Do Somalis even deserve to have a state or country?

[Prince of Lasanod]

http://scholarworks.wmich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1123&context=africancenter_icad_archive

The reason why NFD and Ogaden is not part of Somalia is not because the colonials were unjust and wanted to help Christians. It's because Somalis did not have a real state at that time. Yes the region was inhabited by Somalis but there were no real settlements, we were simply Geeljires who wondered the land. How can you build a state when 90 % of the population are not even settled in one place but simply looked for grazing land? On the other hand, the Habeshas were farmers and had a central state that ruled over all of their regions for centuries. When they were arguing whether our "region" should be given to Ethiopia or Kenya, who was there to fight for Somalis case? No one.

Somalis have one more chance and if we fail again, then our land will be divided between Habeshas and Kenyans. The paper above that I posted suggests we should be governed by Ethiopia. We have an enemy who denies our right to have a state and they have a point. Why should we? We are one ethnic group and look how divided we are.

Those who live in Somaliland are Somalis are they not? So even if the President, the PM and all ministers are Isaaq then why should it matter as long as they are competent and do their job? We need to bring Somaliland into the fold and whatever they want, we should give it to them. If they want either President or PM and the capital city then we should give it to them. If they want to be an autonomous region and not part of federalism we should give it to them. Why? Not because they deserve it, but because if we cannot compromise then we will be ruled by Christian Habeshas. It's that simple.

We cannot rule a country based on qabiil. Siad Barre had the biggest chance to fix this when he ruled from Ras Kamboni to Saylac. He failed horribly and instead, he exploited it.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

If you want to help Somalia, DON'T open these useless hotels or restaurants.

Turn the fucking population from Geeljires into Agro pastoralists. The most civilized and successful people that live in Somaliweyn are the Bantus, D&M and the minorities. We need to turn the khaat chewing, arrogant, lazy and unproductive Somalis into these people.

 

[$$$$]

It was a part of the colonial legacy of the British. They ruined the borders of every people they subjugated. Take Afghanistan for instance, the largest ethnic (Pashtun) has most of their population living in neighbouring Pakistan. I am sure they were trying to ensure that there ex colonies would have a history recurring conflict.

Don't Gee up the Xabashis. There was nothing impressive about them. They have never been able to capture Somali terrority by force, and they have always been nannied by foreigners. The Portugese saved them from the Adalites (who were very few lol), the British gave them Ogaden for their efforts against the Dervishes, and the Soviets saved Ethiopia (supposed Lion of Africa) from little Somalia during the Ogaden War.

Plus Somalia has had numerous city states over their history (Adal, MJ, Warsangeli, Hobyo, and Ajuuran). I am disappointed that you would post something like saxib. I thought you were knowledgable in Somali and Ethiopian history.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

Don't Gee up the Xabashis. There was nothing impressive about them. They have never been able to capture Somali terrority by force, and they have always been nannied by foreigners. The Portugese saved them from the Adalites (who were very few lol), the British gave them Ogaden for their efforts against the Dervishes, and the Soviets saved Ethiopia (supposed Lion of Africa) from little Somalia during the Ogaden War.

I've never said that the Xabashis were impressive people. They weren't. But they are more successful than the Somali ethnic group simply because they are farmers and we are nomads. That's the sole reason why the NFD, Ogaden doesn't belong to Somalia and the reason why we are the most failed state. Until you accept this, then no progress can be made. 99 % of Somalis wondered the land looking for grazing land, therefore we had no civilization because we didn't have a settled population. I am being harsh because it's the truth and I want my grandchildren to have a country.

 

[$$$$]

I've never said that the Xabashis were impressive people. They weren't. But they are more successful than the Somali ethnic group simply because they are farmers and we are nomads. That's the sole reason why the NFD, Ogaden doesn't belong to Somalia and the reason why we are the most failed state. Until you accept this, then no progress can be made.

Ancient Somalis did trade with the Indians and Chinese etc. The Dervishes humiliated the Europeans two entire decades, and the MJ sultanate humiliated the Italians when they tried beat them after besting the Dervishes. The Warsangelis did the same too. The Ajuuran was the ONLY hydraulic power in Africa in the 15th century. The Adal empire which was encircled by the Ethiopians, and outnumbered many fold crushed the Ethiopians. They even moved the capital of their new muslim empire deep into the historic Christian Ethiopian Kingdom. An incredible humiliation on the Ethiopians.

These Ethiopian peasants were never better than us historically. And their argro peasant lifestyle hasn't help them, or allowed them to best us in anyway. Today they are better than us, but only because of our hopelessness and because of the incredible foreign help they receive. They get free money, weapons and training to occupy Somalia for instance. They are still nannied by foreigners to this very day.

I only agree with the part about the NFD and the Ogaden not being in Somali hands because of our failed state status, rather our 'fragile state' status. You have dropped the ball with the rest of your post.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

Ancient Somalis did trade with the Indians and Chinese etc. The Dervishes humiliated the Europeans two entire decades, and the MJ sultanate humiliated the Italians when they tried beat them after besting the Dervishes. The Warsangelis did the same too. The Ajuuran was the ONLY hydraulic power in Africa in the 15th century. The Adal empire which was encircled by the Ethiopians, and outnumbered many fold crushed the Ethiopians. They even moved the capital of their new muslim empire deep into the historic Christian Ethiopian Kingdom. An incredible humiliation on the Ethiopians.

These Ethiopian peasants were never better than us historically. And their argro peasant lifestyle hasn't help them, or allowed them to best us in anyway. Today they are better than us, but only because of our hopelessness and because of the incredible foreign help they receive. They get free money, weapons and training to occupy Somalia for instance. They are still nannied by foreigners to this very day.

I only agree with the part about the NFD and the Ogaden not being in Somali hands because of our failed state status, rather our 'fragile state' status. You have dropped the ball with the rest of your post.

When the British came to Somalia, 90 % of the population were nomads. There was no real civilization. Thats why NFD and Ogaden are not in Somali hands.

I don't know what happened, allahu A'lam. I believe that Somalis used to have an ancient civilization(700 years ago) but perhaps due to climate change that destroyed cities, we became Geeljires and abandoned trade. There was an ancient civilization between Berbera to Jigiga found by archaeologists. Harar which we ruled also used to have a population of 50,000 at the time of the Adal, which is incredible. The Somali ethnic group used to be all farmers.

 

[$$$$]

When the British came to Somalia, 90 % of the population were nomads. There was no real civilization. Thats why NFD and Ogaden are not in Somali hands.

I don't know what happened, allahu A'lam. I believe that Somalis used to have an ancient civilization but perhaps due to climate change that destroyed cities, we became Geeljires. There was an ancient civilization between Berbera to Jigiga found by archaeologists. Harar which we ruled also used to have a population of 50,000 at the time of the Adal, which is incredible. We must have all been farmers.

There was nothing wrong with the nomadic lifestyle 100 years ago. The only problem with the nomadic lifestyle is that we live in a modern world today, it should be obsolete.

I am proud of our nomadic lifestyle, and I believe it has done us great good. It is what made the Somali resilient, strong and proud people. Our fathers didn't accept subjugation from anyone, and put up a stiff resistance against these Gaalos. We fought the Gaala hundreds of years ago during their expansions, and more recently the colonialists when they came. I bet an agro lifestyle would have turned us into a docile people like the Indians, who despite their incredible numbers were colonised for an incredible 300 years.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

There was nothing wrong with the nomadic lifestyle 100 years ago. The only problem with the nomadic lifestyle is that we live in a modern world today, it should be obsolete.

I am proud of our nomadic lifestyle, and I believe it has done us great good. It is what made the Somali resilient, strong and proud people. Our fathers didn't accept subjugation from anyone, and put up a stiff resistance against these Gaalos. We fought the Gaala hundreds of years ago during their expansions, and more recently the colonialists when they came. I bet an agro lifestyle would have turned us into a docile people like the Indians, who despite their incredible numbers were colonised for an incredible 300 years.

The Tauregs had extensive cultivated land and kingdoms but between the 14th to the 16th century most of these settlement collapsed and the Tauregs become predominately nomadic. Throughout Somaliland, Eastern Ethiopia and Djibouti there are so many ancient ruins which shows that a great civilization once lied between here. In Western Somaliland, people only started farming around 100-150 years ago, but there is proof that Gabiley for example was used as an agricultural region many centuries before that. Traces of very old coffee, beans and grains were found there.

All of this shows that the Somali ethnic group had a great civilization built on agriculture, farming and trade which they abandoned for camel herding. Your ancestors 500 years ago were probably farmers or urban dwellers that were forced into becoming geeljires for reasons we are yet to find out. So why be proud about your ancestors abandoning civilization? You do know that Oromos used to live in Jubbaland and Somaliland before we pushed them back only 200 years ago? So it could have been these fuckers that ruined it for us.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

@jugjugwacwac

 

[Steamdevolopment]

Answer: No, we are not a united people but 200 different clans looking out for our own short-term interests.

However, we won't let someone else take control, only we can ruin or salvage the Somali country

 

[SultanuuFicaan]

Somalis unfortunately do not have a long history of centralised authority similar to China, Abyssinia, India, Iran and Egypt for example. There has also never been a unified Somali state as far as we know in history, during the medieval period you had the AJuuran kingdom (Mogadishu sultanate as a vassal state) in the south and the Cadal empire in the north, these three played a key role in shaping our role in the world. Sadly the Portuguese invaders sacked Barawe and Saylac damaging our trade, they also luckily failed to invade Mogadishu but we haven't been able to cover that much.


Remember the Mongols were nomadic and they managed to control pretty much most of the 'known' (Americas were not known to the people) world. Timurid (Tamerlane) dynasty was also a nomadic empire.

The Somalis are naturally hardcore republican anarchists (read Burton's accounts) who especially of recent have even forgotten the simpleness of 'somalinimo' They get irritated one a person is rewarded a post even though he may be highly qualified or is highly qualified, people will dislike him due to his clan, which is simply backward thinking. Clans are a social construct and obviously came about during the rise of islam.

Had we been farmers or at-least part agropastoralists and nomads, the Somalis should've settled in the Ethiopian highlands once Mujahid Gurey aun conquered Amhara/Tigray province.

The day Somalis remove Qabyalaad is the day they can finally join the 21st century, at this moment of time with widespread corruption, desertification, ocean being plundered and toxic, river sources being dammed by injirely, widespread droughts/famine and the lack of food sufficiency in this day and age, alshabab, mooriyan thugs across 'Greater Somalia' (isbaaro throughout somalia/NFD/K5 region), lack of islam (we have forgotten basic teachings when it comes to respect) and wadaniimo, etc..

You three posters above me if you truly cared about your people you would immediately discard Qabyalaad, until you three can discard it, do not lecture others the injustices created by Qabyalaad and it's current lasting problems due to it.

Somalia as we know is merely an African Union/NGO colony if I must be honest.

 

[Steamdevolopment]

Somalis unfortunately do not have a long history of centralised authority similar to China, Abyssinia, India, Iran and Egypt for example. There has also never been a unified Somali state as far as we know in history, during the medieval period you had the AJuuran kingdom (Mogadishu sultanate as a vassal state) in the south and the Cadal empire in the north, these three played a key role in shaping our role in the world. Sadly the Portuguese invaders sacked Barawe and Saylac damaging our trade, they also luckily failed to invade Mogadishu but we haven't been able to cover that much.


Remember the Mongols were nomadic and they managed to control pretty much most of the 'known' (Americas were not known to the people) world. Timurid (Tamerlane) dynasty was also a nomadic empire.

The Somalis are naturally hardcore republican anarchists (read Burton's accounts) who especially of recent have even forgotten the simpleness of 'somalinimo' They get irritated one a person is rewarded a post even though he may be highly qualified or is highly qualified, people will dislike him due to his clan, which is simply backward thinking. Clans are a social construct and obviously came about during the rise of islam.

Had we been farmers or at-least part agropastoralists and nomads, the Somalis should've settled in the Ethiopian highlands once Mujahid Gurey aun conquered Amhara/Tigray province.

The day Somalis remove Qabyalaad is the day they can finally join the 21st century, at this moment of time with widespread corruption, desertification, ocean being plundered and toxic, river sources being dammed by injirely, widespread droughts/famine and the lack of food sufficiency in this day and age, alshabab, mooriyan thugs across 'Greater Somalia' (isbaaro throughout somalia/NFD/K5 region), lack of islam (we have forgotten basic teachings when it comes to respect) and wadaniimo, etc..

You three posters above me if you truly cared about your people you would immediately discard Qabyalaad, until you three can discard it, do not lecture others the injustices created by Qabyalaad and it's current lasting problems due to it.

Somalia as we know is merely an African Union/NGO colony if I must be honest.

How can you accuse of me of Qabyalaad. Don't confuse political disagreement with Qabyalaad

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

Somalis unfortunately do not have a long history of centralised authority similar to China, Abyssinia, India, Iran and Egypt for example. There has also never been a unified Somali state as far as we know in history, during the medieval period you had the AJuuran kingdom (Mogadishu sultanate as a vassal state) in the south and the Cadal empire in the north, these three played a key role in shaping our role in the world. Sadly the Portuguese invaders sacked Barawe and Saylac damaging our trade, they also luckily failed to invade Mogadishu but we haven't been able to cover that much.

Had we been farmers or at-least part agropastoralists and nomads, the Somalis should've settled in the Ethiopian highlands once Mujahid Gurey aun conquered Amhara/Tigray province.

Who is to say that Somalis were not agropastoralists or farmers? We probably were, but due to climate change and/or war, we abandoned it. There are many ethnic groups who abandoned civilization in favour of camel herding due to climate change, diseases or war. And we were most likely one of them. Most of Somaliland and Eastern Ethiopia was once ruled by great Muslim empires, and a wall had to be built in Harar to stop the Oromo invasion. Even most of Eastern Oroma belonged to Somalis. The Jubbaland was once ruled by the Ajuurans, and just 150-200 years ago we drove the Oromos out of Jubbaland. We became nomads because we were forced to.

Check this out, the Berbers were once farmers themselves: http://archive.archaeology.org/0403/abstracts/sands.html

Why did we abandon farming in the Jubbaland until we brought in Bantus who reintroduced it? The Oromos were wiped out of Jubbaland due to diseases and the Darood, and Somalis were probably wiped out for some reason we don't know yet. It could even be that Somali clans were formed AFTER we were forced to become nomads. A great drought killing thousands, or a great flood? The people who survived then maybe forming clans and becoming camel herders?

 

[iui]

I would be happy if ethiopia or kenya want to annex somalia . just for peace .
2 decades of wars is enough .

 

[Steamdevolopment]

I would be happy if ethiopia or kenya want to annex somalia . just for peace .
2 decades of wars is enough .

What kind of useless Somali would let us be even more subjected to Ehtiopian interests than we already are?

 

[fox]

http://scholarworks.wmich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1123&context=africancenter_icad_archive

The reason why NFD and Ogaden is not part of Somalia is not because the colonials were unjust and wanted to help Christians. It's because Somalis did not have a real state at that time. Yes the region was inhabited by Somalis but there were no real settlements, we were simply Geeljires who wondered the land. How can you build a state when 90 % of the population are not even settled in one place but simply looked for grazing land? On the other hand, the Habeshas were farmers and had a central state that ruled over all of their regions for centuries. When they were arguing whether our "region" should be given to Ethiopia or Kenya, who was there to fight for Somalis case? No one.

Somalis have one more chance and if we fail again, then our land will be divided between Habeshas and Kenyans. The paper above that I posted suggests we should be governed by Ethiopia. We have an enemy who denies our right to have a state and they have a point. Why should we? We are one ethnic group and look how divided we are.

Those who live in Somaliland are Somalis are they not? So even if the President, the PM and all ministers are Isaaq then why should it matter as long as they are competent and do their job? We need to bring Somaliland into the fold and whatever they want, we should give it to them. If they want either President or PM and the capital city then we should give it to them. If they want to be an autonomous region and not part of federalism we should give it to them. Why? Not because they deserve it, but because if we cannot compromise then we will be ruled by Christian Habeshas. It's that simple.

We cannot rule a country based on qabiil. Siad Barre had the biggest chance to fix this when he ruled from Ras Kamboni to Saylac. He failed horribly and instead, he exploited it.

Bro you've spoken the haqq. We need to kill qabyaalad or we will never move forward. Khaatumo is having peace talks with sland, may Pland,somalia and jubbaland follow. This mamul goboleed thing has to be killed aswell.

 

[iui]

What kind of useless Somali would let us be even more subjected to Ehtiopian interests than we already are?

Are you expecting somalia to become a utopia with in 10 years , 20 years 30 years ?

 

[Steamdevolopment]

Me and

Are you expecting somalia to become a utopia with in 10 years , 20 years 30 years ?

No, but it won't be an utopia either with Kenyan or Ethiopian control as both will use the natural resources found in the land and neglect the people as we see in the other occupied terrorties.

 

[iui]

No, but it won't be an utopia either with Kenyan or Ethiopian control as both will use the natural resources found in the land and neglect the people as we see in the other occupied terrorties.

Thats where you can negotiate for free health care free education no taxes social welfare etc.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

I would be happy if ethiopia or kenya want to annex somalia . just for peace .
2 decades of wars is enough .

If Ethiopia is using poverty in Ogaden as a weapon against innocent Somalis and is burning down our villages, what makes you think we would have peace? It would be even more violent and Al Shabab will be the one who will gain the most from it.