Did Somalis write with Sabean?

[HabarSteven12]

@HabarSteven12

No those are modern benadir folks who wrote books on the subject. I'm telling you to cite the source material they use for there hypothesis and what exactly that's based off. You can't just post book names from authors with clear biases I'm not gonna read all that nonsense I want the primary sources. They aren't sources. I could write a book today asserting the opposite that doesn't mean my work is a source.

I already agree that arabs had a presence and cultural influences and that's the only stuff you actually went out of your way to prove when I already agree. I'm asking for the proof that they actually founded somali coastal cites which so far only your statement backs that up. I haven't seen any academic literature cited by yourself on that point which is the main point of contention.

Do you really think their books would have been published if they displayed clear biases and academic dishonesty? Come on, you could do better than that. All their sources were verified by prominent intellectual scholars. You just keep discrediting it. They used historical documents, archeological evidence, and written manuscripts. Now you are discrediting not just one book but numerous academic books written by well-established intellectual scholars.

Enrico Cerulli ascribes the foundation of Mogadishu to Arab refugees from the al-Aḥsā tribe. They settled on the coastal parts of the Indian Ocean coast in present-day Somalia. Zaborski says contact with the Arabian Peninsula and its inhabitants must have been going on since time immemorial and well predated Islam. .

 

[Odious Delirium]

Do you really think their books would have been published if they displayed clear biases and academic dishonesty? Come on, you could do better than that. All their sources were verified by prominent intellectual scholars. You just keep discrediting it. They used historical documents, archeological evidence, and written manuscripts. Now you are discrediting not just one book but numerous academic books written by well-established intellectual scholars.

Enrico Cerulli ascribes the foundation of Mogadishu to Arab refugees from the al-Aḥsā tribe. They settled on the coastal parts of the Indian Ocean coast in present-day Somalia. Zaborski says contact with the Arabian Peninsula and its inhabitants must have been going on since time immemorial and well predated Islam. .

See what I mean settled and founded are 2 different things so now that your trying to cite things that could be relevant you end up citing nothing. Your second citation also doesn't say anything I haven't said bring citations for them founding not settling with natives which is what your citations say.

My point is that nothing you have said is supported by anyone. Somali City states being founded by arabs is your statement bring proof since that's your claim or backpeddle away from that assertion.

I'm still waiting so far you have just been going round in circles around the point of presence which I already stated I agreed with.

 

[Bari🐍]

Do you really think their books would have been published if they displayed clear biases and academic dishonesty? Come on, you could do better than that. All their sources were verified by prominent intellectual scholars. You just keep discrediting it. They used historical documents, archeological evidence, and written manuscripts. Now you are discrediting not just one book but numerous academic books written by well-established intellectual scholars.

Enrico Cerulli ascribes the foundation of Mogadishu to Arab refugees from the al-Aḥsā tribe. They settled on the coastal parts of the Indian Ocean coast in present-day Somalia. Zaborski says contact with the Arabian Peninsula and its inhabitants must have been going on since time immemorial and well predated Islam. .

I thought they were indigenous for 2000 years like you claimed? The story keeps changing with you Ms. Amhara

 

[HabarSteven12]

You don't know what you're talking about

Lol you are quoting Puntland vault . That guy is a Majeerteen supremacist troll and I have debated him numerous times on twitter. Is that your troll account @Bari🐍. Muḥammad ibn Muʾmin ibn Ādam ibn ʿUthmān ibn Ali al-Laylkasī al-Shāfiʿī was not Somali. He was an Arab. Even Wikipedia doesn't mention he was Somali. Delusional Incel. No mention of his qabil or Somali identity in any written academic source. I can't believe all along I was debating you on twitter.

 

[Bari🐍]

Lol you are quoting Puntland vault . That guy is a Majeerteen supremacist troll and I have debated him numerous times on twitter. Is that your troll account @Bari🐍. Muḥammad ibn Muʾmin ibn Ādam ibn ʿUthmān ibn Ali al-Laylkasī al-Shāfiʿī was not Somali. He was an Arab. Even Wikipedia doesn't mention he was Somali. Delusional Incel. No mention of his qabil or Somali identity in any written academic source. I can't believe all along I was debating you on twitter.

He is leelkase. Literally in his name Muḥammad ibn Muʾmin ibn Ādam ibn ʿUthmān ibn ʻAlī al-Laylkasī al-Shāfiʿī

https://hmml.org/stories/migration-digitization-preservation-of-a-somali-manuscript/

 

[HabarSteven12]

I thought they were indigenous for 2000 years like you claimed? The story keeps changing with you Ms. Amhara

Read the bottom part. "Contact with the Arabian Peninsula and its inhabitants must have been going on since time immemorial and well predated Islam." Pre- Arabs were well connected to Mogadishu.

 

[Bari🐍]

This is how you know @HabarSteven12 is a troll. She calls him an Arab when he has Leelkase in his name and his family is the one in possession of the manuscript. Purely just saying stuff to discredit Somalis even if it means sounding stupid.

 

[HabarSteven12]

He is leelkase. Literally in his name Muḥammad ibn Muʾmin ibn Ādam ibn ʿUthmān ibn ʻAlī al-Laylkasī al-Shāfiʿī

https://hmml.org/stories/migration-digitization-preservation-of-a-somali-manuscript/

You made that sh*t up. He wasn't Leelkase. Wallahi, you are one of the biggest trolls I have encountered. You just pulled that out of your ass. Laylkasi has nothing to do with the Leelkase clan. His name is of Arabic origin. Do you even know what layl means in Arabic? Do you know what Kasi means in Arabic? You are one big liar, and I pray Allah holds you accountable on the day of judgment. It's actually a major sin to lie about someone's lineage.

 

[HabarSteven12]

This is how you know @HabarSteven12 is a troll. She calls him an Arab when he has Leelkase in his name and his family is the one in possession of the manuscript. Purely just saying stuff to discredit Somalis even if it means sounding stupid.

On top of that you quoted a notorious troll from Twitter who I previously interacted with. Now I know that's your troll account. No need to hide it.

 

[Bari🐍]

You made that sh*t up. He wasn't Leelkase. Wallahi, you are one of the biggest trolls I have encountered. You just pulled that out of your ass. Laylkasi has nothing to do with the Leelkase clan. His name is of Arabic origin. Do you even know what layl means in Arabic? Do you know what Kasi means in Arabic? You are one big liar, and I pray Allah holds you accountable on the day of judgment. It's actually a major sin to lie about someone's lineage.

The guy who translated it is related to him you sheegato! How are you going to claim he is an Arab?! There's something actually wrong with you

 

[HabarSteven12]

See what I mean settled and founded are 2 different things so now that your trying to cite things that could be relevant you end up citing nothing. Your second citation also doesn't say anything I haven't said bring citations for them founding not settling with natives which is what your citations say.

My point is that nothing you have said is supported by anyone. Somali City states being founded by arabs is your statement bring proof since that's your claim or backpeddle away from that assertion.

I'm still waiting so far you have just been going round in circles around the point of presence which I already stated I agreed with.

Do you not know how to read. If you are struggling to comprehend basic academic sources than just imagine how you would handle complex academic literature. Enrico cerulli ascribes the "foundation" of Mogadishu to Arab refugees from the al-Aḥsā tribe. Do you not know what foundation means?

 

[Bari🐍]

Do you not know how to read. If you are struggling to comprehend basic academic sources than just imagine how you would handle complex academic literature. Enrico cerulli ascribes the "foundation" of Mogadishu to Arab refugees from the al-Aḥsā tribe. Do you not know what foundation means?

Just a few messages ago you were claiming someone you have no knowledge of was Arab, so I wouldn't be questioning others intelligence

 

[Odious Delirium]

Do you not know how to read. If you are struggling to comprehend basic academic sources than just imagine how you would handle complex academic literature. Enrico cerulli ascribes the "foundation" of Mogadishu to Arab refugees from the al-Aḥsā tribe. Do you not know what foundation means?

Based on what tho. He said that but based on what? I don't care for opinions I want solid facts.

Post extract where they say that aswell as why they say that

 

[Haragwaafi]

My father took part of that program during his last year of secondary school moving around in the rural areas in east of modern day SL and going to mudug region teaching nomads the new Somali script.

 

[Somali_patriotic]

Many Somalis have traditionally learned to read, write, and recite ARABIC to learn the Quran by heart. While there isn't an exact count of how many Somalis practiced this, it's deeply rooted in Somali culture and continues to thrive. This suggests that historical Somali literacy rates might have been quite impressive.

I'm talking about nomadic communities btw not those who live in the cities
They could write and read arabic using Loox

Portrait of somalis learning Qur'an in badiyo in mid 1800s

Potrait of somalis writing Arabic on looxs in late 1800s

In 1970s the 5% who could read and write are probably those who could write Somali language and read it using osmaniya or far wadaad
Not including those who could read and write in the sense of reading and writing what you hear

You can today go to a random village in somalia and see how the children can read and write arabic
Me myself who was raised in a tuulo
I've learnt how to read, write and speak arabic using Loox.

There's many examples of Somali written books before modern history like the books of sheikh Uways al qadiri
Or the oldest surviving one being the book of Muḥammad ibn Muʾmin ibn Ādam ibn ʿUthmān ibn ʻAlī al-Laylkasī
There's actually an older one written by the sheikh Uthman bin Ali Zayla'i
Called Tabayin al-Haqa’iq li Sharh Kanz al-Daqa’iq
Written in early 1300s
But you'll probably cope and say Muh arab and shieet so don't count him if you don't want to
There's also other numerous books you can search about it if You're honest to yourself

Also probably majority of somali nobility could write, read and speak arabic proven by the letters they wrote in 19th century or as Early as 17th century

Somalis could read and write arabic, if siad used arabic instead of latin it would've been much better but it's already over

Examples of somali written in arabic script *far wadaad* could be
Sheekh Ibrahim Yaparow
The founder of jam'a baardheere
Wrote texts in somali language using far wadaad
Dates back to 1700s

Many were lost sadly
Another One could be the letter a man from berbera sent to his wife in Burco in 19th century?

There was also other poems written in somali language using far wadaad i can't find it for now, will post it when i get it
*there might have been much older texts that couldn't survive*

additional: ma chérie @HabarSteven12 no matter how we continue arguing you'll just point out the bad things
Majority of the world were illiterate at the time and it's true facts but you'll still cope and seethe muh 1 digit muh bad and shieet

Wallahi i believe if i was born in middle ages and wrote book
And i wrote my name "the author" being Abdullaah bin fulan al sumaale you would've said
"You incels somalis didn't write it was an arab who wrote it
Do you know what su means in arabic? Do you know what maal means in arabic? You incels"

You've questioned my existence I'm done qalas kifayya
I hope you take more larp courses

 

[HabarSteven12]

Many Somalis have traditionally learned to read, write, and recite ARABIC to learn the Quran by heart. While there isn't an exact count of how many Somalis practiced this, it's deeply rooted in Somali culture and continues to thrive. This suggests that historical Somali literacy rates might have been quite impressive.
View attachment 289119
I'm talking about nomadic communities btw not those who live in the cities
They could write and read arabic using Loox
View attachment 289140
Portrait of somalis learning Qur'an in badiyo in mid 1800s
View attachment 289120
Potrait of somalis writing Arabic on looxs in late 1800s
View attachment 289122
In 1970s the 5% who could read and write are probably those who could write Somali language and read it using osmaniya or far wadaad
Not including those who could read and write in the sense of reading and writing what you hear

You can today go to a random village in somalia and see how the children can read and write arabic
Me myself who was raised in a tuulo
I've learnt how to read, write and speak arabic using Loox.

There's many examples of Somali written books before modern history like the books of sheikh Uways al qadiri
Or the oldest surviving one being the book of Muḥammad ibn Muʾmin ibn Ādam ibn ʿUthmān ibn ʻAlī al-Laylkasī
There's actually an older one written by the sheikh Uthman bin Ali Zayla'i
Called Tabayin al-Haqa’iq li Sharh Kanz al-Daqa’iq
Written in early 1300s
But you'll probably cope and say Muh arab and shieet so don't count him if you don't want to
There's also other numerous books you can search about it if You're honest to yourself

Also probably majority of somali nobility could write, read and speak arabic proven by the letters they wrote in 19th century or as Early as 17th century

Somalis could read and write arabic, if siad used arabic instead of latin it would've been much better but it's already over

Examples of somali written in arabic script *far wadaad* could be
Sheekh Ibrahim Yaparow
The founder of jam'a baardheere
Wrote texts in somali language using far wadaad
Dates back to 1700sView attachment 289128
Many were lost sadly
Another One could be the letter a man from berbera sent to his wife in Burco in 19th century?
View attachment 289129
There was also other poems written in somali language using far wadaad i can't find it for now, will post it when i get it
*there might have been much older texts that couldn't survive*

additional: ma chérie @HabarSteven12 no matter how we continue arguing you'll just point out the bad things
Majority of the world were illiterate at the time and it's true facts but you'll still cope and seethe muh 1 digit muh bad and shieet

Wallahi i believe if i was born in middle ages and wrote book
And i wrote my name "the author" being Abdullaah bin fulan al sumaale you would've said
"You incels somalis didn't write it was an arab who wrote it
Do you know what su means in arabic? Do you know what maal means in arabic? You incels" View attachment 289130
You've questioned my existence I'm done qalas kifayya
I hope you take more larp courses
View attachment 289138

Your first statement is absolutely ridiculous. You just assumed the Somali literacy rate may have been quite impressive because they knew how to read and write the Quran. Once again, there are no historical records of Somalis writing the Quran in the medieval or pre-colonial period. Nomads were taught how to write the Quran in Arabic by Somali scholars who studied in Egypt and Saudi Arabia during Said Barres' mass literacy campaign in 1974. No academic and historical record of Somalis writing the Quran in Arabic. Most Somali nomads were taught how to write in the Loox by religious scholars who studied and trained in Arabia. You are trying to make it appear like the Quran writings on the wooden tablets(Loox) happened prior to the 19th century. You literally decontextualized the Quran writings on the wooden tablets.

All the scholars you have mentioned were Arabs.
Sheikh Uways al qadiri was from Barawa. He wasn't a Somali Nomad. Muḥammad ibn Muʾmin ibn Ādam ibn ʿUthmān ibn ʻAlī was an Arab. Uthman bin Ali Zayla' was an Arab. Baardhere was founded by a group of religious scholars from Barawa. Prior to the arrival of these scholars, the town was completely uninhabited. Nomads began to move into Baardhere and the religious scholars of barawa taught them how to read and write.

The word "probably" doesn't amount to an established fact. You said the majority of the Somali nobility could write, read and speak Arabic, proven by the letters they wrote in the 19th century or as early as the 17th century. Somalia never had a strong written-based tradition. Your strongest evidence is Sheekh Ibrahim Yaparow and a random letter in Berbera without contextualizing the letter. You keep saying "maybe" or "probably" or "most likely". You keep adding your own interpretation. To say the majority of Somalis have been literate since the 17th or 19th century is a blatant disregard for historical and intellectual accuracy. Most Somalis were illiterate.

 

[Somali_patriotic]

Your first statement is absolutely ridiculous. You just assumed the Somali literacy rate may have been quite impressive because they knew how to read and write the Quran. Once again, there are no historical records of Somalis writing the Quran in the medieval or pre-colonial period. Nomads were taught how to write the Quran in Arabic by Somali scholars who studied in Egypt and Saudi Arabia during Said Barres' mass literacy campaign in 1974. No academic and historical record of Somalis writing the Quran in Arabic. Most Somali nomads were taught how to write in the Loox by religious scholars who studied and trained in Arabia. You are trying to make it appear like the Quran writings on the wooden tablets(Loox) happened prior to the 19th century. You literally decontextualized the Quran writings on the wooden tablets.

All the scholars you have mentioned were Arabs.
Sheikh Uways al qadiri was from Barawa. He wasn't a Somali Nomad. Muḥammad ibn Muʾmin ibn Ādam ibn ʿUthmān ibn ʻAlī was an Arab. Uthman bin Ali Zayla' was an Arab. Baardhere was founded by a group of religious scholars from Barawa. Prior to the arrival of these scholars, the town was completely uninhabited. Nomads began to move into Baardhere and the religious scholars of barawa taught them how to read and write.

The word "probably" doesn't amount to an established fact. You said the majority of the Somali nobility could write, read and speak Arabic, proven by the letters they wrote in the 19th century or as early as the 17th century. Somalia never had a strong written-based tradition. Your strongest evidence is Sheekh Ibrahim Yaparow and a random letter in Berbera without contextualizing the letter. You keep saying "maybe" or "probably" or "most likely". You keep adding your own interpretation. To say the majority of Somalis have been literate since the 17th or 19th century is a blatant disregard for historical and intellectual accuracy. Most Somalis were illiterate.

"no no no muh arab somali nomad and shieet"

You're a one close minded bastard
engaging with you will make me lose braincells

 

[HabarSteven12]

Where is your sources that Zeila was estabilished by arabs and that Hararis had a strong presence? Its very cringe pretending to be Somali to disclaim our history and heritage, you need to stick with your Aksumit kingdom, you sound like one of those Afrocentric that claim to be Ancient Egyptian. Your agenda was clear when you said "Somalis were forced by Hararis to fight against the christian Ethiopian" but you failed to provide evidence, you said that somalis were enslaved by Ethosemetic speakers, we are cowards and now we are illiterate while also claiming to be Habar Gedir from Cayr sub clan, you make claims without backing your statement, where are your sources?

I will give you the sources again. You are struggling to comprehend complex academic literature. Discrediting people's roots makes you look immature and insecure. It shows you don't have the intellectual maturity or ability to actually critically engage or refute people's arguments. Learn how to take constructive criticism in a dignified manner. I am always open to being corrected if I am proven wrong. Stop misconstruing my statements. I don't hate Somalis. I am just refuting the nonsense and intellectual dishonesty they are peddling. Take a look at the sources below. I have been to Xamar numerous times. Ilaahay baan ku dhaartaye.

Hararis did have a strong presence in the Adal Sultanate. Arab Faqih states, "Ethio-Semitic speakers formed the dominant section of the Adal population. There is no mention of Somalis ruling Zeila in any academic source.

"Arabs were the most numerous. They built the towns of Zeila and Berbera in the north and Mogadiscio, Brava, and Merca in the south." Numerous academic sources allude to Arabs establishing the coastal towns of the Red Sea and Indian Ocean in modern-day Somalia. All the coastal towns were classified as Arab settlements.

"Pre-Islamic Arabs and Persians
founded trading enterprises at Zeila on the Gulf of Aden and Mogadishu on the east
coast. In the seventh century, Islamized Arabs strengthened these trading centers and introduced Islam to Somalia." (Mary arnold)

Scholar David Hamilton asserts "that from time immemorial, the coastal towns along the northern Somali shores have been politically subject to the Arabian states."

Scholar EHM Clifford states, "An Arab sultante with its capital in Zeila was founded by emigrants from Yemen in the 7th century AD. By the 13th century, it had become powerful as the empire of Adal. This is in the book: the British, Somaliland, and Ethiopia boundary.

 

[HabarSteven12]

"no no no muh arab somali nomad and shieet"
View attachment 289157
You're a one close minded bastard
engaging with you will make me lose braincells

I think you Bari are the same person. You Incels run numerous burner accounts lol.

 

[HabarSteven12]

"no no no muh arab somali nomad and shieet"
View attachment 289157
You're a one close minded bastard
engaging with you will make me lose braincells

But you don't have braincells. To be honest there's nothing for you to loose. I think your mom dropped you in your tuulo.