Confirmed: UAE Accepts Somaliland Passport

[TOGAHERER]

We received confirmation from the foreign ministry that: UAE has agreed to accept the Somaliland Passport

It has also been confirmed that the livestock ban will be removed over the next week

Furthermore the top general of Somaliland are in the UAE now to ficilitate the secuirty pact about to be signed which will provide Somaliland with heavy arms and training



It just got real.....

 

[Shadow]

source?

 

[TOGAHERER]

We destroyed Somalia with the second largest army in Africa. We built a unified nation from dust. Then they tried to deny us our God given right to dissolve the xaram union. The blessed Nation has prevailed, we gone for good and nothing anyone can do to stop us...

 

[TOGAHERER]

Somaliland foreign office official Twitter page it will be released officially soon.

 

[Shushue]

Somaliland deserves statehood but it’s stupid to sour relationship with its neighbor Somalia.

Sooner or later it has to trade and cooperate on difficult issue.

Its not good to hate your neighbour forever.

 

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

This all will lead to the Great War

Turkey training Hiraab ibn Hawiye

Arabs training Isaaq ibn Dir

 

[Steamdevolopment]

Somaliland deserves statehood but it’s stupid to sour relationship with its neighbor Somalia.

Sooner or later it has to trade and cooperate on difficult issue.

Its not good to hate your neighbour forever.

Your premise is wrong.

Only under positive theory does Somaliland have a right to secession, and most countries and the international community and precedent on self-determination disregard the theory because the requirements it sets are so few, it would lend to credence to most claims of independence.

Under both declarative and constitutive Somaliland fails to meet the criteria. Somaliland have a right to internal self-determination, but what you're implying is an extended right to external self-determination, which can only happen trough remedial secession and since Somaliland hasn't been denied internal self-determination as is extended to other states, it fails to met the remedial secession standard.

You can't argue that the secession is lawful under international law, which also why no country is recognizing its statehood, there is simply no lawful avenue.

 

[DRACO]

Your premise is wrong.

Only under positive theory does Somaliland have a right to secession, and most countries and the international community and precedent on self-determination disregard the theory because the requirements it sets are so few, it would lend to credence to most claims of independence.

Under both declarative and constitutive Somaliland fails to meet the criteria. Somaliland have a right to internal self-determination, but what you're implying is an extended right to external self-determination, which can only happen trough remedial secession and since Somaliland hasn't been denied internal self-determination as is extended to other states, it fails to met the remedial secession standard.

You can't argue that the secession is lawful under international law, which also why no country is recognizing its statehood, there is simply no lawful avenue.

All babble made no sense

 

[Steamdevolopment]

All babble made no sense

I'm glad you asked and I'm high on caffeine and resentment

They are three main theories for independence:

Constitive theory:
Under this theory Somaliland needs recognition from a state to be accepted as State under International law. Since it doesn't have recognition Somaliland fails to meet the criteria and even if it did have one or more state, the constitutive theory would mean that Somaliland would not be a state for other countries unless they recognize it.

This theory predominated but has since then declined in favor of declarative theory.

Declarative theory:
Under declarative theory Somaliland doesn't need recognition to achieve Statehood under International law. The criteria are shown in the Montevideo Convention and state that:

A state must have:

1: Defined territory, problems with terrorital disputes

2: Permanent population, only the people, not minorities have a right to self-determination, doubtful if Somaliland fits this category

3: A government, this is proven beyond doubt

4: Enter into agreement with other states and this criteria relates to the external self-determination, which Somaliland does not have, the question then comes do they have a right to it and thereby secession?

Redemial theory:
Under remedial theory secession and acquiring not yet gained external self-determination is possible as a last resort under the safe guard clause in the Montevideo convention. By example if the internal self-determination is denied and atrocities are being committed despite attempts to stop them then and only then can secession be allowed under declarative theory.

Eritrea was denied internal self-determination and thus could have gained independence under remedial theory but instead did under constitutive theory with Ethiopia's consent. Lastly there is Postive theory.

Positive theory:
Positive theory does not unlike remedial theory require injustice and various scholars set different standards but over all Somaliland could achieve independence under this theory, but its impact is limited as constitutive theory and declarative theory are the two main ones.

 

[Lordilord]

I'm glad you asked and I'm high on caffeine and resentment

They are three main theories for independence:

Constitive theory:
Under this theory Somaliland needs recognition from a state to be accepted as State under International law. Since it doesn't have recognition Somaliland fails to meet the criteria and even if it did have one or more state, the constitutive theory would mean that Somaliland would not be a state for other countries unless they recognize it.

This theory predominated but has since then declined in favor of declarative theory.

Declarative theory:
Under declarative theory Somaliland doesn't need recognition to achieve Statehood under International law. The criteria are shown in the Montevideo Convention and state that:

A state must have:

1: Defined territory, problems with terrorital disputes

2: Permanent population, only the people, not minorities have a right to self-determination, doubtful if Somaliland fits this category

3: A government, this is proven beyond doubt

4: Enter into agreement with other states and this criteria relates to the external self-determination, which Somaliland does not have, the question then comes do they have a right to it and thereby secession?

Redemial theory:
Under remedial theory secession and acquiring not yet gained external self-determination is possible as a last resort under the safe guard clause in the Montevideo convention. By example if the internal self-determination is denied and atrocities are being committed despite attempts to stop them then and only then can secession be allowed under declarative theory.

Eritrea was denied internal self-determination and thus could have gained independence under remedial theory but instead did under constitutive theory with Ethiopia's consent. Lastly there is Postive theory.

Positive theory:
Positive theory does not unlike remedial theory require injustice and various scholars set different standards but over all Somaliland could achieve independence under this theory, but its impact is limited as constitutive theory and declarative theory are the two main ones.

You are over reaching for something that you are against. I get it ciil ayaa ku haya it is alright.

Somaliland ticks all the requirements and even more.

Somaliland has one of the strongest legal case out of all unrecognized states.

There are plenty other powerful de facto states that have not accomplished what Somaliland has politically but are way richer than Somaliland.

 

[Steamdevolopment]

You are over reaching for something that you are against. I get it ciil ayaa ku haya it is alright.

Somaliland ticks all the requirements and even more.

Somaliland has one of the strongest legal case out of all unrecognized states.

There are plenty other powerful de facto states that have not accomplished what Somaliland has politically but are way richer than Somaliland.

You somehow came out more arrogance and understanding less of the material I represented.


First and foremost understand that even IF Somaliland achieved the requirements according to the declarative theory, it alone does not give Somaliland a legal basis for succession.

Somaliland and all de-facto countries have a right to internal self-determination, meaning to have a say and function in the areas they reside, however only under positive theory does Somaliland stand a chance of meeting the requirements for external self-determination.

The argument will have its focus point on external self-determination, and declarative external self-determination is only accepted under extreme circumstances, look for the Canadian Supreme court decision regarding Quebec regarding that, and Somaliland does not meet any of them and as such can't have external self-determination and hence no independence.

 

[Lordilord]

You somehow came out more arrogance and understanding less of the material I represented.


First and foremost understand that even IF Somaliland achieved the requirements according to the declarative theory, it alone does not give Somaliland a legal basis for succession.

Somaliland and all de-facto countries have a right to internal self-determination, meaning to have a say and function in the areas they reside, however only under positive theory does Somaliland stand a chance of meeting the requirements for external self-determination.

The argument will have its focus point on external self-determination, and declarative external self-determination is only accepted under extreme circumstances, look for the Canadian Supreme court decision regarding Quebec regarding that, and Somaliland does not meet any of them and as such can't have external self-determination and hence no independence.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say but the reason why the international community is not recognizing Somaliland is because of the possible consequences of doing that. They are afraid it will further ignite the already existing separatist movements in Africa and destabilize the whole region potentially.

 

[Steamdevolopment]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say but the reason why the international community is not recognizing Somaliland is because of the possible consequences of doing that. They are afraid it will further ignite the already existing separatist movements in Africa and destabilize the whole region potentially.

Don't change the subject.

The reasoning is both legal and geopolitical.

The legal:
In order for Somaliland to become independent without recognition it needs to do so under remedial secession, meaning as a last resort when extreme circumstances manifest and there is no other alternative. Specific requirements are laid out and none of those apply to Somaliland, and therefore it cannot have external self-determination.


The geopolitical:
The geopolitical view is that Somaliland is poor, that recognize Somaliland would set off a balkanization of the rest of Somalia, which is the african unions opinion and lastly that recognition of Somaliland would set precedent elsewhere when the conditions are relaxed to such a degree.

 

[Lordilord]

Don't change the subject.

The reasoning is both legal and geopolitical.

The legal:
In order for Somaliland to become independent without recognition it needs to do so under remedial secession, meaning as a last resort when extreme circumstances manifest and there is no other alternative. Specific requirements are laid out and none of those apply to Somaliland, and therefore it cannot have external self-determination.


The geopolitical:
The geopolitical view is that Somaliland is poor, that recognize Somaliland would set off a balkanization of the rest of Somalia, which is the african unions opinion and lastly that recognition of Somaliland would set precedent elsewhere when the conditions are relaxed to such a degree.

You make sense in some of your statements but Somaliland is already independent and considered a de facto state with the only thing missing being de jure recognition.

 

[Steamdevolopment]

You make sense in some of your statements but Somaliland is already independent and considered a de facto state with the only thing missing being de jure recognition.

If you look at the map they are many countries with de-facto independence, but it doesn't change their lack of statehood.

Also we are seeing a decline in declarative theory and a move towards constitutive theory making it harder for Somaliland to become independent .

Also remember that in the first 65 years the UN has not admitted a state into without the consent of its former state, see Bangladesh as example.

 

[Lordilord]

If you look at the map they are many countries with de-facto independence, but it doesn't change their lack of statehood.

Also we are seeing a decline in declarative theory and a move towards constitutive theory making it harder for Somaliland to become independent .

Also remember that in the first 65 years the UN has not admitted a state into without the consent of its former state, see Bangladesh as example.

Well obviously being recognized partially will enable us to further our freedom as an independent state. Approval from Somalia is not really necessary, we will function like Taiwan does..

Not having Somalia's approval 100 years from now wouldn't really matter, overtime IC will see that FGS have no authority. Like the recent event of the pathetic nullification of DP World deal.. It must have been utterly embarrassing for the government.

 

[Steamdevolopment]

Well obviously being recognized partially will enable us to further our freedom as an independent state. Approval from Somalia is not really necessary, we will function like Taiwan does..

Not having Somalia's approval 100 years from now wouldn't really matter, overtime IC will see that FGS have no authority. Like the recent event of the pathetic nullification of DP World deal.. It must have been utterly embarrassing for the government.

Somalia is still mostly de-jure and yet you have not for 27 years managed to escape it.

That's how powerful the sovereignty claim is.

 

[Lordilord]

Somalia is still mostly de-jure and yet you have not for 27 years managed to escape it.

That's how powerful the sovereignty claim is.

What claim? For 28 years we have been independent unlike Catalonia, Kurdistan etc we actually have independence.

We will function like Taiwan pretty much.

 

[Steamdevolopment]

What claim? For 28 years we have been independent unlike Catalonia, Kurdistan etc we actually have independence.

We will function like Taiwan pretty much.

Taiwan has alliances that Somaliland can only dream of


More importantly Taiwan is not independent and no does the US oppose the notion that Taiwan is actually a part of China, and Taiwan lacks ambassadors other basic services for their population.

Don't not compare where you do not compete

 

[TheJx]