Do you guys believe in Sixir?

[government]

The problem is you're not facing the direction of the Kaaba though. North America is located on the "other side of the earth" of the earth and thus no matter where you turn, it's not in the direction of the Kaaba. Plus, even if you were to ignore that, the direction would still be towards deep space and not the Kaaba. The only way this works is if the author of the Koran viewed the works from a flat earth perspective. Directions don't curve, we thanks to gravity. Plus, same problem occurs with fasting and praying in places where the sun never sets. The Quran completely ignored them. The reason is clearly because the author thought the world to be flat.

Also, the Quran doesn't claim the earth is oval. That's an absolute lie.

So when you want to go to England for example by boat you use a compass and go east from the US or do we say that since the US is on the other side of the earth east is technically space same goes with qiblla there are many verses in the Quran the point to the earth being spherical

 

[government]

Japan is in two different directions. It would be impossible to "face" the direction of Japan since it is on the other side of this ball we call earth. Why do you keep deflecting and jumping to other things? How do you explain the verses that talk about the setting place of the earth and gog and magog? You are intellectually dishonest and will do anything to stick with your ideology.

You choose to ignore my answers in Arabic a place that is far west is called a the sun sets in same with far East that is why I recommend to people to learn Arabic and read the Quran in it you will uncover many hidden gems

 

[The_Cosmos]

So when you want to go to England for example by boat you use a compass and go east from the US or do we say that since the US is on the other side of the earth east is technically space same goes with qiblla there are many verses in the Quran the point to the earth being spherical

The problem with this is that it's essentially making false comparisons. Using a compass that points east is fine because you are already heading that way and thanks to the curvature of the earth and it's gravity, your direction will also curve with your movement. Now, comparing this to someone living in America claiming that the Kaaba is east, or west, would actually be facing into deep space because the direction of his prayer will only curve if he is heading towards the Kaaba otherwise it will face into deep space. So, if you claim that your facing England from America you're actually facing into deep space unless of course you're heading towards England by boat or whatever, which then means that the direction will curve with your movement towards England.

 

[government]

The problem with this is that it's essentially making false comparisons. Using a compass that points east is fine because you are already heading that way and thanks to the curvature of the earth and it's gravity, your direction will also curve with your movement. Now, comparing this to someone living in America claiming that the Kaaba is east, or west, would actually be facing into deep space because the direction of his prayer will only curve if he is heading towards the Kaaba otherwise it will face into deep space. So, if you claim that your facing England from America you're actually facing into deep space unless of course you're heading towards England by boat or whatever, which then means that the direction will curve with your movement towards England.

Again it's not a false equivalent since when you start your journey your essentially heading to space so when we pray we are using the initial direction in which you will head to makaa the Quran says the direction towards the holy mosque

 

[Axmed Xaji]

Here comes the problem of the translation of the Quran into English you see in Arabic a place that was far west is called the settings place of the sun that'swhy the Maghreb is called Maghreb which means the setting place of the sun and the pillars are the atmosphere they are essentially the pillars that protect us from the outer space radiations

It's not about translation. It's the general consensus of the Ulema and supported by numerous hadiths. According to the Quran and hadith, the sun has a literal setting place, a muddy spring which it goes into when it sets.

Also, can you not see that the sun doesn't 'set' in the west and that if you're in the "west", the sun also sets in the west, which is west of the far East (china, japan etc.)?

 

[The_Cosmos]

Again it's not a false equivalent since when you start your journey your essentially heading to space so when we pray we are using the initial direction in which you will head to makaa the Quran says the direction towards the holy mosque

Ok, I think you're purposely trying to just reinforce your religion in light of the clear and damning problems it creates.

It is a false equivalence because when you start your journey you are not heading for space! Gravity stops you from doing that and thus your direction will also be reconfigured according to your movement. Your direction will be facing deep space only if your stationary from American claiming to be facing towards the Kaaba. I mean, no matter what you do you'll never be facing the Kaaba. You're at the other side of the earth!

Your direction is not effected by gravity, it's effected by your movements or lack therof. Similar issues with the fasting and prayer. In northern regions of Scandinavia, the sun never sets in the summer. The Quran doesn't mention this at all because the author clearly would not have foreseen such a problem if they thought the earth is flat.

 

[government]

It's not about translation. It's the general consensus of the Ulema and supported by numerous hadiths. According to the Quran and hadith, the sun has a literal setting place, a muddy spring which it goes into when it sets.

Also, can you not see that the sun doesn't 'set' in the west and that if you're in the "west", the sun also sets in the west, which is west of the far East (china, japan etc.)?

I know the sun doesn't set in the West but it always sets in the West direction meaning that to the people in US the sun sets in the West of them same with everyone in the world the sun always sets in the direction of the West and what is the muddy spring you are talking about

 

[Axmed Xaji]

Again it's not a false equivalent since when you start your journey your essentially heading to space so when we pray we are using the initial direction in which you will head to makaa the Quran says the direction towards the holy mosque

What?! The initial direction? That's the only direction, man. You stare into open space the whole time, unless prayer is curved by gravity. Again, this wouldn't have been a problem if the earth was flat, which was the belief at the time this was written.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

I know the sun doesn't set in the West but it always sets in the West direction meaning that to the people in US the sun sets in the West of them same with everyone in the world the sun always sets in the direction of the West and what is the muddy spring you are talking about

Quran 18:86. Sahih International. "Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it [as if] setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people."

This is talking about Dul Qarnayn. He found the sun setting into a muddied spring of water in the west. That's when people told him about Yajuj Wamajuj and he built a barrier to keep them from coming out until the end of time. Please explain your way out of this one. If you are a rational human being, you would simply laugh and throw that stuff in the garbage, not try to deflect.

 

[government]

Ok, I think you're purposely trying to just reinforce your religion in light of the clear and damning problems it creates.

It is a false equivalence because when you start your journey you are not heading for space! Gravity stops you from doing that and thus your direction will also be reconfigured according to your movement. Your direction will be facing deep space only if your stationary from American claiming to be facing towards the Kaaba. I mean, no matter what you do you'll never be facing the Kaaba. You're at the other side of the earth!

Your direction is not effected by gravity, it's effected by your movements or lack therof. Similar issues with the fasting and prayer. In northern regions of Scandinavia, the sun never sets in the summer. The Quran doesn't mention this at all because the author clearly would not have foreseen such a problem if they thought the earth is flat.

Again we clearly are running in circles if a person asks what direction should I go in if I wanted to go to England without any interest in going there? I'm not an expert in Islam nor have I studied it professionally there are many people that are more qualified to answer your questions than me

 

[The_Cosmos]

Again we clearly are running in circles if a person asks what direction should I go in if I wanted to go to England without any interest in going there? I'm not an expert in Islam nor have I studied it professionally there are many people that are more qualified to answer your questions than me

It's because of your refusal to admit to logic that's creating this circular argument. Your prayer will not be curved by gravity meaning that it will just run straight into deep space. However, if I decided to go towards Mecca, the direction will curve with my movements. Also, you can just as easily move west from American and still end up in Mecca because the earth is not flat.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

Again we clearly are running in circles if a person asks what direction should I go in if I wanted to go to England without any interest in going there? I'm not an expert in Islam nor have I studied it professionally there are many people that are more qualified to answer your questions than me

So if you are uncertain about it like you just said, why are you going through hoops to defend it and deflect? Wouldn't it make sense to just find out more about the teachings of Islam instead of assuming that they must be right? What can go wrong if you just set out on a quest to find out more?

 

[government]

Quran 18:86. Sahih International. "Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it [as if] setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people."

This is talking about Dul Qarnayn. He found the sun setting into a muddied spring of water in the west. That's when people told him about Yajuj Wamajuj and he built a barrier to keep them from coming out until the end of time. Please explain your way out of this one. If you are a rational human being, you would simply laugh and throw that stuff in the garbage, not try to deflect.

By reaching the settings of the sun he reached the ocean in the far west and the sun was setting near a water that is hot maybe it's the difference in language but do you know Arabic because it's hard for me to explain Arabic concepts in English

 

[Axmed Xaji]

So if you are uncertain about it like you just said, why are you going through hoops to defend it and deflect? Wouldn't it make sense to just find out more about the teachings of Islam instead of assuming that they must be right? What can go wrong if you just set out on a quest to find out more?

By the way, I know why you won't look into it. You might not like what you find. This is a well-established concept in Islam. Apparently the shaytan is trying to weaken your faith and make you question it.

 

[government]

It's because of your refusal to admit to logic that's creating this circular argument. Your prayer will not be curved by gravity meaning that it will just run straight into deep space. However, if I decided to go towards Mecca, the direction will curve with my movements. Also, you can just as easily move west from American and still end up in Mecca because the earth is not flat.

You are using the law of physics something That doesn't have mass nor energy so of course it won't be effected by gravity but by saying that prayers go straight to space you're saying that prayers are something that travels to Mecca which is something that has never been said in the Quran

 

[government]

By the way, I know why you won't look into it. You might not like what you find. This is a well-established concept in Islam. Apparently the shaytan is trying to weaken your faith and make you question it.

I learn about Islam whenever I can

 

[The_Cosmos]

You are using the law of physics something That doesn't have mass nor energy so of course it won't be effected by gravity but by saying that prayers go straight to space you're saying that prayers are something that travels to Mecca which is something that has never been said in the Quran

Look, it's clear that you're just trying to squeeze out of a problem.

Top-left: Due to the sphericity of the earth, a prayer in any direction will point towards the sky/outer-space, not Mecca.
Top-right: People who are located on the opposite 'side' of the earth would have to pray vertically down towards the center of the earth, and would also blaspheme against Allah, because they defecate toward the direction of the Ka'aba when they answer the call of nature.
Bottom-left: If we use the traditional Muslim method of determining qiblah (i.e. a great circle) this would still be blasphemous because you would be simultaneously praying with your face and backside aimed towards the Ka'aba.
Bottom-right: There is one point on the opposite 'side' of the earth where any direction for all 360 degrees would be facing 'towards' Mecca and consequently, there would be no one direction that would be the correct one.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

By reaching the settings of the sun he reached the ocean in the far west and the sun was setting near a water that is hot maybe it's the difference in language but do you know Arabic because it's hard for me to explain Arabic concepts in English

What? He reached the ocean in the west? How is that noteworthy? If I'm standing in a desert, the sun still disappears into the horizon. Have a I reached the "setting place" of the sun? No, the verse, along with corroborating hadiths say that the sun physically sets into a muddied spring of water in the east, between two mountains. And between these two mountains is where Yajuj wama Juj are locked up. This is obviously nonsense but you will try to deflect and find alternative meanings.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

Look, it's clear that you're just trying to squeeze out of a problem.

View attachment 14705

Top-left: Due to the sphericity of the earth, a prayer in any direction will point towards the sky/outer-space, not Mecca.
Top-right: People who are located on the opposite 'side' of the earth would have to pray vertically down towards the center of the earth, and would also blaspheme against Allah, because they defecate toward the direction of the Ka'aba when they answer the call of nature.
Bottom-left: If we use the traditional Muslim method of determining qiblah (i.e. a great circle) this would still be blasphemous because you would be simultaneously praying with your face and backside aimed towards the Ka'aba.
Bottom-right: There is one point on the opposite 'side' of the earth where any direction for all 360 degrees would be facing 'towards' Mecca and consequently, there would be no one direction that would be the correct one.

The Quran says to face the direction of Mecca. In reality, you CAN'T face the direction of Mecca. That's all we're saying

 

[government]

What? He reached the ocean in the west? How is that noteworthy? If I'm standing in a desert, the sun still disappears into the horizon. Have a I reached the "setting place" of the sun? No, the verse, along with corroborating hadiths say that the sun physically sets into a muddied spring of water in the east, between two mountains. And between these two mountains is where Yajuj wama Juj are locked up. This is obviously nonsense but you will try to deflect and find alternative meanings.

Most shikh say he reached a place that the sun sets in the ocean if you're for example in Maghreb and you kept following the horizon you will reach the beach and the ocean and nobody says that the sun physically melted with the sun