Classical Islāmic Views on the Punishment for Apostasy

[Omar del Sur]

I understand that. I'm just saying executing someone for simply changing their beliefs is deeply dystopian and oppressive. Couldn't we just choose to not enforce this aspect of the faith? Leave it to God in the hereafter?

You can't just pick and choose which parts of the religion you want to believe in. It is not "dystopian and oppressive". it is part of the sharia. we have no right to disagree with it. just follow whatever the religion says. Allah knows better than we do.

I mean, for example- Islam tells us not to eat pork. someone might say "but what's wrong with eating pork?!" maybe I don't have a bunch of scientific facts at hand to explain scientifically why eating pork is bad. But if Islam says not to eat pork- we should follow it. whether we understand why or not. and maybe there's even more reasons that science hasn't discovered as to why we shouldn't eat pork.

so whatever the ruling is on something- we have to follow it whether we think it makes sense or not. as to what are some of the benefits of the law on apostasy- that's kind of a different discussion. firstly, you have to just accept what Islam says irrespective of whether it makes sense to your human intellect. Allah is Al-Hakeem- He is the All-Wise. Do any of us have greater wisdom than Allah?

but as to some of the benefits of the law on apostasy- someone who quietly is an apostate, doesn't preach his apostasy and keeps his apostasy to himself, almost certainly he'll be fine. it's prohibited to spy. there's nothing dystopian about the sharia. if he keeps it's to himself, he'll probably be fine. but if he goes around preaching apostasy- he can create chaos, he can misguide people. one of the flaws of the idea that an "open marketplace of ideas" will lead to the acceptance of the truth is that this idea thinks that humans are truly rational and will follow what is true. in reality, many people will reject truth and follow falsehood. look at India- those Hindus have had centuries to learn about Islam. yet they've stuck to paganism. so the truth will not necessarily win when it comes to the battle of ideas in the field of public opinion. people are liable to follow wrong ideas. a person who claims God doesn't exist, for example, is seriously deluded. yet- these kinds of people still potentially can misguide people. and in a society that rules by the sharia- Islam is the basis of the state, the basis of the social order and the bedrock of society. if you let apostates run wild in an Islamic state, this can lead to chaos. so actually, the law on apostasy is very merciful. rather than protect the murtad- it protects the interest of the entire society.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Unfortunately, the reason why vigilante harming of apostates occurs can be seen as a consequence of the Sharia being relegated to personal law in most Muslim nations. There is no proper court system using the Sharia as a full guideline because of the infiltration of European legal codes dating back to the colonial administrations of the 19th and 20th centuries. If there is no state-sanctioned carrying out of the Sharia then people often take it into their own hands, which is clearly an error.

well that's a different issue. if I make kitchen knives for chefs and someone buys one of the knives and stabs someone- that's their own fault. if I make a car and someone drives like an idiot- it's their fault. if someone goes out and they try to take the law into their own hands and carry out a legal punishment without the needed authority- it's their own fault. if a government passes a law specifying death penalty for murderers- if someone kills a murderer on their own, not in self-defense but as vigilante punishment- that's their own fault.

 

[HiraanBorn]

well that's a different issue. if I make kitchen knives for chefs and someone buys one of the knives and stabs someone- that's their own fault. if I make a car and someone drives like an idiot- it's their fault. if someone goes out and they try to take the law into their own hands and carry out a legal punishment without the needed authority- it's their own fault. if a government passes a law specifying death penalty for murderers- if someone kills a murderer on their own, not in self-defense but as vigilante punishment- that's their own fault.

Yes, it is a different issue but what I'm saying is that modern Muslim legal codes is likely correlated with vigilante harming of apostates. The Sharia in most Muslim majority nations deals mostly with familial disputes, inheritance and marriage contracts. The Sharia is not implemented when it comes to criminal cases and other serious social violations.

 

[Badboy4life]

People who change their religion from islaam should be killed. End of discussion.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Yes, it is a different issue but what I'm saying is that modern Muslim legal codes is likely correlated with vigilante harming of apostates. The Sharia in most Muslim majority nations deals mostly with familial disputes, inheritance and marriage contracts. The Sharia is not implemented when it comes to criminal cases and other serious social violations.

yes, sorry, I think I misunderstood your post at first. these threads get so many hostile responses so I think I misunderstood the post. I think you're one hundred percent right. and the sharia.... the sharia is the real law. so much more so than any man-made law. so if the state isn't implementing it- the state is failing in its responsibility. and when the state isn't upholding the law.... you'll very likely have people wanting to take the law into their own hands.

I mean for example.... a married woman commits adultery. the husband in a jealous rage murders his wife. then he ends up in prison with a life sentence or whatever. if the sharia is being upheld- the man can receive justice without having to take the law into his own hands. so when the sharia isn't being implemented- it can lead to these kinds of situations where you end up with this vigilante kind of behavior.

 

[Sheikh Google]

FBI/CIA defo monitor SS some of the posters on here have defo drank the crazy fundie koolaid.

 

[Dinaz]

yes, sorry, I think I misunderstood your post at first. these threads get so many hostile responses so I think I misunderstood the post. I think you're one hundred percent right. and the sharia.... the sharia is the real law. so much more so than any man-made law. so if the state isn't implementing it- the state is failing in its responsibility. and when the state isn't upholding the law.... you'll very likely have people wanting to take the law into their own hands.

I mean for example.... a married woman commits adultery. the husband in a jealous rage murders his wife. then he ends up in prison with a life sentence or whatever. if the sharia is being upheld- the man can receive justice without having to take the law into his own hands. so when the sharia isn't being implemented- it can lead to these kinds of situations where you end up with this vigilante kind of behavior.

what barbarism!!

 

[Omar del Sur]

what barbarism!!

given what you said about the Quran, it's no surprise you'd say such things about the sharia. of course ex-Muslims would say such things and you're very likely an ex-Muslim in disguise.

the quran has so many foolish things that no logical person would actually think is true

 

[Dinaz]

given what you said about the Quran, it's no surprise you'd say such things about the sharia. of course ex-Muslims would say such things and you're very likely an ex-Muslim in disguise.

boo hoo. what barbarism!!!