Burden of Proof

[Internet Nomad]

You believe or you don't. I can't make you believe, it's Allah that makes you believe or not. And I am sitting out of debate on this thread. Scholars have warned against debating and then also I have some things I need to get done.

Brother advise like this is the reason so many people fall into atheism if you cannot defend your belief that means you do not have strong ground to stand upon. Always question what you believe and how you could defend them. You never wanna be lead astray thats we have brains to critically analyse our thoughts and opinions.

 

[Dualke]

I understand if god exist then he would be the objective morality. What i am saying what reason would YOU convert.

Whose talking about conversion
I was asking how the existence of Allah is different from Yahweh and other variations of omnipotence

 

[Dualke]

You believe or you don't. I can't make you believe, it's Allah that makes you believe or not. And I am sitting out of debate on this thread. Scholars have warned against debating and then also I have some things I need to get done.

All sound beliefs are grounded off some form of reason. If it's based off conjecture or emotion how do you justify that?

 

[Internet Nomad]

Whose talking about conversion
I was asking how the existence of Allah is different from Yahweh and other variations of omnipotence

I am saying if come across a religion which says god doesn't want to guide the non ethnic person. And you were non ethnic you have no reason to convert and so move on with your life. if it ends up to a true religion then it isn't your fault you didn't covert as god didn't guide you.

I think we are misunderstanding each other break your point down into preferably 3 points.

 

[Internet Nomad]

All sound beliefs are grounded off some form of reason. If it's based off conjecture or emotion how do you justify that?

That was a unintelligent response some people cant see the perspective who they are having a convo with just ignore that.

 

[Dualke]

I am saying if come across a religion which says god doesn't want to guide the non ethnic person. And you were non ethnic you have no reason to convert and so move on with your life. if it ends up to a true religion then it isn't your fault you didn't covert as god didn't guide you.

I think we are misunderstanding each other break your point down into preferably 3 points.

Yeah I agree with that.
We were arguing two seperate things. I was arguing about how the existence of Allah is justified compared to similar omnipotent religions. You were arguing about what a religion needs in order for people to follow it

 

[Internet Nomad]

Yeah I agree with that.
We were arguing two seperate things. I was arguing about how the existence of Allah is justified compared to similar omnipotent religions. You were arguing about what a religion needs in order for people to follow it

Is there any criteria that you believe that islam doesn't meet for you to believe?

 

[Dualke]

Is there any criteria that you believe that islam doesn't meet for you to believe?

The only criteria I don't see people bringing up is the validity of Allah's existence.

 

[Garaad diinle]

The only criteria I don't see people bringing up is the validity of Allah's existence.

The world needs a creator and the creator is allah.

 

[Internet Nomad]

A good way to show validity that helps me reaffirm my belief is either predictions which came true or scietifical truths which need further technogical advancement for anyone to know at that time.

however their is a problem with the 2nd as science can one day affirm islam and the next day not as it flawed by our ignorance. Science is just us trying to understand the world and sometimes we get it wrong.

 

[Dualke]

The world needs a creator and the creator is allah.

How do you rationally prove this?

 

[Garaad diinle]

How do you rationally prove this?

The world didn't create itself. Every thing has a creator nothing comes out of the void. Nothingness don't give rise to something. We can see intelligence in the world. The more we learn about biology cosmology etc the more we see the handy work of our creator. The fine tuning of the universe so on and so forth.

 

[Internet Nomad]

How do you rationally prove this?

The kalaam arguement

The world didn't create itself. Every thing has a creator nothing comes out of the void. Nothingness don't give rise to something. We can see intelligence in the world. The more we learn about biology cosmology etc the more we see the handy work of our creator. The fine tuning of the universe so on and so forth.

I think he means why do you say allah and not anyother god.

 

[Garaad diinle]

The kalaam arguement

I think he means why do you say allah and not anyother god.

Well i say allah but i simply mean a creator. If he wanna know why allah in particular then it's a conversation about islam as a whole.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Brother advise like this is the reason so many people fall into atheism if you cannot defend your belief that means you do not have strong ground to stand upon. Always question what you believe and how you could defend them. You never wanna be lead astray thats we have brains to critically analyse our thoughts and opinions.

I can defend my belief but I have stuff to do. I don't have time to argue with every incorrect person on the internet.

 

[Dualke]

I can defend my belief but I have stuff to do. I don't have time to argue with every incorrect person on the internet.

I have made 0 claims. Just asking questions

 

[Internet Nomad]

I can defend my belief but I have stuff to do. I don't have time to argue with every incorrect person on the internet.

Cool but the way you replied looked as if you couldn't.

Dw maybe it was a misunderstanding.

 

[Journey.]

ex-Muslim:

*previously is Muslim*
*starts to doubt Islam*
*leaves Islam*
*proceeds to obsess about Islam and a God he supposedly doesn't believe in 24/7*

As though they were recruited by Shaytaan..

 

[Internet Nomad]

As though they were recruited by Shaytaan..

People have a fitrah we should help as many people out as possible. You saying they are recruited by shaytan only create a hostile environment where shaytan thrives. Have mercy not anger.

 

[Omar del Sur]

I have made 0 claims. Just asking questions

I was in the middle of something. Now I have some down time. Okay.

How do I prove Islam? This is a weird question to me. To me, looking at creation is plenty of proof. But how do I convince a disbeliever? I don't.

This idea that there's this secret formula that we can use to convince kaffirs and make them Muslims... this just isn't something real. Nothing like that exists. It's Allah that guides or doesn't guide a person.

I don't really care about convincing non-Muslims. If I wanted to try to convince them, I'd be talking with non-Muslims. But this platform is mostly Muslim. I don't want to be like Zakir Naik who focuses a bunch on non-Muslims. I want to take Islam as the starting point then go from there, not focus a bunch on trying to convince non-Muslims.

I want to share a hadith.

It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah said to his uncle at the time of his death:
Make a profession of it that there is no god but Allah and I will bear testimony (of your being a Muslim) on the Day of judgment. But he (Abu Talib) refused to do so. Then Allah revealed this verse: " Verily thou canst not guide to the right path whom thou lovest. And it is Allah Who guideth whom He will and He knoweth best who are the guided" (xxviii. 56).

Sahih Muslim 25a - The Book of Faith - كتاب الإيمان - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

That's just how it is. If Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم couldn't make his uncle believe, why should we think that we can make people believe? We can point people in the right direction and Allah guides them or He doesn't.