Defensive and Offensive Jihad

[Sheikh Google]

Show the quotes that support the notion islam is a arabizing religion by its nature because its not

You are the very definition of you can lead a horse to water but cant make it drink. You are in the headspace of Islam being just an ideology when in fact the deen is so much more. It encompasses and ranges from theology to even banking. When I mean arabization you are thinking oh I must become a fully fledge Arab to become a Muslim, when you don't. However, the very term means one must accept customs and cultures that are in tune with where the deen originated from which is Arabia. Now speaking from a historical Islamic empire-building pov, I will put it into layman terms, you cannot have the people you have just conquered doing willy nilly, they have to accept your form of autocracy otherwise it won't work. That is why Arabic was heavily promoted I can already hear you saying what about Somalia or some other country that still speaks its own languages etc. when the parameters were different as to how they accepted the deen. That can have its own thread if you want. You must accept Islamic juridsipidence that was heavily influenced by the arabic thought (although it does take into account Justinian law in some areas but this may be some byzantine influence). One must offer prayer in the direction of the qibla which is situated in a foreign land in arabia. You only need to look at salafism that is heavily culturally influenced by arabs e.g wearing garments that is more in line with Arabic customs etc.. Somalia, for example, had its own version of hijabs and modesty that suited the climate or terrain however today the hijab has become full coverage and that is not the custom of our people. I can name many other forms but its too long and it will probably go over your head. Regardless it comes down to outside perspective, one might see it as divinity and therefore everything I mentioned is kafirnimo or if you look at it from a historical perspective then yes Islam can be seen as part of Arabization.

 

[Sheikh Google]

ok, the ridda war was on two fronts the front of murtads and the false prophets which we can agree that they fought against Islam and to carve a small nation for themselves.

the second front was against the people who refused to pay zakat and these people are split into two groups the first group are people who refused and didn't accept the concept of zakat at all and the second group are the ones who understand the hadith in the wrong way and though that the prophet is the only person who can take zakat from them and these group at end understood the hadith and made tawbah while the other groups got killed or returned to Islam

Like I said before it depends on divinity and believing the prophet was granted this divinity. However, even before the prophet and during his time e.g Musaylimah etc.. there were many others who shouted the claim of prophethood. Therefore when The Prophet united these tribalistic feuds under one god and his death was obviously going to cause a power vacuum. On to your second paragraph, this is the common misconception that many made tawbah and accepted the deen of their own accord. From a more historical pov it was a case of accepting and toe the line or pledge allegiance to perhaps a different tribe that you believed could concentrate power. 7th-century Arabia would make Somalia tribalism look like nothing lol. My point is the holy war perspective of tawbah etc... was not the case when it came to the ridda wars.

Donner, F - The Islamic conquests.pdf (almuslih.org)

Here is a couple of early chapters on fred donners brilliant book and ill try and find the other one later when I'm on my laptop. Will explain it from a historical perspective so you can gain an understanding of how allegiances during those times worked.

 

[Jackflower30]

You are the very definition of you can lead a horse to water but cant make it drink. You are in the headspace of Islam being just an ideology when in fact the deen is so much more. It encompasses and ranges from theology to even banking. When I mean arabization you are thinking oh I must become a fully fledge Arab to become a Muslim, when you don't. However, the very term means one must accept customs and cultures that are in tune with where the deen originated from which is Arabia. Now speaking from a historical Islamic empire-building pov, I will put it into layman terms, you cannot have the people you have just conquered doing willy nilly, they have to accept your form of autocracy otherwise it won't work. That is why Arabic was heavily promoted I can already hear you saying what about Somalia or some other country that still speaks its own languages etc. when the parameters were different as to how they accepted the deen. That can have its own thread if you want. You must accept Islamic juridsipidence that was heavily influenced by the arabic thought (although it does take into account Justinian law in some areas but this may be some byzantine influence). One must offer prayer in the direction of the qibla which is situated in a foreign land in arabia. You only need to look at salafism that is heavily culturally influenced by arabs e.g wearing garments that is more in line with Arabic customs etc.. Somalia, for example, had its own version of hijabs and modesty that suited the climate or terrain however today the hijab has become full coverage and that is not the custom of our people. I can name many other forms but its too long and it will probably go over your head. Regardless it comes down to outside perspective, one might see it as divinity and therefore everything I mentioned is kafirnimo or if you look at it from a historical perspective then yes Islam can be seen as part of Arabization.

This is not arabization this getting rid of things unacceptable to islam arabs had a purge of if its unislamic culture which arabia had gone through but still jahilliah remained in some aspects and what do you mean by arab though t nfluenced the madhabs this makes no sense? Qibla is just the location chosen by god as was also the first masjid created by adam (as) it has no links to the arab identity. Salafism seeked to emulate the way the prophet dressed which is not a requirement in islam you can wear your jeans and tshirt and still be a proper muslim.

Islam doesn't say dress like a arab but dress in the way you cover your awrah for men its the knees to the navel for women its the everything besides the face and hands while some ulama say the niqab.

 

[romanzolanski]

Are you calling islam a arab religion? You do know persians and turks spread islam into europe, central asia and south asia while amazighi berbers spread islam into spain and west africa even west africans like the fulani and hausa spread islam to other african groups.

Show the quotes that support the notion islam is a arabizing religion by its nature because its not

>has an arabic first name
>wears gulf arab clothing
>greets others in arabic(assalamualaikum)
>reads from an arabic holy book
>prays in arabic for the prayer to be accepted.
>prays facing arabia fives times a day.
>dominant islamic literature(quran, hadith, tafsirs) are all in arabic

"islam is not an arab religion"...☠

 

[Sheikh Google]

This is not arabization this getting rid of things unacceptable to islam arabs had a purge of if its unislamic culture which arabia had gone through but still jahilliah remained in some aspects and what do you mean by arab though t nfluenced the madhabs this makes no sense? Qibla is just the location chosen by god as was also the first masjid created by adam (as) it has no links to the arab identity. Salafism seeked to emulate the way the prophet dressed which is not a requirement in islam you can wear your jeans and tshirt and still be a proper muslim.

Islam doesn't say dress like a arab but dress in the way you cover your awrah for men its the knees to the navel for women its the everything besides the face and hands while some ulama say the niqab.

Ok, this is where we agree to disagree. Your answer is divinity then and not the historical perspective. That's all you had to say then. Islam is rightly chosen because its the divine religion of god. All I will say is the word of god is written in Arabic and is not understand by 90% of Muslims.

edit: Islamic theology was influenced by Arabic traditions that's is why mu'tazila which was heavily greek influenced and during Islamic history was pushed by the governance at one point died down and was replaced. Some including the salafs consider them heretics and not Muslims.

 

[Jackflower30]

>has an arabic first name
>wears gulf arab clothing
>greets others in arabic(assalamualaikum)
>reads from an arabic holy book
>prays in arabic for the prayer to be accepted.
>prays facing arabia fives times a day.
>dominant islamic literature(quran, hadith, tafsirs) are all in arabic

"islam is not an arab religion"...☠

My name is not arabic and islam allows non arabic names.

We can wear whatever calls we want as long as they cover our awrah.

This is mandated in islam to greet our fellow muslims.

Again this is mandated in islam and we can read the quran in our native tongue

We face the kabah the first house of god not arabia

Tafsir can be written in any language while the quran and hadith are in arabic which we can also learn and translate into our native languages.

Try again you failure.

 

[Jackflower30]

Ok, this is where we agree to disagree. Your answer is divinity then and not the historical perspective. That's all you had to say then. Islam is rightly chosen because its the divine religion of god. All I will say is the word of god is written in Arabic and is not understand by 90% of Muslims.

edit: Islamic theology was influenced by Arabic traditions that's is why mu'tazila which was heavily greek influenced and during Islamic history was pushed by the governance at one point died down and was replaced. Some including the salafs consider them heretics and not Muslims.

Of course my perspective will be through divinity and every muslim knows the meaning of allah we are taught it.

 

[Sheikh Google]

Of course my perspective will be through divinity and every muslim knows the meaning of allah we are taught it.

Fair enough. Although surely you must see from a historical perspective it and looking from it from the outside it is arabization to a certain degree. You could have easily been a Christian if history took another turn. Divinity is not an answer when it comes to history. I like to be unbiased although I do take into account the importance of divinity.

 

[romanzolanski]

We can wear whatever calls we want as long as they cover our awrah.

really?

We face the kabah the first house of god not arabia

where's the kabah? it's in saudi arabia, the arab homeland...

Again this is mandated in islam and we can read the quran in our native tongue

Tafsir can be written in any language while the quran and hadith are in arabic which we can also learn and translate into our native languages.

that literally doesn't matter because in order for your prayer to be accepted, you must pray in arabic...

 

[Jackflower30]

really?
View attachment 189164

where's the kabah? it's in saudi arabia, the arab homeland...


that literally doesn't matter because in order for your prayer to be accepted, you must pray in arabic...

Your post is idotic how is niqab arab culture when islam brought it to the arabs to wear? Even then women can wear traditional clothing but still have to cover their awrah.

The location doesn't matter the kabah only matters.

Still doesn't mean we can't learn the quran and hadith in our own language.

 

[Sheikh Google]

really?
View attachment 189164

where's the kabah? it's in saudi arabia, the arab homeland...


that literally doesn't matter because in order for your prayer to be accepted, you must pray in arabic...

When was somali culture wearing any of these heavily Arabized garments? Our own mothers and grandmothers never wore these.

 

[Jackflower30]

Fair enough. Although surely you must see from a historical perspective it and looking from it from the outside it is arabization to a certain degree. You could have easily been a Christian if history took another turn. Divinity is not an answer when it comes to history. I like to be unbiased although I do take into account the importance of divinity.

The only way you can say islam arabizes you in a historical context is only through learning to recite the quran but thats doesn't mean we have to get rid of our mother tongues.

 

[Jackflower30]

View attachment 189165

When was somali culture wearing any of these heavily Arabized garments? Our own mothers and grandmothers never wore these.

Did pre-islamic arabs wear these clothing now? women only started to wear these clothing so they cover more of their awrah.

 

[Sheikh Google]

The only way you can say islam arabizes you in a historical context is only through learning to recite the quran but thats doesn't mean we have to get rid of our mother tongues.

Tell that to the berbers and amazingh. Im going, to be honest with you, you need to learn the deen from a non-salafism doctrine. You will be surprised by the many insightful things and other issues that are hidden away. Salafism as practiced currently kills so many discussions and sugar coats so many issues that would be better off discussed through the lens of history and many other avenues. My last question to you is, can you speak Arabic if not then the word of god is not available to 90% of Muslims around the world who do not speak the language.

 

[Jackflower30]

Tell that to the berbers and amazingh. Im going, to be honest with you, you need to learn the deen from a non-salafism doctrine. You will be surprised by the many insightful things and other issues that are hidden away. Salafism as practiced currently kills so many discussions and sugar coats so many issues that would be better off discussed through the lens of history and many other avenues. My last question to you is, can you speak Arabic if not then the word of god is not available to 90% of Muslims around the world who do not speak the language.

Amazighi lands were controlled by arabs for a long time that promoted arabizm you can't apply the same logic to the hausa and wolof that were not controlled by arabs but still kept their culture and language and this why translations of the quran exist even arabs cant understand the quran properly because their dialects differ from quranic arabic

 

[Muzaffer]

Like I said before it depends on divinity and believing the prophet was granted this divinity. However, even before the prophet and during his time e.g Musaylimah etc.. there were many others who shouted the claim of prophethood. Therefore when The Prophet united these tribalistic feuds under one god and his death was obviously going to cause a power vacuum. On to your second paragraph, this is the common misconception that many made tawbah and accepted the deen of their own accord. From a more historical pov it was a case of accepting and toe the line or pledge allegiance to perhaps a different tribe that you believed could concentrate power. 7th-century Arabia would make Somalia tribalism look like nothing lol. My point is the holy war perspective of tawbah etc... was not the case when it came to the ridda wars.

Donner, F - The Islamic conquests.pdf (almuslih.org)

Here is a couple of early chapters on fred donners brilliant book and ill try and find the other one later when I'm on my laptop. Will explain it from a historical perspective so you can gain an understanding of how allegiances during those times worked.

ok, I respect your view but I don't take Islamic history from non-Muslims or from mustashriq.

I take it from Islamic scholars which is logical and I want to ask you do you know Arabic

 

[Muzaffer]

View attachment 189165

When was Somali culture wearing any of these heavily Arabized garments? Our own mothers and grandmothers never wore these.

wallahi, I'm happy to see this.

when we were under the caliphate (we Muslims) we spoke Arabic but nationalist cancer who the west gave us destroyed us look to the Islamic world now.

 

[Sheikh Google]

ok, I respect your view but I don't take Islamic history from non-Muslims or from mustashriq.

I take it from Islamic scholars which is logical and I want to ask you do you know Arabic

I think that's unfair to call fred donner a simple orientalist when he is an expert in Arabic studies etc... He used Islamic sources aswell as other historical contexts. I personally can read Arabic like most somali but I don't understand it, however anything I don't understand I email or ask a friend of mine who is well versed in Quranic studies which includes classical Arabic as some words in the Quran have Syriac origins to it.

 

[Jackflower30]

I think that's unfair to call fred donner a simple orientalist when he is an expert in Arabic studies etc... He used Islamic sources aswell as other historical contexts. I personally can read Arabic like most somali but I don't understand it, however anything I don't understand I email or ask a friend of mine who is well versed in Quranic studies which includes classical Arabic as some words in the Quran have Syriac origins to it.

Of course arabic is a semitic language like syriac

 

[Muzaffer]

I think that's unfair to call fred donner a simple orientalist when he is an expert in Arabic studies etc... He used Islamic sources aswell as other historical contexts. I personally can read Arabic like most somali but I don't understand it, however anything I don't understand I email or ask a friend of mine who is well versed in Quranic studies which includes classical Arabic as some words in the Quran have Syriac origins to it.

ok, I would like you to read the book called al bidayah wan nihayah which is the biggest Islamic history book which is very very detailed about events of Islam