Whether you become an Ethiopian Orthodox Christian or any other denomination, it is because of faith and belief, not to magically change your ethnicity.
There are Whites in our Church, does not make them Ethiopian or any less White....
Christian Ethiopian worship song...in somali!
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Whether you become an Ethiopian Orthodox Christian or any other denomination, it is because of faith and belief, not to magically change your ethnicity.
There are Whites in our Church, does not make them Ethiopian or any less White....
We'll faith informs and influences culture, especially when that religion predates a lot of the cultural norms. You guys didn't suddenly become Christian, like other Subsaharan for instance. It is has been with you for almost 2000 years. Therefore, it has been a great influence on your culture, to the point where culture and religion are essentially one and then same.
Also, a white person converting to your religion doesn't mean jack. These mofos convert to even the most obscure Hindu sects, they're just weirdos. It's a lot different than a Somali converting since they can be assimilated more easily by Ethiopia than Johann from Bavaria.
1. Whether it is Ethiopian Christian or a different form of Christianity doesn't make much a difference (unless the religion is being used as a means to strip the indigenous culture [which doesn't have to happen by the way]). You would be willing to accept Somalis who convert to Cadaan Catholicism...but not ones who convert to Orthodox of Ethiopian neighbors (which, by the way, is MUCH more similar to Somali culture (& Islam) due to the proximity in HOA)???I didn't say if you're Christian you're no longer Somali. I said if you're Ethiopian Christian, you are no longer Somali.
Also, just because some Oromos are culturally similar to us, doesn't give them the right to claim Somali cities. Otherwise I can claim Addis Ababa/Finfinne.
P.S. Ahmed gurey was not Ethiopian, but a chief of the Habr Magaadle tribe.
2. Now you're only saying that Oromos are "culturally similar" when before you said "culturally indistinguishable"...that's quite the difference since that can be said about most countries in the HOA
...and I see you've also stopped claiming Hararis as being Somalis too?? At least progress is being made lol. By the way, you can't compare claiming Dire to Addis: Ogaden is just a federal state neighboring Oromia *Ogaden is not its own country yet*, there are a lot of Oromos living in Dire but there aren't a lot of Somalis living in Addis (or in other Oromia regions, for that matter), and lastly Addis is the capital of Ethiopia (in addition to being the capital of Oromia) and very mixed in terms of ethnic groups. You claiming Addis would only be a reasonable comparison if Oromos were expanding into Mogadishu.3. As for Gurey, his origins will always be contested but he could be Harari (thus, being Ethiopian by nationality...Harar is not part of Ogaden or other Somali areas). But if you wish to say he isn't Harari and claim him as Somali, I'm happy to let you do so...he can be darood since most of his army probably were...I refuse to accept him as Isaaq like you suggested though.
SuldaanGuled
Rag waa shaah dumarna waa sheeko.
Being "Somali" only requires that your blood lineage/heritage is indigenous to Somaliland/Ogaden/Djbouti/Somalia and that you have a qabil...nothing else.
I don't deny that religion, culture, and identity are tied very closely together...(especially in East Africa), but it's not impossible to separate them. Are all the Atheist Somalis on this forum no longer Somali by your standards also? Is it impossible for them to be patriots to the land they are from? This is like saying all the South Indians who converted from Hindu to Catholic are no longer Indians because a lot of Indian culture comes from Hinduism. Also, in terms of nationalism...you are discounting mindset, religion is not the only bond a people can have. Example: regardless of what many think, the Muslim Ummah isn't very strong...just look at all the political bs between Muslim Somalis and clan division, let alone the whole Muslim world.
People will always find differences to divide up, religion isn't as much of a unifier as you think. Also you mentioned that Hararis and Oromos are culturally indistinguishable from Somalis???? Wtf kind of bs is that? Hararis and Oromos are their own people with their own distinct history, language, AND culture...the very same people who make this claim that Hararis/Oromos = Somalis/sheikhaal are also the ones who get angry when Axmed Gurey is seen as Ethiopian. The very same people who make this claim are also the ones who get angry when Oromos expand to Dire...so much for being culturally undistinguishable?
P.S. The original Somali religion is Waaq.
Bal igu soo celi ?? maxaa tiri ? alaa qofkaan riyada jecelaa
nabad ku tiri, wale qofki nool baa waxaa arkay
Gumaysiga baa kula macaanaday miya ???
Wada ku qul qul macaanay
That is true, but that depends on where they are. That example is more likely to happen in the diaspora^, and it is near impossible to be assimilated outside of the country. There are some things religion affects our culture on but with a lot of things it doesn't. There is just as much harm done to culture when moving out of a country
.Clothing in the Church would be the only thing that changes, nothing else about someones culture should be affected by changing religion...
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We have the same beliefs as all other Oriental Orthodox Churches (not Eastern ones), and that is how we branched off the rest of Christianity.
Most Orthodox churches are region specific, less so with the others, but nearly all are.
1. Whether it is Ethiopian Christian or a different form of Christianity doesn't make much a difference (unless the religion is being used as a means to strip the indigenous culture [which doesn't have to happen by the way]). You would be willing to accept Somalis who convert to Cadaan Catholicism...but not ones who convert to Orthodox of Ethiopian neighbors (which, by the way, is MUCH more similar to Somali culture (& Islam) due to the proximity in HOA)???
Ethiopian Orthodox Christianity has long been used by the habeshi state to strip indigenous Cushitic people of their land, culture and identity. It is not like Catholicism for instance, which just requires you to be obedient to the Pope and not, say, the state of Italy. I would even bet the vast majority of 'Habesha' are in large portions of Cushitic stock.
2. Now you're only saying that Oromos are "culturally similar" when before you said "culturally indistinguishable"...that's quite the difference since that can be said about most countries in the HOA
I didn't claim Oromos and Hararis are Somali, I said they are culturally indistinguishable. Like how a Syrian and Egyptian are culturally indistinguishable. Doesn't mean there aren't any cultural differences. But to laymen like you and me, we wouldn't be able to tell without delving deeper into the cultures of both countries. I feel you're just trying to play a game of semantic one-upmanship.
3. As for Gurey, his origins will always be contested but he could be Harari (thus, being Ethiopian by nationality...Harar is not part of Ogaden or other Somali areas). But if you wish to say he isn't Harari and claim him as Somali, I'm happy to let you do so...he can be darood since most of his army probably were...I refuse to accept him as Isaaq like you suggested though.
Ahmed gurey is most certainly not Harari, he is the tribal chief of the Habr Magaadle clan. You're mistaking him for Imam Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi, the eponymous leader of the conquest of abyssinnia.
Lol, that's not true AT ALL. If that were so, you'd see Eritrean Christians (Tigrinya mainly) aligning with Xabashi Ethiopians over Saho, Kunama, some Tigre, etc brothers and sisters. **Again, you overestimate the power of religious bond in impacting identity while you should really be looking at mindset/shared struggles (and language/culture, to a lesser extent).
That is true, but that depends on where they are. That example is more likely to happen in the diaspora^, and it is near impossible to be assimilated outside of the country. There are some things religion affects our culture on but with a lot of things it doesn't. There is just as much harm done to culture when moving out of a country
Clothing in the Church would be the only thing that changes, nothing else about someones culture should be affected by changing religion...
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I've never met an Ethiopian Muslim who wasn't Somali, Afar, Oromo or harari, so I can't judge. But outside of the Tewahdo religion, I can't think of any specific Ethiopia cultural traits.
Uh, it's almost an ethnoreligion. Their political differences doesn't change that fact. The tewahedo church is inextricably linked with the Habesha people.
They're not in abundance in the diaspora that's whyI've never met an Ethiopian Muslim who wasn't Somali, Afar, Oromo or harari, so I can't judge. But outside of the Tewahdo religion, I can't think of any specific Ethiopia cultural traits.
I don't think you've fully understood what the guy is saying. If I was converting to Christianity (which would never happen as Christianity is an absurd nonsensical religion) I would choose the more well known and practiced branch's of Catholicism and Protestantism, not some obscure ancient offshoot that has little relevance outside of Ethiopia.*
*No offense to my Ethiopian friend, whose name I cannot read. I really wish you would tell us how to pronounce not as it's difficult to address you otherwise.
They're not in abundance in the diaspora that's why
Why? Because you guys are the oppressors forcing the other ethnic groups off their land?
For real though, I've never met any Oromo, afar or Hararis in the UK. I've only seen them in Somalia and Djibouti. I have actually seen quite a lot of Christian Habesha though in the UK, so your statement can't be true.
I have a question actually. Me and my buddies were jogging in the morning in our local park and saw a whole congregation of Habeshas dressed in white robes (I don't know if they were Ethiopian or Eritrean) and they were holding hands singing to trees. It was the funniest thing I saw, is it a religious ceremony?
Like I said in the previous post, you are overestimating the power of religion. If religious bond was so strong and Orthodox Christianity could have that brainwashing impact...Orthodox Christianity-practicing Eritrean Xabashi wouldn't see themselves as closer to "non-Xabashi" muslims (Rashaida, Saho) or non-Xabashi Catholic Christians(Kunama) than to Xabashi Etihopians who share the same faith.
Do you know what the definition of "indistinguishable" is sxb??? And you stated it as a fact, not from an outsiders perspective. It wouldn't make sense to say "well, it would seem like that to an outsider" because you are not talking to an outsider? There are cultural differences among clans and sub clans let alone with people from a completely different country...and you said Harais/Muslim Oromos, you didn't even specify Gurgura, Jarso, etc??? In terms of culture...I can easily tell Hararis and Oromos from a Somali; language, clothing styles, accent, etc. I'm not trying to play games or one up you, wallahi!! When it comes to the truth, especially in these kinds of topics, nuance matters!
Did Imam Ahmed lead a darood army?? If so, you're probably right about me confusing them. I'll look more into the history, I'm pretty sure his identity is still contested though (not that I'm that invested in claiming him).
I meant Tigrayan Muslims and Amhara Muslims are not in abundance in the diaspora. There are many Amhara's in London, I see them too, just like there are many Oromo's in Minnesota and Harari's in Toronto.Why? Because you guys are the oppressors forcing the other ethnic groups off their land?
For real though, I've never met any Oromo, afar or Hararis in the UK. I've only seen them in Somalia and Djibouti. I have actually seen quite a lot of Christian Habesha though in the UK, so your statement can't be true.
I have a question actually. Me and my buddies were jogging in the morning in our local park and saw a whole congregation of Habeshas dressed in white robes (I don't know if they were Ethiopian or Eritrean) and they were holding hands singing to trees. It was the funniest thing I saw, is it a religious ceremony?
And singing to a tree?
When was it and was it near a Church? We do not hold hands when praying...I meant Tigrayan Muslims and Amhara Muslims are not in abundance in the diaspora. There are many Amhara's in London, I see them too, just like there are many Oromo's in Minnesota and Harari's in Toronto.
And singing to a tree?
I don't know if they were singing to trees but they were surrounding huge oak trees and holding hands while singing. I can't remember what time of the year this was, maybe Easter or lent or something. I didn't know you guys worshipped trees?
Maybe they still have remnants from the old Pre-christian/Pre-islamic Waaqist religions.
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