Did Somalis have wheels
- Thread starter Yessirski
- Start date
We most certainly did as far back as the Middle-Ages as @Idilinaa has shown:
SOCIETY AND TECHNOLOGY IN ETHIOPIA 1500-1800
Also I've posted this video before but if you go to minute 41:00 this scholar talks about how as they get more sources on ethiopian history and they more critically examine them. There's a lot more skepticism on the authenticty of things like the attribution of the churches to lailabella or...
www.somalispot.com
Ironically, if you compare Christian Abyssinia to what is now Somaliweyn during the Middle-Ages and the earlier part of the early modern period, they were incredibly more backward as shown in the thread I linked above.
But all that aside, I don't get what the actual f*ck is the obsession with the wheel among some of the types on this forum. It's a big deal for developing industrial society but in pre-industrial society you have societies as "advanced" as the Aztecs that didn't use it and societies that were "primitive" in comparison like the Norse that did use it.
Y'all listening too much to dumb Nazis whose precious Europe got EVERYTHING from agriculture, to writing, to metallurgy to civilization from the Middle-East. ALL OF IT. But "Hur-dur, n*ggers... wheeel..." the abortion that should have happened writes on 4chan. Meanwhile, those "inferior" madows discovered everything I listed above independently:
West-Africans are actually impressive if one truly cares about stuff like agriculture and civilization. They discovered both plant and animal domestication independently as well as metallurgy and forms of proto-writing like Nsibidi. And their terracotta and bronze art is some pretty impressive stuff on par with anything out of the Middle East or China. These guys were mostly just behind in terms of monumental architecture but even then stuff like Ashanti architecture or Sudano-Sahelian architecture, if you believe the latter is mostly native, is fairly impressive. And not to mention that they discovered all of this alone which is more than can be said for cadaans who had to have everything I just outlined exported to them from the Middle East via the Aegean.
West-Africa is in many ways one of the original cultural cradles of mankind alongside the Fertile Crescent, Eastern China and Mesoamerica. It was even the home of a massive, demographic changing expansion like the former two.
Besides, the wheel is overhyped as f*ck in terms of pre-modern transport. It existed in the Sahara as far back as the bronze-age and was arguably spread to some extent to West-African types along the Sahel by Berber-related people but guess what? Pretty much disappeared immediately as anything useful when the camel showed up. Until the modern automobile absolutely nothing matched the camel in terms of transporting goods across arid regions. Wheel kulaha. You niggas need to get on LinkedIn and worry about more important matters.
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Wheel is useless without roads
Yes we had wheels Somalia was knew as Punt in the ancient time. In addition you have to know what I wheel is and what it's used for. for instance Punt or Macrobians made pottery for you to make pottery you need a pottery wheel. A wheel is a primitive technology for instance we were knew for our ship building technology. Now what's more advance a wheel or a ship the cross the ocean.
The ancient Somali city-states of the Macrobia Kingdom used the beden, a double-masted ship, for trade. The beden was a fast and durable ship that was the main trading vessel for the region.
Explanation
The Macrobia Kingdom was made up of city-states in Somalia, including Mosylon, Opone, Malao, Sarapion, Mundus, Essina, and Tabae. The city-states were part of a lucrative trade network that connected them with merchants from other regions. The Macrobians traded items such as frankincense, myrrh, cassia, and incense.
The beden was the main ship used for trade because of its speed. The Somali city-states traded with Phoenicia, Ptolemic Egypt, Greece, Parthian Persia, Sheba, Nabataea, and the Roman Empire.
The ancient Somali city-states of the Macrobia Kingdom used the beden, a double-masted ship, for trade. The beden was a fast and durable ship that was the main trading vessel for the region.
Explanation
The Macrobia Kingdom was made up of city-states in Somalia, including Mosylon, Opone, Malao, Sarapion, Mundus, Essina, and Tabae. The city-states were part of a lucrative trade network that connected them with merchants from other regions. The Macrobians traded items such as frankincense, myrrh, cassia, and incense.
The beden was the main ship used for trade because of its speed. The Somali city-states traded with Phoenicia, Ptolemic Egypt, Greece, Parthian Persia, Sheba, Nabataea, and the Roman Empire.
Nigga this is what our ancestors 100 years ago use to rest their head on
xaaaax my neck and body hurts just from looking at that
the truth is saxib we were a unsophisticated people with spears with no written language to record our history relying on langaab primitive oral traditions like other butt naked africans
xaaaax my neck and body hurts just from looking at that
the truth is saxib we were a unsophisticated people with spears with no written language to record our history relying on langaab primitive oral traditions like other butt naked africans
You know OP actually gots a point, I wonder how the hell we moved cannons/heavy equipment in the ethiopian highlands, general mode of transport/logistics was camel but for heavy goods what did somalis use to transport them especially over harsh terrain and throughout somaliweyne.What did we use to move canons over abyssinian mountains 600 years ago
Sunflower oil? Maybe butter?
I mean look at the size of this thing, no way they are using camels to transport that in mountains.
Yes Somalis had wheels. I actually covered it briefly in my agricultural thread
They used a mechanical sesame oil pressing machine where the engine of the wheel was driven by the camel. This indicates advanced agricultural specialization not just relying on grain, but producing valuable oil crops that were used for cooking, cosmetics, and trade.
They used mechanical textile wheels, which allowed for mass production cloth.
They used the potter wheel standardization of pottery, enabling the production of high-quality goods in large quantities for both local consumption and trade.
They used a ship helm: from the old Somali museum, probably wasn't too common
Somalis used mechanical water wheels driven by oxens.
Not only Ibn Battuta but Chinese also mentioned this when they visited Somalia
We also have some historical references to grain mills: It actually fits with how advanced the agricultural system in North-western regions were during Medieval sultanates.
''whom i would put to work in a mill''
Where grain was processed into flour and stored for long-term use. This is in line with what we know about what was reported about Berbera, how they had many thousands of tons of flour they had stocked in ships.
But they rarely used the wheel for transport, because large parts of the Middle East, North Africa abandoned the wheel with the introduction of the camel. Transporting goods via camels were more efficient that than the wagon or a cart driven by an oxen.
www.notechmagazine.com
The introduction of the camel was game changer really. In the thread @Shimbiris linked i was arguing that Ethiopian's mountain areas made it difficult for transport and creating trade networks and that their lack of camel adoption hampered them.
Somali Agricultural Revolution( 900-1600s) ?
I have been looking at various historical trends and linkages and came across. The Arab Agricultural Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Agricultural_Revolution which took places through the entirety of the medieval period. Which made me think that Somalia might have been connected to...
www.somalispot.com
They used a mechanical sesame oil pressing machine where the engine of the wheel was driven by the camel. This indicates advanced agricultural specialization not just relying on grain, but producing valuable oil crops that were used for cooking, cosmetics, and trade.
They used mechanical textile wheels, which allowed for mass production cloth.
They used the potter wheel standardization of pottery, enabling the production of high-quality goods in large quantities for both local consumption and trade.
They used a ship helm: from the old Somali museum, probably wasn't too common
Somalis used mechanical water wheels driven by oxens.
Not only Ibn Battuta but Chinese also mentioned this when they visited Somalia
We also have some historical references to grain mills: It actually fits with how advanced the agricultural system in North-western regions were during Medieval sultanates.
''whom i would put to work in a mill''
Where grain was processed into flour and stored for long-term use. This is in line with what we know about what was reported about Berbera, how they had many thousands of tons of flour they had stocked in ships.
We have a manuscript that talks about a flood that hit it the city of Berbera, that sunk 20 ships from the port that was loaded with 2 thousand tons of food and a large amount of grains.
That amount of food would have sustained a population of 40,000–60,000 people.
''The great flood of Berbera 1494AD Quoting from بغية المستفيد في أخبار مدينة زبيد & و ذيله الفضل المزيد في تاريخ زبيد لي written by ibn al-Dayba’ al-Shaibani in the year
811AH/1408AD "On the fifth day of Jumada al-Awwal, a great flood struck the island of Berbera, causing twenty-six ships to sink in its port, loaded with over two thousand tons of food and a considerable amount of flour. There is no power or strength except with God.''
x.com
www.x.com
Mind you that as we have seen from the European reports by the northern sultanate was a food exporter soo it was probably a surplus meant for other markets.
'' This renders the country rich in grain, fruit, and other provisions, that part of it is conveyed (exported) into the neighboring kingdoms. In particular, they have plenty of wheat, barley, and millet, and a variety of cows, sheep, and more''
Which means , the city's local food stores would have exceeded the lost shipment.
But they rarely used the wheel for transport, because large parts of the Middle East, North Africa abandoned the wheel with the introduction of the camel. Transporting goods via camels were more efficient that than the wagon or a cart driven by an oxen.
The Best Invention Since The Wheel
The Best Invention Since The Wheel
The introduction of the camel was game changer really. In the thread @Shimbiris linked i was arguing that Ethiopian's mountain areas made it difficult for transport and creating trade networks and that their lack of camel adoption hampered them.
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One of the biggest differences between Somalia and Ethiopia was the agricultural innovation and mechanization and hydraulic technological usages.
There is a reason why NorthernWestern and Southern Somalia was a major food exporter, was also exporting even water resources to their neighbors and was largely just self-sustaining. The other thing also would be trade and industry building
The wheel was invented in the near east then spread to the whole of north africa , basically , egypt, sudan and horn. They used to oxen, donkeys and horses to pull wheeled carts. Then it was subsequently abandoned when the camel was introduced. There was no longer need for it outside exceptional situations.
But when people bring up the topic of the wheel transport is because they borrow talking points from White supremacists that project Eurocentrism, that can't see that human populations elsewhere outside of Europe adapt to their environment or are limited/guided by geography.
In Middle East, North-East Africa, the camel caravan was more practical, cost-effective, adaptable and efficient mode of transport.
What did we use to move canons over abyssinian mountains 600 years ago
Sunflower oil? Maybe butter?
They might have used camel carts or donkey carts. I remember reading how in exceptional specialized cases the Ottomans used camel-drawn carts because cannons were far too heavy to be carried by pack animals or transported efficiently by human labor. So they often used camel trains with large carts specially designed to carry artillery and other heavy materials to battlefield locations.
I also read from the Historical dictionary that they used camel carts to transport building materials in Somalia.
So this might be unique to these exceptional cases for specialized purposes to carry large heavy transport equipments. Heavy materials like stone, timber, and building supplies would need to be often transported using donkey/camel-drawn carts.
Another thing they could have possibly done 600 years ago is use wooden sledges to drag heavy loads via camel caravans.
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Somalis were actually famous for selling Egyptian “Misri” cloth to inland Africans. Somali traders were also responsible for introducing many modern inventions to neighbouring inland Africans. Somalis were connected to deep international trade networks since antiquity. You simply can’t compare Somalis to some of those Ethiopian tribes. Our scholars were spreading Islam to these people in Ethiopia and as far as Sudan. Somali scholars like Al zaylai are points of references in the Hanafi tradition. We had trading quarters reserved for us in at least in three Yemeni cities. Our scholars founded city’s in Yemen.
Somali oral stories aren’t also primitive. Rules of war such as Birmigeydo (prohibitions and war conduct with non combatants) are very complex and far ahead of many societies who only recently codified prohibition of attacking elderly/women etc. There are studies discussing whether Somali stories such as the lions share came from Aesop through Rumi or Persians, perhaps indigenous, These kind of literary discussions do not happen about many other African societies because Somalis simply were not some landlocked tribesmen isolated from the rest of the world.
some of you guys need to get out of these self depreciating posts bordering on self hated and minstrel Coon behaviour. You don’t have to believe Somalis were the Abbasids or Ottomans. There is a middle ground though and it isn’t to be found in comparing Somalis to “naked tribesmen”.
I keep saying that people on this forum are just filled to the brim with unresolved grudge towards the Somali collective. People like @johnsepei5 need to check themselves into mental clinics. That type of wooden headrest was preferred over soft pillows in many parts of the middle east and Africa, they also used wooden stools, there is nothing primitive about it required craftmanship to craft it.
Somalis were one of the earliest Africans to use cannons and guns from the 1500s. They were using them quite frequently before the eve of colonization in warfare. They even used rifles/cannons to form trade colonies in distant lands like the Sharif did. For example the forts and towers in Berbera had canons pointed towards the sea guarding it.
Soldiers dressed for battle wearing bandoliers ammunition belts and carrying rifles stand atop the Hobyo fort.
Prominent trade colonist Sharif Hussein
Before the introduction of guns they also used swords , iron mail armor, shields and lances. Not just spears
Somalia also was a hub of scholarship and manuscript production, with many learning centers.
A Sahliyah Tariqa order student.
You had Somali scholars who even built large madrassas in major city centers.
Unlike the Swahili coast Somalis didn't mostly import scholars and written materials. We actively exported it and produced it. It wasn't just Al-Zaylai , there was Somali scholars throughout the 1800s with the nisba Al-Sumal that were imams, heads and deans of Zawiyas and learning institutions in places like the Damascus and Cairo.
We had our native intellectual culture led by local Tariqa orders and learning centers. The Swahili coast had less local Islamic scholarship and relied more on imported scholars from the Middle East.
We were not a strict oral society, we had a clear written culture. Somalis communicated via letters, kept administrative records, wrote a few chronicles on important historical events, kept records of genealogies, hagiographies, and religious texts/poems.
''Butt naked Africans'' is the most bizarre thing in all of this i have heard when you consider the fact Somalis were one of the biggest textile exporters and manufacturers of cloth in Africa. This continued into the early 1900s as well.
Hotchick12
VIP
so did ancient egyptians
The complexity and sopshication of somali poetry. Is to me the best evidence of somali civilization being incredibly old. I have literally looked at probably dozens of poetic traditions across the world. Outside of the very well know large literary traditions like Chinese, arabic, persian, greek Latin, sanskirt, etc. None of the other come close in variety of poetic forms. And metetrical complexity. 19th century Somali poets even refrence older poets and poems within thier poetry. You don't find this level of intertexuality Outside literate civilizations.
What makes this surprising is that most literary traditions borrow from another older tradition. The Japanese borrowed from Chinese. The persins borrowed from arabia. All the European traditions borrowed from greek. But the somali poetic tradition is independent. People like b.w andrewzki speculate that the lack of arabic influence means that somali poetry was likley a fully developed tradition in the preislamic period .
It's also incredibly strange how nothing close to this exists Outside the somali penisula in the rest of the horn of africa. You have poetic traditions amongst the rest of the horn of africa that even shares certian similarties with ours . But it's more on the level of what you'd expect from oral and folk poetry found amongst all cultures. The only logical conclusion is that something spurred the development of somali poetic tradition to a higher level even before the arrival of islam. This is also something that would have taken centuries at the very least.
I also recently made a post about the Somali 28 lunar mansions which developed outside of influence from Arabic, Indian and Chinese lunar mansions. You won’t find these kind of concepts in many other African societies.
Back to Somali literary devices, The Somali word Maanso is actually similar to Arabic mansuub, meaning ordered and poetry/chanting of a higher status. Again, it is not a loan word, and would therefore indicate the early Somalis in the horn were using some refined poetic devices even in the pre Islamic era.
in the 20th century, poets like Af Gaalooc of Burco (I made a post in the culture section about him) were making poetry warning Somalis about how the English would steal their gold like the people of Punjab. How many other so called “oral African societies” were making these kind of references? European researchers found Somali buranbuur about the Sahaba composed in Arabic. Sayid Muhammad poetry does not read like that of a sheltered African unaware of the world. He was exchanging written religious refutations in Arabic with opposing scholars while at the same excelling in oral Somali poetry. The whole completely “oral society” falls fall on its face when you consider some of these things.
We must also be careful how we define other African societies, too. The wooden carved pillows described in this thread were actually pieces of art for their time and probably invented somewhere in ancient Egypt or Nubia. They were a symbol of status and held religious status: we find pharaohs buried with them. We must not all also assume Somalis in Harar, Zeila or Muqdisho were using these kind of wooden pillows. I am pretty certain they would have been familiar with some sister style early pillows or cushions.
ps. Some inland African ethnic groups like the oromos have some complex political systems like Gada system used to elect their leaders. They also had military systems and guerilla warfare tactics which troubled many of the neighbouring literate Muslim/ Christian states. These guys were giving their soldiers small balls of coffee juice in the 15th century and they knew it had an impact on their energy.
For sure people shouldn't underestimate what other african societies aren't capable of.
Now with all that being said I don't want anyone
To think that the gap between Europe and us in Africa wasn't large before modern industrialization.
The finished building this in England in the year 1311. This was the tallest building in the world and in human history for 238 years till 1549 . They started construction in the mid 1100s.
This was being built when Europe was coming out of the dark ages as well.
But this ignores the fact that large structures like these are usually built either for necessity or cultural religious reasons. If there's none of these elements then people have no reason to build such structures. It doesn't mean African or even other Near eastern were incapable of it.
If there is no strategic, economic, or ideological motivation, societies won't invest the enormous labor, resources, and planning required for monumental construction.
Africa had its own great architectural and economic centers, though they were structured differently from Europe's cathedral-driven urbanization.
Cities in East Africa had coral-stone palaces, mosques, and multi-story buildings.
There are monumental buildings but a lot of it is in ruined or abandoned.
Outside of Somalia/East African coast and North Africa, the rest of Africa didn't have complex long distance trade networks that would draw in this level wealth to finance it and thats owed to their geography that made them more isolated and prevented movement.
They had resource wealth in terms of gold but not trade wealth. they also didn't have the building materials that would be durable enough. Why do you think they used adobe and clay in some of those buildings in your first post?
It's much more preferable to use solid stone if it was avaliable, because clay, rammed earth/tatch work has to be constantly reinforced which is extremely labour intensive.
Those you showed are just built on top of mountains where as the forts i've shown were built on flat landscapes.
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