Confirmed: UAE Accepts Somaliland Passport

[Lordilord]

Taiwan has alliances that Somaliland can only dream of


More importantly Taiwan is not independent and no does the US oppose the notion that Taiwan is actually a part of China, and Taiwan lacks ambassadors other basic services for their population.

Don't not compare where you do not compete

Taiwan is independent lol there is political complexity there but nonetheless they are indeed independent.

I meant in the future without Somalia's approval the Somaliland state would function in a way similar to Taiwan. Taiwan has allies like UAE you mean? Or does Somaliland has enemies like China? The only one really opposing Somaliland is Somalia.

You are so biased you read what you want to, let me reiterate Somaliland will never ever ever reunite with Somalia. Sooner you realize the better it is for you.

 

[MadNomad]

Proxy war incoming. Somalis truly are brain dead. If you destroy each other once again i'm denouncing my ethnicity.

 

[XamarCade]

Proxy war incoming. Somalis truly are brain dead. If you destroy each other once again i'm denouncing my ethnicity.

:siilaanyolaugh: them dhegacas will be playing us like fifa

 

[waraabe]

Your premise is wrong.

Only under positive theory does Somaliland have a right to secession, and most countries and the international community and precedent on self-determination disregard the theory because the requirements it sets are so few, it would lend to credence to most claims of independence.

Under both declarative and constitutive Somaliland fails to meet the criteria. Somaliland have a right to internal self-determination, but what you're implying is an extended right to external self-determination, which can only happen trough remedial secession and since Somaliland hasn't been denied internal self-determination as is extended to other states, it fails to met the remedial secession standard.

You can't argue that the secession is lawful under international law, which also why no country is recognizing its statehood, there is simply no lawful avenue.

actually it is legal under international law, the Arab republic which was created after the unification of Syria and Egypt was later dissolved when both countries sought their independence. Similarly, a recognised, independent nation Somaliland joined somalia in 1960 and regain its sovereignty after a failed union.


secondly, why are you denying SL independence while advocating for your people's succession from ethiopia ?

 

[DRACO]

secondly, why are you denying SL independence while advocating for your people's succession from ethiopia ?

True steam should focus on her Gobol and capital Addis Ababa . Ethiopia will never allow its territorial integrity to be stepped on by couple of Daroods

 

[Steamdevolopment]

actually it is legal under international law, the Arab republic which was created after the unification of Syria and Egypt was later dissolved when both countries sought their independence. Similarly, a recognised, independent nation Somaliland joined somalia in 1960 and regain its sovereignty after a failed union.


secondly, why are you denying SL independence while advocating for your people's succession from ethiopia ?

You are not just mixing apple and orange but show a lack of understanding both history and the implication of international law.

Syria could seceded from the Arab republic as it was denied internal-self determination and under went subjection for which the remedy was remedial secession, as they were a distinct people, not just a minority which claims to self-determination itself is dubious under international law.

Somaliland on the other hand does not meet the criteria for such remedy in its current condition and didn't meet neither the constitutive nor declarative criteria for statehood and thus can be denied external self-determination, which in essence would be a denial of its statehood.

Ogaden can quite argue that they are under alien subjection, that they have been denied internal self-determination and that a continous process with the Ethiopian government have failed to address the needs and as such and most importantly they fit the criteria of being a distinct people, for whom the right to self-determination is secured and not dubious.

 

[waraabe]

You are not just mixing apple and orange but show a lack of understanding both history and the implication of international law.

Syria could seceded from the Arab republic as it was denied internal-self determination and under went subjection for which the remedy was remedial secession, as they were a distinct people, not just a minority which claims to self-determination itself is dubious under international law.

Somaliland on the other hand does not meet the criteria for such remedy in its current condition and didn't meet neither the constitutive nor declarative criteria for statehood and thus can be denied external self-determination, which in essence would be a denial of its statehood.

Ogaden can quite argue that they are under alien subjection, that they have been denied internal self-determination and that a continous process with the Ethiopian government have failed to address the needs and as such and most importantly they fit the criteria of being a distinct people, for whom the right to self-determination is secured and not dubious.

this kids, is what we call argument for the sake of argument, Syrian and Egyptian model has already proved that Somaliland can regain its international seat, no ifs or buts. A voluntary union which was dissolved in 1997 by a 97% in favour in referendum


Somaliland was subjugated, all the important posts were taken by the italian colony and then later on we know about the genocidal tribal war conducted by the government of somalia. Its evident you are quite hypocritical. ogaden has no right to self determination as it was never a country to begin with. They are not distinct group because ethiopia is made up of many languages and groups so you cant use that as an excuse.

 

[Steamdevolopment]

this kids, is what we call argument for the sake of argument, Syrian and Egyptian model has already proved that Somaliland can regain its international seat, no ifs or buts. A voluntary union which was dissolved in 1997 by a 97% in favour in referendum


Somaliland was subjugated, all the important posts were taken by the italian colony and then later on we know about the genocidal tribal war conducted by the government of somalia. Its evident you are quite hypocritical. ogaden has no right to self determination as it was never a country to begin with. They are not distinct group because ethiopia is made up of many languages and groups so you cant use that as an excuse.

You argument fail under even basic rational basis.

The Syrian case is related to the Eriterian case, where internal self-determination was denied. You can't use a case for which the facts are significantly materially different than your own.

Somaliland should be judged on its current admission and not an event that took place in 1960 under the colonial era for which Somaliland and Somalia at the time both had right to secede under remedial secession, which recognizes colonial subjection.

In this case Somaliland is not being subjected or dominated at this monoment, in fact Somalia is merely claiming its sovereignty and nor activly reducing the internal self-determination , and since Somaliland can't be considered a distinct people from Somalia in neither ethnicity language religion and customs and as such can't be considered a people under international law with a right to self-determination but instead a collective of minorities.

Ogaden has a distinct people, faces alien subjection and domination and lacks meaningful internal self-determination and such has an access to remedial succession, and so does oromo people for that matter.

 

[Gambar]

This could be a good thing for landers. This means the tahriib can travel to UAE and have better relations and work there.

 

[waraabe]

You argument fail under even basic rational basis.

The Syrian case is related to the Eriterian case, where internal self-determination was denied. You can't use a case for which the facts are significantly materially different than your own.

Somaliland should be judged on its current admission and not an event that took place in 1960 under the colonial era for which Somaliland and Somalia at the time both had right to secede under remedial secession, which recognizes colonial subjection.

In this case Somaliland is not being subjected or dominated at this monoment, in fact Somalia is merely claiming its sovereignty and nor activly reducing the internal self-determination , and since Somaliland can't be considered a distinct people from Somalia in neither ethnicity language religion and customs and as such can't be considered a people under international law with a right to self-determination but instead a collective of minorities.

Ogaden has a distinct people, faces alien subjection and domination and lacks meaningful internal self-determination and such has an access to remedial succession, and so does oromo people for that matter.

you are emotional and not rational, Syria and Egypt were both colonies like Somalia and Somaliland, you say Somaliland isnt dominated at the moment but that is because Somaliland is independent and Somalia doesnt have the power to subjugate Somaliland. Similarly, you want us to believe ogaden has right to break away from Ethiopia because they dont share similar languages or religion but that isnt true, at least half of ethiopia is muslim, the k5 has some autonomy, there are like 100 different ethnicities with their own languages in Ethiopia so you cant use the 'different language' excuse to break away as every group will claim the same


Another thing too, Somaliland had a UN seat in 1960, thus was an independent nation before the terrible mistake of 1960, similarly syria and egypt were two seperate countries before they joined and then split, the ogaden has never been a country. the Oromo people are happy with Ethiopia and so are the other 99 ethnic groups

 

[Steamdevolopment]

you are emotional and not rational, Syria and Egypt were both colonies like Somalia and Somaliland, you say Somaliland isnt dominated at the moment but that is because Somaliland is independent and Somalia doesnt have the power to subjugate Somaliland. Similarly, you want us to believe ogaden has right to break away from Ethiopia because they dont share similar languages or religion but that isnt true, at least half of ethiopia is muslim, the k5 has some autonomy, there are like 100 different ethnicities with their own languages in Ethiopia so you cant use the 'different language' excuse to break away as every group will claim the same


Another thing too, Somaliland had a UN seat in 1960, thus was an independent nation before the terrible mistake of 1960, similarly syria and egypt were two seperate countries before they joined and then split, the ogaden has never been a country.

It is not emotional, it is called the legal method deduction method (retsdogmatisk metode) learn it first before you try to apply fact patterns to law.

On the point of Ogaden it is not limited to language but difference of such wide range that they are a distinct with an inherent right of self-determination. The question of wether the internal self-determination has been violated not will hinge if the right of “ the people” to freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development In this regard I will counter that:

1: Ogaden people have been denied to trough continuous use of irregularities in their elections and denial of representatives with popular support, including hand-picked members by the ruling or military

2: Indefinite prison of said representatives or political activist without proper due process

3:Disappearance without cause or reasoning of political activist

4: Forceful removal of citizens from ancestral areas without monetary compensation and with the threat of violence

5: Starvation of villages in search of ONFL members, essentially collective punishment

6: Lack of representation in high and influential political offices in Federal positions

7: All this is combined with a vast spree of basic human rights violations that rise to genocidal levels jf. https://www.hrw.org/report/2008/06/...crimes-against-humanity-ogaden-area-ethiopias

This is not an exhaustive list but shows clear and unambiguous access to remedial secession for Ogaden but even then it would counter stiff opposition as it counter the principle of sovereignty and the low succes rate of unilateral secession that would disrupt the territorial integrity of an existing State, Kosovo being the main example and it is doubtful if it sets a precedent since the International court didn't weigh on the matter and specifically choose to do it in a non-binding form.

On Somaliland:

If you studied law you would know to not concede the points of the opposing council.
You admit yourself that Somaliland is not subjectated, I would counter that it has more to with Somalia's meaningful control and lack of desire of a confrontation with monetary and increase support for the secession. Regardless the reasoning is irrelevant, but it means a dismissal of remedial succession under declarative theory.

Somaliland does not have met the criteria of the constitutive theory, lacking recognition but declarative theory does not require recognition but it does require subjection for remedial external-self determination. Lacking both Somaliland cannot make a claim under international law and the remainder of your arguments have character of mixing history with pseudo legalese.

 

[Mohsin]

How somaliland can win recognition.it's capital and cities look like garbage ,unpaved roads duty and stinking. Look Eritrea Capital it is called the Rome of Horn of Africa.no traffic signs and laws at all. Uncivilized people lawless.

 

[Yaquub]

Does that mean somalis can apply for dual citizenship?

 

[Abdalla]

I am sure you're confusing passports with food court coupons

 

[TOGAHERER]

I can't believe your debating with this guy: it's evident that Somaliland is an independent country the terms and definitions of a Country are defined in the : Montevideo Convention

Which states:

Characteristics Of A State

What are the characteristics of a state?

• There are four essential characteristics of a state which include population, territory, sovereignty, and government. Some sources list six or more characteristics when describing a state. Other characteristics may include a food supply, written records, and some type of commerce.
  
  1. Population: A state must have a population which may be variable in size. Populations may or may not share general political beliefs but the ones that do are the most stable. Mobility of the population can affect its political and governmental stability.
  
  2. Territory: States have established territorial boundaries. The size of the territory may change due to the acquisition or secession of land through political negotiations, purchase agreements, or by being overtaken by force such as during a war.
  
  3. Sovereignty: Sovereignty can be considered to be the key characteristic of a state. A state has full and absolute power within its territorial boundaries. States are independent with the power to make and enforce laws, establish foreign policy, and determine the future of its existence within the laws and boundaries.
  
  4. Government: All states have some type of organized government. Government allows the state to establish social order, provide public services, and to make decisions that affect the living conditions of all people living within the territorial boundaries of the state.
  

Somaliland meets all these on top of the fact that it was a sovereign nation that united with another sovereign nation.

Don't debate with people who argue against the sky being blue and grass being green

 

[TOGAHERER]

As for the deal:

Gentlemen we have gurenteed the prosperity and protection of Somaliland for a generation. These people thought because we were not recognised we be in limbo for enternity ....

Little did they know that we would receive billions in finding and military support.

This deal has fundemently changed the horn of Africa and my proof is look at the Djibouti's and Somalians moan...when your enemy moans your definitely on the right path

 

[Lordilord]

As for the deal:

Gentlemen we have gurenteed the prosperity and protection of Somaliland for a generation. These people thought because we were not recognised we be in limbo for enternity ....

Little did they know that we would receive billions in finding and military support.

This deal has fundemently changed the horn of Africa and my proof is look at the Djibouti's and Somalians moan...when your enemy moans your definitely on the right path

They are not ready for what is to come

 

[BANTU]

@Steamdevolopment you're absolutely lost wallahi

You actually think K5 has a legal claim to nationhood and SLand doesn't

They don't even want to secede lol

 

[waraabe]

@Steamdevolopment you're absolutely lost wallahi

You actually think K5 has a legal claim to nationhood and SLand doesn't

They don't even want to secede lol

marwo @Steamdevolopment hates the damn xabashis because her masters are kenyan

she is reer jubbaland

 

[Steamdevolopment]

@Steamdevolopment you're absolutely lost wallahi

You actually think K5 has a legal claim to nationhood and SLand doesn't

They don't even want to secede lol

Instead playing virtue signaling for your like-minded address the legal arguments and precedent I present. Remedial secession require extreme circumstances to allow external-self determination, meaning gaming sovereignty.

People can have self-determination, not minorities, and Somaliland doesn't qualify as a distinct people under international law and as such can't claim self-determination under most defintion except if the minority collective argument is held, and even then Somaliland does not meet the 3 accepted circumstances for external-self determination under remedial secession. Constrast that with Ogaden which is a distinct people, who's had denial of meaningful internal-self determination combined with human rights abuses, unequal treatment and unlawful use of force and thus it is eligible under the safe guard clause. Eligibility does not mean admissibility as even then Ogaden's claims have to contrasted with sovereignty of its current state and combined with geopolitical implication it would likely face denial of real independence, but under declarative theory it would be regarded as a state by de-jure.


On the subject of wether they want to secede no conclusion can be drawn as there isn't credible research on the issue, especially given the sanctions used against those who express desire for statehood.