The alchemist
VIP
Murtad, I am like you. We are not like you.
Does Islam Like Black People?
- Thread starter Abdisamadi
- Start date
Good to know, can you leave?
The alchemist
VIP
I don't understand what slavery has to do with racism. like Alchemist talked about- all slavery shouldn't be equated with how it was done in the case of the trans-atlantic slave trade.
anyways, I'm against racism but I don't care about slavery. if it's done within the Islamic guidelines there's nothing wrong with it.
I'm not sure how adherent Saudi was to the proper shari rulings as far as slavery but... any violations of the shari rulings would reflect badly on the persons responsible, not on Islam.
I wanted to add, I hope more people even if Muslim join the cause against Islamic Slavery. Most of you are moral, even though there are some who look at pictures like this and feel prideful most are empathetic even though we didn’t face the same problems
That’s where we disagree then, I don’t believe Slavery is a good thing, I don’t believe enslaved people can consent and I’m not a fan of bringing it back to its former days
attash
Amaan Duule
And now you have resorted to showing unsourced ahaadith. No Bukhari, no Muslim, no Abu Dawud, just some picture quoting a book from some dude name Dr Amer el-Husiny.
The great muhaddith Amer el-Husiny! Let us look him up on the internet to show information about this eminent scholar and his no doubt illustrious career! I wonder what scholars he studied under? Which of the great classical madrassahs he attended? Was he one of the great fuqahaa' of Madinah? Makkah? Basra? Baghdad? Damascus? Cairo? Al Andalus perhaps?
Ok, hold on. Maybe the hadith you showed me was legit anyway. Let us at least look it up to see any valid results. Maybe the search engine will show me a link to Sunnah.com showing a sahih hadith like you just described:
Nothing. No sunnah.com. No Bukhari. No Muslim. No valid hadith book of any sort. Just Internet Archive and Slideshare.
You have seriously gone so low as to show me fake hadiths. It really is over for you at this point lmao
As for the hadith about the 12 Qurayshi caliphs, all it is describing is a prophesy predicting 12 Qurayshi caliphs. That's it. Like I said, this does not demonstrate in any way the supposed superiority of the Quraysh in Islam. Do we really need to go over this again?
What's crazy is the fact that you are seriously making the claim that Islam is racist despite the fact that there are explicit ahaadith and ayaat condemning racism in no uncertain terms. Are you just going to ignore all of that? Islam is probably the only major religion whose texts call out racism explicitly.
So far you been shown clear ayaat from the Quran itself, clear ahaadiith, and fataawa describing the opinion of the majority of scholars. You have responded with vague hadith and statements from scholars that you have subjected to your own reasoning and zero ayaat. On top of all of that, you even tried pulling a fast one and citing what looks like a made up hadith (this honestly made my day lmao). I'll let the people reading this thread decide who is right on this one. Meanwhile, I'll continue believing in the truth and you can stick to your delusions.
So much talk, so much insecurity. You think I made up a hadeeth? Ask any sheik and he’ll tell you about the QurayshAnd now you have resorted to showing unsourced ahaadith. No Bukhari, no Muslim, no Abu Dawud, just some picture quoting a book from some dude name Dr Amer el-Husiny.
The great muhaddith Amer el-Husiny! Let us look him up on the internet to show information about this eminent scholar and his no doubt illustrious career! I wonder what scholars he studied under? Which of the great classical madrassahs he attended? Was he one of the great fuqahaa' of Madinah? Makkah? Basra? Baghdad? Damascus? Cairo? Al Andalus perhaps?
View attachment 321000
Ok, hold on. Maybe the hadith you showed me was legit anyway. Let us at least look it up to see any valid results. Maybe the search engine will show me a link to Sunnah.com showing a sahih hadith like you just described:
View attachment 321001
View attachment 321002
Nothing. No sunnah.com. No Bukhari. No Muslim. No valid hadith book of any sort. Just Internet Archive and Slideshare.
You have seriously gone so low as to show me fake hadiths. It really is over for you at this point lmao
As for the hadith about the 12 Qurayshi caliphs, all it is describing is a prophesy predicting 12 Qurayshi caliphs. That's it. Like I said, this does not demonstrate in any way the supposed superiority of the Quraysh in Islam. Do we really need to go over this again?
What's crazy is the fact that you are seriously making the claim that Islam is racist despite the fact that there are explicit ahaadith and ayaat condemning racism in no uncertain terms. Are you just going to ignore all of that? Islam is probably the only major religion whose texts call out racism explicitly.
So far you been shown clear ayaat from the Quran itself, clear ahaadiith, and fataawa describing the opinion of the majority of scholars. You have responded with vague hadith and statements from scholars that you have subjected to your own reasoning and zero ayaat. On top of all of that, you even tried pulling a fast one and citing what looks like a made up hadith (this honestly made my day lmao). I'll let the people reading this thread decide who is right on this one. Meanwhile, I'll continue believing in the truth and you can stick to your delusions.
here’s an actual link
The Excellence of the Quraysh - IlmSource
And just before I begin, the Quraysh aren’t the Saudi ruling family. What? You think I’m joking? Not at all. There are loads of Muslims out there who absolutely believe that only the current Arabs in Saudi Arabia are the modern-day Quraysh, all of them without exception. Actually, there are...
ilmsource.com
I’m the delusional one for thinking Slavery, sex slavery, Child marriage etc are immoral, as well as thinking that accepting another people to rule over you is stupid , sure buddy keep telling yourself that in your head when you pray taraweeh
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Slavery is only unique to african people to these folks
So much talk, so much insecurity. You think I made up a hadeeth? Ask any sheik and he’ll tell you about the Quraysh
here’s an actual link
The Excellence of the Quraysh - IlmSource
And just before I begin, the Quraysh aren’t the Saudi ruling family. What? You think I’m joking? Not at all. There are loads of Muslims out there who absolutely believe that only the current Arabs in Saudi Arabia are the modern-day Quraysh, all of them without exception. Actually, there are...
Where does this supposed hadith that you posted come from? Is this a fake hadith? Show us- is this in Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah- what evidence is there that this is even an authentic hadith?
attash
Amaan Duule
You mad lil bro?
The link you showed me does not show the hadith you mentioned. So yes, me thinks you did show me a made up hadith akhi.You think I made up a hadeeth? Ask any sheik and he’ll tell you about the Quraysh
here’s an actual link
The Excellence of the Quraysh - IlmSource
And just before I begin, the Quraysh aren’t the Saudi ruling family. What? You think I’m joking? Not at all. There are loads of Muslims out there who absolutely believe that only the current Arabs in Saudi Arabia are the modern-day Quraysh, all of them without exception. Actually, there are...
The most similar hadith you showed me in that link is this one:
"Then he called out and said, “O People – and he lifted his hands and placed them on the heads of the Quraysh – O People! The Quraysh are the most trustworthy people. Whoever wishes for them – and Zuhayr said, “I think he said “problems” – Allah will throw him on his face.”
First thing to consider: this hadith is not sahih. It is hasan, so it's authenticity is not guaranteed. Secondly, once again this is a descriptive hadith. Yes, the Quraysh were the most trustworthy people amongst the Arabs and they were known for their honesty and generosity. This is why the Arabs allowed the Quraysh to lead them and guard their religious shrines. This hadith does not say anything about a Qurayshi man being inherently superior to anyone else (a notion that was already explicitly refuted in the other hadith that was shown to you a million times, yet you keep choosing to ignore).
Another similar hadith:
The best of Quraysh are the very best of mankind and the worst of the Quraysh are the very worst of mankind. By the One in Whose Hand lies the soul of Muhammad, if it was not for the fact that the Quraysh become proud, I would have informed them of their position of excellence with Allah.
Again, another descriptive statement. The best of Quraysh was the Prophet (SAWS) who was also the best of mankind. The worst of Quraysh was Abu Jahl who was also the worst of mankind. Due to the many virtuous people amongst the Quraysh, they have a position of excellence with Allah (SWT). Not because they were created superior.
Let us go through the last one:
Certainly, a man from the Quraysh has the strength of two men from other than the Quraysh
It was said to Al-Zuhri what he meant by that. He said: Concerning the nobility of opinion
There are doubts about the authenticity of this hadith due to its weak chains:
الكلام على حديث ( إن للقرشي مثلي قوة الرجل من غير قريش )
الحمد لله والصلاة والسلام على رسول الله وعلى آله وصحبه ومن والاه أما بعد :
alkulify.blogspot.com
Regardless, this hadith is another descriptive statement. The opinion of the Quraysh was held in pre-eminence amongst the Arabs for reasons I already stated before.
Like I said, no case.
attash
Amaan Duule
We could go over every single one of your BS points, but we simply don't need to.
If you want to criticize Islam from a moral perspective, you need to come up with an alternative moral system we can compare it to. If you belong to another religion, tell me which one so we can compare.
But if you are simply irreligious, then you can't tell me what is moral and what is immoral. If you believe God doesn't exist, then your beliefs imply that there are no objective morals. Objective moral laws can't exist without a supreme authority to issue those laws. Otherwise no-one can say any moral system is better than another.
If you are irreligious, but you believe God exists, then this argument still applies. Because, sure, your belief system may say that God exists and issues objective moral laws; but if we do not have access to those laws (religion), then those laws are pointless. We are once again left to our own reasoning to figure out what morality is. And who says my moral reasoning is any better than yours?
So any criticism that an irreligious person tries to throw at Islam from a moral perspective is null and void from the start because their own beliefs undermine the very concept of morality itself.
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He is not with you now because he searches for random, weak hadiths on the Internet so that his distorted argument can continue regarding Islam, even though the verse will be clear about superiority, not by lineage or race, but by individuals.You mad lil bro?
The link you showed me does not show the hadith you mentioned. So yes, me thinks you did show me a made up hadith akhi.
The most similar hadith you showed me in that link is this one:
"Then he called out and said, “O People – and he lifted his hands and placed them on the heads of the Quraysh – O People! The Quraysh are the most trustworthy people. Whoever wishes for them – and Zuhayr said, “I think he said “problems” – Allah will throw him on his face.”
First thing to consider: this hadith is not sahih. It is hasan, so it's authenticity is not guaranteed. Secondly, once again this is a descriptive hadith. Yes, the Quraysh were the most trustworthy people amongst the Arabs and they were known for their honesty and generosity. This is why the Arabs allowed the Quraysh to lead them and guard their religious shrines. This hadith does not say anything about a Qurayshi man being inherently superior to anyone else (a notion that was already explicitly refuted in the other hadith that was shown to you a million times, yet you keep choosing to ignore).
Another similar hadith:
The best of Quraysh are the very best of mankind and the worst of the Quraysh are the very worst of mankind. By the One in Whose Hand lies the soul of Muhammad, if it was not for the fact that the Quraysh become proud, I would have informed them of their position of excellence with Allah.
Again, another descriptive statement. The best of Quraysh was the Prophet (SAWS) who was also the best of mankind. The worst of Quraysh was Abu Jahl who was also the worst of mankind. Due to the many virtuous people amongst the Quraysh, they have a position of excellence with Allah (SWT). Not because they were created superior.
Let us go through the last one:
Certainly, a man from the Quraysh has the strength of two men from other than the Quraysh
It was said to Al-Zuhri what he meant by that. He said: Concerning the nobility of opinion
There are doubts about the authenticity of this hadith due to its weak chains:
الكلام على حديث ( إن للقرشي مثلي قوة الرجل من غير قريش )
الحمد لله والصلاة والسلام على رسول الله وعلى آله وصحبه ومن والاه أما بعد :
Regardless, this hadith is another descriptive statement. The opinion of the Quraysh was held in pre-eminence amongst the Arabs for reasons I already stated before.
Like I said, no case.
Islam doesn't care about your color. It says so in the Qu'ran, it says so in the prophet's last hadiith.
“I’m a Kaafir”
-fixed it for you.
See how easy that was? You only needed 3 words maximum lol.
What makes you think he was Muslim? Are you that dense? It’s obvious he isn’t. He makes it clear through the way he speaks about the Prophet & Arabs in general.
Daydreamer
teetering in-between realities
you came backNow, this is a real man!
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