' a lesson.
Initially, the Italians were successful in crushing an Ethiopian-supported insurgency in Eritrea (December 1894) and defeating Mengesha Yohannes (the previous Emperor's son) at Coatit (January 1895). The Ethiopians later defeated the Italians at Amba Alagi (December 1895) and Mek'ele (January 1896).
This forced the Italians into a retreat through the mountainous area of Adwa, where the Italians were dangerously short on manpower. The Italian commander Oreste Baratieri wanted to focus on defense, because unlike his army which relied upon supply lines, the Ethiopian army lived off the land, and would melt away once the local peasants were exhausted.
But to his detriment, the Italian government was impatient and eager for a PR victory. They ordered Baratieri to attack with fewer numbers. The politicians simply could not accept the shameful eventuality of fleeing from an 'inferior' race. One of Baratieri's brigadiers stated:
"Italy would prefer the loss of two or three thousand men to a dishonorable retreat."
In the end, Baratieri reluctantly set a date for an attack. On March 1st, 1896, the 20,000-strong Italian army was to attack an Ethiopian force between 73,000 to 120,000 men.
The combat effectiveness of the Italians has been exaggerated, a few thousand of the 20,000 were most likely support personnel, thereby reducing the actual combat effective strength to about 15,000, divided into four brigades.
Contrary to popular opinion, colonization of Ethiopia was not the intention of the Italians. It may have been the result if they won the battle, but initially, the war they fought was to settle a treaty dispute they had with Emperor Menelik II. On April 1889, Menelik signed the Treaty of Wuchali with the Italians. In return for financial assistance and modern weaponry, Italy was given the northern provinces of Eritrea and Tigray. This was a cunning political move by Menelik, because Tigray was the native province of his chief rival Mengesha Yohannes, the previous emperor's son. By placing Tigray under Italian control, Menelik deprived Yohannes of valuable local support.
There was however, one clause of the treaty which both sides had differing interpretations. According to the Italian version, Article 17 states that the Ethiopian emperor is obligated to go through Italian channels for diplomatic representation. In other words, the Emperor must ask for permission and aid when speaking to foreign states. This clause would in practice make Ethiopia a protectorate of the Italian state. This was a common tactic used by European powers when signing treaties with local rulers. Subtle interpretations would state that the local rulers had effectively submitted to European control, and the if the local rulers disputed this (which they often did), the Europeans would justify military action by claiming treaty violation.
The Amharic version on the other hand, stated that the Emperor was not obligated to rely upon Italian diplomacy. He could if he wished to, but it was by no means mandatory. The Italians claimed that the Emperor signed the treaty with the awareness of this obligation but later changed it on his own accord. Historians continue to debate today whether it was a case of simple misinterpretation or that one side deliberately changed their versions after the signing. Neither the Italian colonizers or the machiavellian Menelik were saints, so both sides are valid culprits. But we will probably never know.
But in any case, both sides demanded the other correct the interpretation, but neither would budge, even after an attempt to buy off Menelik. Italy came to the decision that a military solution was the most efficient way to teach the 'barbarians' a lesson.
Initially, the Italians were successful in crushing an Ethiopian-supported insurgency in Eritrea (December 1894) and defeating Mengesha Yohannes (the previous Emperor's son) at Coatit (January 1895). The Ethiopians later defeated the Italians at Amba Alagi (December 1895) and Mek'ele (January 1896).
This forced the Italians into a retreat through the mountainous area of Adwa, where the Italians were dangerously short on manpower. The Italian commander Oreste Baratieri wanted to focus on defense, because unlike his army which relied upon supply lines, the Ethiopian army lived off the land, and would melt away once the local peasants were exhausted.
But to his detriment, the Italian government was impatient and eager for a PR victory. They ordered Baratieri to attack with fewer numbers. The politicians simply could not accept the shameful eventuality of fleeing from an 'inferior' race. One of Baratieri's brigadiers stated:
"Italy would prefer the loss of two or three thousand men to a dishonorable retreat."
In the end, Baratieri reluctantly set a date for an attack. On March 1st, 1896, the 20,000-strong Italian army was to attack an Ethiopian force between 73,000 to 120,000 men.
The combat effectiveness of the Italians has been exaggerated, a few thousand of the 20,000 were most likely support personnel, thereby reducing the actual combat effective strength to about 15,000, divided into four brigades.
Prince of Lasanod
Eid trim pending
Not sure about the Adal, but in the Dervish wars the British protected tribes were the bulk of the troops used to fight against us.
Young Popeye
Call me pops
Ethiopians were tools for the Europeans. Amharas had no colonial ambitions, they were running around half naked. For example when UK occupied Harar., France told them to leave or war would erupt between the two colonial powers. the reason Menelik occupied Harar was because he was pressured by both France and UK to invade so that the Italians wouldn't take it.
Galaeri
USC | Ururka Bililiqada iyo Kufsiga
People also need to realise the Europeans were having an incredibly difficult time fighting the Somalis. The Italians even had a hard time defeating the MJ sultans after the Dervishes were defeated. They were left red faced and had to implement an arms embargo to level the playing field. The Abyssinians could never match the Europeans in military prowess, how would they be able to colonised Somalia?
Galaeri
USC | Ururka Bililiqada iyo Kufsiga
Can you share your resources please?
Prince of Lasanod
Eid trim pending
Look at the numbers that the Italians had in Somalia. They weren't that much.
Compare that with Ethiopai who would of had numbers exceeding 100,000 with modern guns. It would take the whole of Somalia uniting against them.
Galaeri
USC | Ururka Bililiqada iyo Kufsiga
Historically they have been unable to defeat Somalis without incredible foreign help. Even when they fought the ICU in 06 they returned home with ridiculous casualties. They are truly pathetic.
Also the Europeans had an incredibly difficult time fighting the Somalis who for the most part were not united. Look at the Dervish movement and how much damage they did whilst their fellow Somalis were not completely with them, with some working against them. How can the habesh conquer us if the are much weaker than the Europeans who struggled in Somalia.
MadNomad
As i live and breathe
Maybe if we were colonized by only one country it would have been easier to unite our people.
A lander who wants unification? Welcome to the fold brother
SOMALI GENERAL
VIP
Thats true to a certain extent. However, the main backers of Dervish Somalis were the Germans & Turks in WW1. The problem was the Brits ruled the waves so they utilised their navy to enforce an arms embargo on the Somalis.
SOMALI GENERAL
VIP
Yes you're right, Mussoloni had plans to revive the Roman empire. He wanted to encourage large scale Italian settlements in HOA.
However, his imperialist dreams may not have come to fruition had the axis won WW2, since they were to incomptent to wage their own military campaign in North Africa & the Germans had to bail them out consistently. Italy itself was occupied by the Germans, goes to show that Italy was the weakest of the Axis. Germans would probably have annexed the Italians into their Reich had they won WW2.
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Madara x
Sleep soundly
lol It's a honor that people wanna be like me:siilaanyolaugh:
Long live the Dervish Dream
What nonsense. The Somali climate and arid landscape alone would've finished the abyssinnians. Warrior horseback Nomads who can melt into the desert have never been conquered by any empire let alone cowards who were too scared to light a fire to cook their meat. Have some respect for your ancestors.
Prince of Lasanod
Eid trim pending
The Italians uprooted a Bantu uprising who rebelled against their Biimaal masters, perhaps if they didn't then the Bantus would of had their own republic somewhere between the 2 rivers.
"Nassib Buunto was successful in establishing one of the most powerful confederations in the Goshaland, incorporating Somalis of Bantu origin as well as others. His diplomatic skills intimidated some regional powers, who signed agreements of peace and co-operation recognizing him as the sole authority in the Gosha region. A number of foreign powers also made deals with him and recognized him as the sultan for all the Gosha. By 1892, Nassib Buunto was declared the sole authority over 46 villages of the Gosha on both banks of the Juba River, extending from Yoontoy at the mouth of the river in the south to Mfudu in the north.
In addition to his diplomatic skills, Nassib Buunto was also a charismatic military leader. Colonial reports estimated that between 25,000 and 40,000 militia were under his command. He possessed up to 1,000 guns, while most of his troops were armed with bows and poisonous arrows and spears. He
was victorious over the Werday and the Ogaden clans. Nassib Buunto recruited the bulk of his fighters from the freed slaves who fled from their Italian landlords and Somali abans (protectors). He established a center for them in the Gosha that was later named after him, the Nassib Buunto Center or Nassib Buunto Village."
"Nassib Buunto was successful in establishing one of the most powerful confederations in the Goshaland, incorporating Somalis of Bantu origin as well as others. His diplomatic skills intimidated some regional powers, who signed agreements of peace and co-operation recognizing him as the sole authority in the Gosha region. A number of foreign powers also made deals with him and recognized him as the sultan for all the Gosha. By 1892, Nassib Buunto was declared the sole authority over 46 villages of the Gosha on both banks of the Juba River, extending from Yoontoy at the mouth of the river in the south to Mfudu in the north.
In addition to his diplomatic skills, Nassib Buunto was also a charismatic military leader. Colonial reports estimated that between 25,000 and 40,000 militia were under his command. He possessed up to 1,000 guns, while most of his troops were armed with bows and poisonous arrows and spears. He
was victorious over the Werday and the Ogaden clans. Nassib Buunto recruited the bulk of his fighters from the freed slaves who fled from their Italian landlords and Somali abans (protectors). He established a center for them in the Gosha that was later named after him, the Nassib Buunto Center or Nassib Buunto Village."
Prince of Lasanod
Eid trim pending
What makes you think anybody would want to control the barren and useless regions of North Somalia? I'm talking about the coastal cities and the Shabelle/Jubba.What nonsense. The Somali climate and arid landscape alone would've finished the abyssinnians. Warrior horseback Nomads who can melt into the desert have never been conquered by any empire let alone cowards who were too scared to light a fire to cook their meat. Have some respect for your ancestors.
What makes you think Northern Somalia is barren? Not everywhere is like Sool.
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