do u want Allah's to govern somalis or do you want western law?

[Arman]

If most Somalis want to reject nationalism/Somalinimo then i genuinely don't know what ideology will fix Somalia.

A liberal form of Islam which encourages extreme nationalism.

 

[government]

Because there is no evidence ever present to corroborate such claims. Muslims are never going to accept that someone human has actually managed to recreate the supposed "miraculous beauty" of the Quran. It would be blasphemy and worthy of death as you'd become an apostate.

Also Al marri is more like quraish poems than it's to quran

 

[DeathWish]

Nothing miraculous about the Quran. Its short form of poetry and once the rhyme and alliteration gets to hard to continue Mohammed abruptly insert such phrases " ina alla qafuur raxiim..ina alaa caziiz un this and that.." to hide away its failure to keep up the poetic rhyme.

Many great poet imitated the Quraan line by line and produced greater and better form of it , Al Macari and Al Mutanabi and Ibn Mukafac the Persian to mention few.

You are pathetic! If there is one thing you can't criticize about the Qur'an, that is its poetry. Many Arabs tried to create better versions of it and failed.
The shortest chapter in the Quran (3 verses and 10 words) has 20+ rhetorical devices, Instead of talking without thinking, you should read.
http://www.hamzatzortzis.com/essays-articles/exploring-the-quran/the-inimitable-quran/
https://d1.islamhouse.com/data/en/i..._the_linguistic_miracle_linguisticmiracle.pdf

 

[The_Cosmos]

You obviously didn't read their work when somebody is talking about the elephants tail and his trunk with tons of mistakes I consider that a failure

And who judged this supposed failure? The thing about this is that it's not impartial. Muslims will never accept that the challenge is met is because in doing so it's an act of blasphemy which renders one an apostate. So tell me, where is the impartial report calling this out as failures?

 

[government]

And who judged this supposed failure? The thing about this is that it's not impartial. Muslims will never accept that the challenge is met is because in doing so it's an act of blasphemy which renders one an apostate. So tell me, where is the impartial report calling this out as failures?

Again you are defending something you didn't even read. Come back to me after 3 years when you learn Arabic and tell me why it has successfully challenged the Quran then we would have this debate

 

[The_Cosmos]

Also Al marri is more like quraish poems than it's to quran

Reality is the challenge itself is bogus. Those who meet the challenge will instantly be dismissed by Muslims, hardly impartial, who will never admit it if the Quran was actually equaled or even superseded in poetic language.

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

A liberal form os Islam which encourages extreme nationalism.

Insha'allah we'll see a right-wing Nationalist Somali state in our lifetime.

 

[The_Cosmos]

Again you are defending something you didn't even read. Come back to me after 3 years when you learn Arabic and tell me why it has successfully challenged the Quran then we would have this debate

That's a cop out, I don't need to learn the Quran or its language to actually consider the works of others and dismiss it as not being miraculous.

If people have to learn Arabic language to understand what is supposed to be for all of humanity, then the Quran has failed in being clear.

 

[DeathWish]

A liberal form of Islam which encourages extreme nationalism.

Extreme nationalism is the worst type of nationalism. That is what brought the Nazis, Young Turks, and Communist Russia into this world.
Islam allows nationalism but prohibits extreme nationalism for a reason.

 

[government]

That's a cop out, I don't need to learn the Quran or its language to actually consider the works of others and dismiss it as not being miraculous.

If people have to learn Arabic language to understand what is supposed to be fit all of humanity, then the Quran has failed in being clear.

No it's not a cop out you can understand the Quran just fine in English but if you want to compare it to other Arabic work you have to know the language it's not the hard to understand. It's like trying to compare two somali poems you can understand both just fine if they are translated but you can't say which one is better since you don't know the criteria that somali poems are judged with

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

When this so called "nationalism" brought the butchering of scholars, rape and massacre of innocent Somalis and giving your clan all government positions.

 

[Arman]

Extreme nationalism is the worst type of nationalism. That is what brought the Nazis, Young Turks, and Communist Russia into this world.
Islam allows nationalism but prohibits extreme nationalism for a reason.

Extreme nationalism is the only thing that will get us to the top. The Nazis managed to conquer most of Europe. The Russians managed to conquer most of Eastern Europe and Central Asia. We could perhaps get our lands back if we tried.

 

[The_Cosmos]

No it's not a cop out you can understand the Quran just fine in English but if you want to compare it to other Arabic work you have to know the language it's not the hard to understand. It's like trying to compare two somali poems you can understand both just fine if they are translated but you can't say which one is better since you don't know the criteria that somali poems are judged with

Yes but there is no clear criteria on which to judge the supposed challenge of the Quran. Muslims will dismiss any challenge as failures because the alternative would imply blasphemy and apostasy. There is no impartiality, Muslims won't admit defeat even if it happened. Plus, the Quran itself has been challenged on its supposed miraculous literary brilliance. There are literally follies in the Quran pointed out by others.

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

Extreme nationalism is the only thing that will get us to the top. The Nazis managed to conquer most of Europe. The Russians managed to conquer most of Eastern Europe and Central Asia. We could perhaps get our lands back if we tried.

For that to happen, we'll need to expand our population to increase manpower; industrialise our economy & invest heavily in modernising our military. However, we need to prioritise the economy above everything else to increase our national wealth.

 

[Don]

Islamic law of course but we need a leader like sultan salahuddhin who used his power to punish the oppressors. Bring back the golden age where baghdad was the centre of knowledge

 

[X.Playa]

That's a cop out, I don't need to learn the Quran or its language to actually consider the works of others and dismiss it as not being miraculous.

If people have to learn Arabic language to understand what is supposed to be for all of humanity, then the Quran has failed in being clear.

You don't need to really but this is plane B Muslim argument that in its Arabic tongue the Quran linguistically is miraculous and perfect which is utter nonsense.

Ali Dashti the great Iranian scholars book " twenty three years ...." published after his death is enough to completely dismantle the Muslim argument.

Dashti proved the Quran is imperfect with lots of grammatical errors and even numerical errors. The most obvious is the Quran creation theory. The Quran claim Allah created the universe in 6 days then it divides what was created each day when adding all the result is 8 days not 6. Lol

I will quote the original verses and let Muslim fanatics do the tally.

 

[X.Playa]

2 Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in TWO Days
And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds.
+
He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it,
and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measured therein all things
4 to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR Days
in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance).

Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky,
and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth:
"Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly."
They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."
+
2 So He completed them as seven firmaments in TWO Days,
and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command.
And We adorned the lower heaven with lights,
and (provided it) with guard.
Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.
-- Sura 41:9-12 (Yusuf Ali

 

[government]

2 Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in TWO Days
And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds.
+
He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it,
and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measured therein all things
4 to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR Days
in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance).

Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky,
and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth:
"Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly."
They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."
+
2 So He completed them as seven firmaments in TWO Days,
and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command.
And We adorned the lower heaven with lights,
and (provided it) with guard.
Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.
-- Sura 41:9-12 (Yusuf Ali

Apparently you and your Irani friend don't know how to read the Quran says that it took 4 days to complete the earth and two days to complete the skies it took 2 days and what is 2+4 ?? You are right it's 6

 

[DeathWish]

2 Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in TWO Days
And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds.
+
He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it,
and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measured therein all things
4 to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR Days
in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance).

Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky,
and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth:
"Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly."
They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."
+
2 So He completed them as seven firmaments in TWO Days,
and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command.
And We adorned the lower heaven with lights,
and (provided it) with guard.
Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.
-- Sura 41:9-12 (Yusuf Ali

 

[The_Cosmos]

But even Zakir Naik admitted that the majority of the translations use the 'thumma' to mean 'then' and not 'simultaneously'. It's clear deception to change the most accepted translations after it's proven that 'Allah' flopped basic maths.

Plus, the Quran clearly states, in that same verse, that Allah created the earth before the heavens which is a scientific inaccuracy.

Praise be to Allah.

The Holy Qur’an indicates in two places that the earth was created before the heavens. That is in the verses in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“He it is Who created for you all that is on earth. Then He Istawa (rose over) towards the heaven and made them seven heavens and He is the All-Knower of everything”

[al-Baqarah 2:29]

And:

“Say (O Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)): Do you verily disbelieve in Him Who created the earth in two Days and you set up rivals (in worship) with Him? That is the Lord of the ‘Alameen (mankind, jinns and all that exists).

He placed therein (i.e. the earth) firm mountains from above it, and He blessed it, and measured therein its sustenance (for its dwellers) in four Days equal (i.e. all these four days were equal in the length of time), for all those who ask (about its creation).

Then He Istawa (rose over) towards the heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth: ‘Come both of you willingly or unwillingly.’ They both said: ‘We come, willingly’”

[Fussilat 41:9-11].

This does not contradict the passage in Soorat an-Naazi‘aat in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Are you more difficult to create, or is the heaven that He constructed?

He raised its height, and He has equally ordered it,

Its night He covers with darkness, and its forenoon He brings out (with light).

And after that He spread the earth;

And brought forth therefrom its water and its pasture”

[an-Naazi‘aat 79:27-31].

So the earth was created first, not spread, then the heaven was created, then the earth was spread, by bringing forth water and pasture from it, i.e., trees, crops and so on.

What is meant by the words of Allah, may He be exalted, “He it is Who created for you all that is on earth” [al-Baqarah 2:239] is the earth itself, and He measured out what would be upon it of provision and other things. The word khalaqa (translated as created) here means measured. This is in accordance with the words in Soorat Fussilat: “and measured [qaddara] therein its sustenance” [Fussilat 41:10].

Al-‘Allaamah Muhammad al-Ameen ash-Shinqeeti (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

First of all, it should be understood that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allah be pleased with him) was asked about reconciling between the verse in Soorah Fussilat and the verse in an-Naazi‘aat, and he responded by saying that Allah, may He be exalted, created the earth first, before the heaven, but it was not spread. Then He rose over towards the heaven and fashioned it as seven heavens in two days, then He spread the earth after that, and placed in it mountains, rivers and so on.

So the creation of the earth itself came before the creation of the heavens, and then came the spreading of the earth with its mountains, trees and so on, after the creation of the heavens.

This is indicated by the fact that He says: “And after that He spread the earth” [an-Naazi‘aat 79:30] and He did not say that He created it. Then He explained what is meant by spreading it by saying: “And brought forth therefrom its water and its pasture” [an-Naazi‘aat 79:31]. The way in which Ibn ‘Abbaas reconciled between these two verses is clear and there is no problem with it, as may be understood from the apparent meaning of the Holy Qur’an. End quote.

Then he mentioned the verse in Soorat al-Baqarah, and explained that what is meant by creation there is measuring, or creating the earth itself.

He also mentioned another way of reconciling between the verses, which is that the verse “And after that He spread the earth” [an-Naazi‘aat 79:30] means with that, So the word ba‘d (translated here as “after”) may mean ma‘a “with”. This reconciliation may be supported by an odd mode of recitation, according to which Mujaahid recited it as wa’l-arda ma‘a dhalika dahaahaa [instead of wa’l-arda ba‘da dhalika dahaahaa]. Based on this mode of recitation, the verse in an-Naazi‘aat does not mention the order in which the heavens and the earth were created, therefore there is no contradiction between it and the verses in al-Baqarah and Fussilat.

See: Daf‘ Eehaam al-Idtiraab ‘an Aayaat al-Kitaab by al-‘Allaamah Muhammad al-Ameen ash-Shinqeeti, printed with his tafseer Adwa’ al-Bayaan (10/16-18)

And Allah knows best.