Disgusting tradition [Mag]

[rin]

What is wrong about this? Somalia has a low crime rate despite the civil war because everyone’s clansmen and women are on the hook for their fuckups. Mentally colonized diaspora see a different way of doing stuff and assume it’s inferior

you don't see a problem with rapists and murderers getting off scot-free just because they paid a fee? no wonder Somalia is in the state it's in with people like you.

 

[gasara]

you don't see a problem with rapists and murderers getting off scot-free just because they paid a fee? no wonder Somalia is in the state it's in with people like you.

Rapists always get away scot-free though. If you have the means to get away with crimes you can get away with it. That’s the rule of law everywhere. Make sure you’re from the dominant society or have money. Not one group of people have eradicated this concept. My opinion though is that murders/rapists deserve hard labour or death but I’m no leader.

 

[Burqad]

you don't see a problem with rapists and murderers getting off scot-free just because they paid a fee? no wonder Somalia is in the state it's in with people like you.

No rapists and murderer get mag, they get the death penalty. Mag is for manslaughter like car accidents or bodily harm (like cutting off a finger).

 

[Leila]

There is nothing backward about it or tribalistic , paying compensation fees for harm caused is called ''restorative justice''. Context is omitted in that post, its totally optional , for the family or those harmed can call for punitive punishment and not take that route.

It's not one tribe killing another, that list shows it's extended family members chipping in to cover the cost of fines/compensation being payed. The price is hefty because its meant deter people from committing offenses

I covered this kinda in another thread


There are several cases where families even order firing squads for murderers or killers etc in public areas today. In pre-colonial times they used to chop the head off murderers in public market places. But people most of the time preferred the restorative route (fines and confiscations), as it was very effective in deterring people. As a result in many places in Somalia crime and violence was relatively uncommon.

For me i don't really fully support either, i think they need to strike balance between punitive and restorative justice. That's the best method of handing out justice, with the emphasis of your liberties taken away, restitution and rehabilitation.

What happens when the victim comes from a minority clan for example a Madhiban. Would they receive compensation the way someone from a majority dominant clan would?

 

[Devilsadvocate]

No rapists and murderer get mag, they get the death penalty. Mag is for manslaughter like car accidents or bodily harm (like cutting off a finger).

That’s great in theory, but it rarely happens in Somalia. R*pists are often paid off, or they are rewarded with the victim as a wife. That’s why women have turned to complaining on dahir calasows tiktok “court” for justice. Even in one of the most viral cases, Luul still hasn’t received justice.

 

[Aurelian]

No one pays mag for first degree murder.

They pay, you can see landheeres forcing the more langaab clan or branch of the clan to accept the mag.

 

[Aurelian]

No rapists and murderer get mag, they get the death penalty. Mag is for manslaughter like car accidents or bodily harm (like cutting off a finger).

You seem to live in a different reality or in a bubble.

 

[Idilinaa]

Lets get one thing straighten out first , Somali society or Somalia does not have tribes or tribal identities.

Clans are extended family units, and family lineages, that are connected to other family units and lineages. People have cousins, half siblings , parents , uncles/aunties, grand parents from a different clan. You can even be from the same clan and be more related another person from another sub clan. That's how the constant intermingling distorts it.

There are not separated cultural or tribal identities. They don't contain cultural differences, nor do they in reality represent politics either, at least traditionally speaking. It's something that binded Somalis together and ensured resource sharing and cooperation.

Clans Are a System of Cooperation, Not Division

It's completely misleading whenever there is competition, conflict or disagrements to render it into a clan thing. When the same is never applied to other countries and communities

When Europeans or other countries have political disputes, it’s framed as ideological, economic, or political competition, not “tribalism.” How come Somalis cannot see things in the same way.

What happens when the victim comes from a minority clan for example a Madhiban. Would they receive compensation the way someone from a majority dominant clan would?

Yes.

Madhibaan is an umbrella occupational name, the clans that make them descend from the dominant clans you speak of, Musa Dhirye for example is a Hawiye clan.

They are are protected and sponsored by the same clans and receive compensation.

clan elders actively benefit of the current state of the country i dont see why they would take action to limit their own political power. and the usaid is coming to an end in somalia thankfully and our idiotic goverment will be starved of funds if it doesnt act quickly.

If they benefited from the government why does 90% of things operate outside government control in southern somalia.

Everything is built , funded and supported by a large private sector and most of Somalia's economy is informal. Even the roads and schools and infrastructure is funded by the private sector.

Elders, civic society leaders , businessmen and Somali people in general have to maneuver around the foreign installed government that in no way shape or form represent them, or their culture

And people receive justice, the fines are punishments and that hold people to account. They don't get payed a fee or get off scott free and its the family & the individuals affected that can demand this or more severe punishment.

 

[Devilsadvocate]

Lets get one thing straighten out first , Somali society or Somalia does not have tribes or tribal identities.

Clans are extended family units, and family lineages, that are connected to other family units and lineages. People have cousins, half siblings , parents , uncles/aunties, grand parents from a different clan. You can even be from the same clan and be more related another person from another sub clan. That's how the constant intermingling distorts it.

There are not separated cultural or tribal identities. They don't contain cultural differences, nor do they in reality represent politics either, at least traditionally speaking. It's something that binded Somalis together and ensured resource sharing and cooperation.

Clans Are a System of Cooperation, Not Division

It's completely misleading whenever there is competition, conflict or disagrements to render it into a clan thing. When the same is never applied to other countries and communities

When Europeans or other countries have political disputes, it’s framed as ideological, economic, or political competition, not “tribalism.” How come Somalis cannot see things in the same way.


Yes.

Madhibaan is an umbrella occupational name, the clans that make them descend from the dominant clans you speak of, Musa Dhirye for example is a Hawiye clan.

They are are protected and sponsored by the same clans and receive compensation.



If they benefited from the government why does 90% of things operate outside government control in southern somalia.

Everything is built , funded and supported by a large private sector and most of Somalia's economy is informal. Even the roads and schools and infrastructure is funded by the private sector.

Elders, civic society leaders , businessmen and Somali people in general have to maneuver around the foreign installed government that in no way shape or form represent them, or their culture

And people receive justice, the fines are punishments and that hold people to account. They don't get payed a fee or get off scott free and its the family & the individuals affected that can demand this or more severe punishment.

I’m pretty sure gabooye is the umbrella name, and madhibaan, tumaal and muse dhariyo etc are apart of this union. It’s madhibaan that are maxamed gorgaate hawiye not muse dhariyo.

 

[Idilinaa]

I’m pretty sure gabooye is the umbrella name, and madhibaan, tumaal and muse dhariyo etc are apart of this union. It’s madhibaan that are maxamed gorgaate hawiye not muse dhariyo.

Sorry i meant Midgan, Madhibaan is a clan name.

Tumaal, Midgan and Yibir are umbrella occupational names there are many clans that fall under these names scattered around.

Covered in another thread:

The sab live scatttered all over Northern Somaliland in real or putative patrilineages on a pattern similar, though reduced, to those of their Somali (Ajji) protectors. In different regions they are known locally by the names of the eponyms of the small agnatic lineage groups into which they are divided, rather than their occupational classification as Midgan, Tumaal and Yibir. Ultimitely, however iti is as these and, collectively, as sab, that they are described. In the north the two largest Midgaan lineage groups are the Muuse Diiriye in the west and Midhiban in the east.

 

[Burqad]

What happens when the victim comes from a minority clan for example a Madhiban. Would they receive compensation the way someone from a majority dominant clan would?

Idilna answered it better than I could upthread

That’s great in theory, but it rarely happens in Somalia. R*pists are often paid off, or they are rewarded with the victim as a wife. That’s why women have turned to complaining on dahir calasows tiktok “court” for justice. Even in one of the most viral cases, Luul still hasn’t received justice.

Ideal doesn’t mean it always happens. That is the idea behind mag, but Somalia is a state that is filled with corruption.

You seem to live in a different reality or in a bubble.

I’m talking about how it should be and how it is meant to be.