Does the name of the Adal Sultanate have any relation to the Awdal region?

[HMuuse]

I heard Zelia has a Garxajis ruler in the 19th century but it was still an Ciise town even back then. I'm not gonna deny Isaaq dominating the trade routes especially Habar Awal cause that's just facts

The trade routes from Harar to Zeila were restricted to only two roads. One road was dominated by the Ciise/Nole Oromo and the other was dominated by the Gadabursi. The Isaaq only dominated anything which was the interior towards the Ogaden that had a direct route to Berbera. The Isaaq don't live anywhere near Zeila for them to have any meaningful presence in trade, however the Aden-Berbera trade was dominated by Isaaq which is understandable. However in medieval times Harar to Zeila had only two routes and neither was dominated by Isaaq at all. Nor were they even close.

History of Harar and the Hararis

The Earth and its Inhabitants The Universal Geography

Even the caravans from Harar to Zeila were given protection by the Gadabursi/Ciise and Oromos because it was their territory.

History of Harar and the Hararis

 

[Saciid]

The name awdal is indeed a seconde name of zaylac. At the tail end of the 13th century a man which would be later be known as walashama would conquer a vast tract of territory that would be named the land of zayla. The egyption historian Abd al-Rahman al-Jabarti in his book ‘Aja’ib al-athar fi’t-tarajim wa’l-akhbar wrote that his ancestor come from the land of zayla and as we just wrote zayla had two name which means the land of zayla was also called the land of awdal pronounced often times by arabs as adal.


The land was also called the lands of al-Jabarti which was a city and the capital of the walashama. Al-Jabarti city had a seconde name which was awfat pronounced by most arabs as ifat. In the book writing by Al-Maqrizi he writes awfat not ifat.


In regard to the afars they say that adal is a corrpted name from one of their clans named ad ali meaning white ali because ad is white in afar in fact somalis that live in close proximity to
afar call them adali not adals or awdals. Afars crossed the awash river and toppeld the Imamate of Aussa along side the harla somalis. Later on the harla somalis were also toppeld after their allies that helped them rise to power wanted to also rule over the small area. The harla somalis become afarizazed and today speak afar language but still retain somali geneology. In the spacequant centuries afar expanded more and more until they reached their current territorial extend in modern day ethiopia. They are still trying to expand even more just this year they took over adayito from somalis and previous year took over garbaissa. Just yesterday somalis pushed back an afar raiding militia.

What's you're proof that Harla are Somali and that Afars expanded into Somali lands? Many Afars disagree @Garaad diinle

 

[Garaad diinle]

What's you're proof that Harla are Somali and that Afars expanded into Somali lands? Many Afars disagree @Garaad diinle

Yeah they do indeed disagree they are an expanding force who claimes every land. About
the harla there is this genology recorded by an anthropologist not to long ago about these harla where they say that they are darud. The story about afar expantion is found in there oral traditions. In fact tribes such as we'ma were expanding south at furthest point of afar territory in late 19th century.

Finaly there were no afar mentioned in futuh al-habasha, not even in Tarikh al mujahidin which is
about awsa. The harla were mentiond there which they still lives until this day but no mention of
afar. Afar came in and overthrow the awsa imamate and the harla sultanate that came after it.

 

[Saciid]

Yeah they do indeed disagree they are an expanding force who claimes every land. About
the harla there is this genology recorded by an anthropologist not to long ago about these harla where they say that they are darud. The story about afar expantion is found in there oral traditions. In fact tribes such as we'ma were expanding south at furthest point of afar territory in late 19th century.

Finaly there were no afar mentioned in futuh al-habasha, not even in Tarikh al mujahidin which is
about awsa. The harla were mentiond there which they still lives until this day but no mention of
afar. Afar came in and overthrow the awsa imamate and the harla sultanate that came after it.

Scource for the Afar Harla lineage? And what ab the fact they were diffrantiated in Futuh Al-Habash

 

[Garaad diinle]

Scource for the Afar Harla lineage? And what ab the fact they were diffrantiated in Futuh Al-Habash

I'll search for the geneology.

Have you read futuh al-habasha if so did you see a clan, tribe or even a sup-clan of afar.

 

[Saciid]

I'll search for the geneology.

Have you read futuh al-habasha if so did you see a clan, tribe or even a sup-clan of afar.

No & I don't belive that they were part of it. I mean that Harla are put seperate from Somalis, even their Koombe brothers. That what scholars use to disclaim their Somalinimo

 

[Garaad diinle]

No & I don't belive that they were part of it. I mean that Harla are put seperate from Somalis, even their Koombe brothers. That what scholars use to disclaim their Somalinimo

Well it's indeed complicated but today harla live along their brethern jiran kombe and geri kombe in the oromo DDS bordar. I remember reading something interesting in futuh al-habasha about harla i thing i wrote it down i'll have to get back to you later.

 

[Garaad diinle]

Scource for the Afar Harla lineage? And what ab the fact they were diffrantiated in Futuh Al-Habash

Yo dude this must be your lucky day or something turns out i still haded somewhere.

Here is the harla genology go to the last page.

islhornafr.eu/ReportAwsa2017.pdf

Remember these harla see themself as afar and speak afar language but they have somali geneology because they've conquered by the mudaito.

 

[Garaad diinle]

No & I don't belive that they were part of it. I mean that Harla are put seperate from Somalis, even their Koombe brothers. That what scholars use to disclaim their Somalinimo

Okay this maybe long or all over the place but bear with me okay. Here we go.

In futuh madinat harar a wacky book about the history of harar it said that when abadir
came to harar there were warring tribes in the area and that they had no leaders of their own.
Abadir stopped the war and asked them to choose a leder for themselfs after the salah.
The somalis in harar were represented by aw Barkhadle, Ismail Al-Jabarti and aw Bube.


Now your familiar with aw Barkhadle and Ismail Al-Jabarti but what about aw Bube. Aw Bube
is said by hararis to be somali and why not after all his name aw Bube is somali meaning flying sheekh and his place to day is found in the somali galbeed. What is werid is somalis that lives in northern somali galbeed say that he is harla so what gives.


So as we said previusly he is assosiated with somalis his name is somali and his historical deegan is in somali galbeed so how is he a harla? Are somalis lying. The confuison is from westerners who differentiate between somalis and harla relying solely on a single exert from a singl book which is academically a big no no. Aw bube grandson is mentioned in futuh al-habasha as leding the harla as their amiras his grandfather lead the somalis prior.

Aw Bube is somali with a somali name and his grandson lead harla kombe somalis. Why did the book put them a part who knows their could be many reasons somali today mistreat yibirs and don't eat with them but in futuh al-habasha yibir was standidng shoulder to shoulder with their somali brethern.


Harla is mention by somalis living in fiq, aw Bare, sitti and awdal. In fact in the nogal vally
there is ruins of many settlement that the dhulbahante say were build by harla. How do the dhulbahante who lives far away from hararghe know about harla well because they are their fellow clans men dhulbahante kombe. Harla are found among issa and these found among the afar have somali linage.


In the end if you are curious about their history and how they see themselfs you may go and ask them where they live. They live in Borale among many other somalis particularly jiran kombe geri kombet heir cousins. Borale is in hararghe on the border between somali galbeed
and oromia. It use to be somali galbeed but now it is considert oromia sadly.

 

[Saciid]

Okay this maybe long or all over the place but bear with me okay. Here we go.

In futuh madinat harar a wacky book about the history of harar it said that when abadir
came to harar there were warring tribes in the area and that they had no leaders of their own.
Abadir stopped the war and asked them to choose a leder for themselfs after the salah.
The somalis in harar were represented by aw Barkhadle, Ismail Al-Jabarti and aw Bube.


Now your familiar with aw Barkhadle and Ismail Al-Jabarti but what about aw Bube. Aw Bube
is said by hararis to be somali and why not after all his name aw Bube is somali meaning flying sheekh and his place to day is found in the somali galbeed. What is werid is somalis that lives in northern somali galbeed say that he is harla so what gives.


So as we said previusly he is assosiated with somalis his name is somali and his historical deegan is in somali galbeed so how is he a harla? Are somalis lying. The confuison is from westerners who differentiate between somalis and harla relying solely on a single exert from a singl book which is academically a big no no. Aw bube grandson is mentioned in futuh al-habasha as leding the harla as their amiras his grandfather lead the somalis prior.

Aw Bube is somali with a somali name and his grandson lead harla kombe somalis. Why did the book put them a part who knows their could be many reasons somali today mistreat yibirs and don't eat with them but in futuh al-habasha yibir was standidng shoulder to shoulder with their somali brethern.


Harla is mention by somalis living in fiq, aw Bare, sitti and awdal. In fact in the nogal vally
there is ruins of many settlement that the dhulbahante say were build by harla. How do the dhulbahante who lives far away from hararghe know about harla well because they are their fellow clans men dhulbahante kombe. Harla are found among issa and these found among the afar have somali linage.


In the end if you are curious about their history and how they see themselfs you may go and ask them where they live. They live in Borale among many other somalis particularly jiran kombe geri kombet heir cousins. Borale is in hararghe on the border between somali galbeed
and oromia. It use to be somali galbeed but now it is considert oromia sadly.

interesting, I agree with your assessment from before, but with caution. I would like to add that the general region of Harla land have no non-Somali substratum detected, either linguistically or genetically as @Shimbiris can confirm.

Also attributing religious men with flying and the name Buube is a common somali practice, with Aw Buube in Middle Shabelle as futher evidence.

I talked to a guy who had deep connections to Dollo and he said he talked to a Harla family there and they used to be prominent there before Mj expansion ~250 ago, so Harla buildings in Dhulo lands isn't as suprising

 

[Garaad diinle]

interesting, I agree with your assessment from before, but with caution. I would like to add that the general region of Harla land have no non-Somali substratum detected, either linguistically or genetically as @Shimbiris can confirm.

Also attributing religious men with flying and the name Buube is a common somali practice, with Aw Buube in Middle Shabelle as futher evidence.

I talked to a guy who had deep connections to Dollo and he said he talked to a Harla family there and they used to be prominent there before Mj expansion ~250 ago, so Harla buildings in Dhulo lands isn't as suprising

Well honestly i don't know myself i've only reaserched this when i chatted with a harla somali a long time ago. He laughed when i said there are no harla today and he said his from borale. He said he is somali and even spoke somali to me.

 

[Shimbiris]

interesting, I agree with your assessment from before, but with caution. I would like to add that the general region of Harla land have no non-Somali substratum detected, either linguistically or genetically as @Shimbiris can confirm.

If you mean northwest Somali territories like what is now Awdal and the areas Somali occupy nearing Harar then yes. There is no known non-Somali substratum. There is evidence of adstrata like loans from Southern Ethiosemitic that mostly seem to have come later from a language like Harari and some from Af Canfar but no known substrata. The Futux al-Xabasha also pretty much confirms tribal continuity in the region for the last 500 years at least. The same tribes mentioned as living around Harar and around the northwest during the 1500s are the exact same ones documented in the 1800s by Burton and 1990s to the present.

 

[Saciid]

The name awdal is indeed a seconde name of zaylac. At the tail end of the 13th century a man which would be later be known as walashama would conquer a vast tract of territory that would be named the land of zayla. The egyption historian Abd al-Rahman al-Jabarti in his book ‘Aja’ib al-athar fi’t-tarajim wa’l-akhbar wrote that his ancestor come from the land of zayla and as we just wrote zayla had two name which means the land of zayla was also called the land of awdal pronounced often times by arabs as adal.


The land was also called the lands of al-Jabarti which was a city and the capital of the walashama. Al-Jabarti city had a seconde name which was awfat pronounced by most arabs as ifat. In the book writing by Al-Maqrizi he writes awfat not ifat.


In regard to the afars they say that adal is a corrpted name from one of their clans named ad ali meaning white ali because ad is white in afar in fact somalis that live in close proximity to
afar call them adali not adals or awdals. Afars crossed the awash river and toppeld the Imamate of Aussa along side the harla somalis. Later on the harla somalis were also toppeld after their allies that helped them rise to power wanted to also rule over the small area. The harla somalis become afarizazed and today speak afar language but still retain somali geneology. In the spacequant centuries afar expanded more and more until they reached their current territorial extend in modern day ethiopia. They are still trying to expand even more just this year they took over adayito from somalis and previous year took over garbaissa. Just yesterday somalis pushed back an afar raiding militia.

It wasn't the second name, but the native one similar to Xamar and even mentioned by the Greeks

If you mean northwest Somali territories like what is now Awdal and the areas Somali occupy nearing Harar then yes. There is no known non-Somali substratum. There is evidence of adstrata like loans from Southern Ethiosemitic that mostly seem to have come later from a language like Harari and some from Af Canfar but no known substrata. The Futux al-Xabasha also pretty much confirms tribal continuity in the region for the last 500 years at least. The same tribes mentioned as living around Harar and around the northwest during the 1500s are the exact same ones documented in the 1800s by Burton and 1990s to the present.

I'm also talking ab the regions of East Hararghe, Bale and parts of West Hararghe too

 

[Shimbiris]

I'm also talking ab the regions of East Hararghe, Bale and parts of West Hararghe too

Yeah, as far as I know, Somali in general has no susbtrates. Maybe the dialects of the Bantu groups in parts of Koonfur but otherwise none that I have ever heard of. Despite Ehret's theory, there really is not much linguistic evidence that people other than Somalis lived across Somaliweyn in any notable numbers that would result in Somalis absorbing them to form the modern demographic situation. Though I'd like to contact some prominent Somali linguists and confirm this from them too but that is the general impression I've gotten over the years.

 

[Saciid]

Yeah, as far as I know, Somali in general has no susbtrates. Maybe the dialects of the Bantu groups in parts of Koonfur but otherwise none that I have ever heard of. Despite Ehret's theory, there really is not much linguistic evidence that people other than Somalis lived across Somaliweyn in any notable numbers that would result in Somalis absorbing them to form the modern demographic situation. Though I'd like to contact some prominent Somali linguists and confirm this from them too but that is the general impression I've gotten over the years.

I believe that all the population change stories that many previous scholars lile Cerulli noted were rather intra-Somali migrations. Either non-muslim Somalis, the "Gallas" of colonial historiography, or different Somali groups. Ehret and most linguistics had a poor southern knowledge (like saying that Geelidle had their own dialect lol), and I believe better studies on them will reveal other Somali dialects substratum which their oral stories hints at. Many D&M have origins from Bale and upper webi region and they met other bil'is Somalis and their boons like Madanle in Baydhowa region when they came to the South.

 

[Garaad diinle]

the native one similar to Xamar

Actually mogadishu is also a native name and was the first to be mentioned historicly.
The very first mention of xamar is in dimashqi book. He mistakes the name as a discription
rather than a name calling it mogadishu al hamra.

You know what maybe it's simply a descriptive name because xamar also means a color among other things in af somali. If it's a descriptive name it would follow the naming style of
coastal cites such as marka called marka caday.

and even mentioned by the Greeks

If your talking about greek mentioning the name awdal as Avalites which could be also pronounced awal ¨ites¨ being a suffix and v and w is exchangable then yeah. Though don't forget that he also calls the strait of the red sea as the strait of diria ¨ia¨ being suffix indicating country. The strait is named as such after a city on the somali coast of the same name and most likely the somali dir clan.

It's interesting that both the strait and the golv were named by the greek after somali city names. These somali were also called troglodytae meaning cave dwellers because of the spherical shape of the somali min.

 

[Shimbiris]

I believe that all the population change stories that many previous scholars lile Cerulli noted were rather intra-Somali migrations. Either non-muslim Somalis, the "Gallas" of colonial historiography, or different Somali groups. Ehret and most linguistics had a poor southern knowledge (like saying that Geelidle had their own dialect lol), and I believe better studies on them will reveal other Somali dialects substratum which their oral stories hints at. Many D&M have origins from Bale and upper webi region and they met other bil'is Somalis and their boons like Madanle in Baydhowa region when they came to the South.

Yes, I generally think the same. I think they confuse intra-Somali migrations for actual intra-ethnic migrations within the Horn. There were most likely never any Oromos living anywhere in Somaliweyn except probably around the southwest of Galbeed before the Oromo expansions, for example. They make too much of all the "Gaal" place names and whatnot that back then probably meant camel and not "Galla".

 

[Saciid]

Actually mogadishu is also a native name and was the first to be mentioned historicly.
The very first mention of xamar is in dimashqi book. He mistakes the name as a discription
rather than a name calling it mogadishu al hamra.

You know what maybe it's simply a descriptive name because xamar also means a color among other things in af somali. If it's a descriptive name it would follow the naming style of
coastal cites such as marka called marka caday.

Xamar isn't a descriptive as Marka cadey as Xamar was also known as Xamar cadey due to the whitewashed buildings. Also nobody calls Marka just cadey like xamar nor are parts of the city called cadey like Xamarweyn & Xamar jabjab. I agree with u that Xamar most likley means a color bc that's how Somalis elsewhere used it and Xamar's ground has that color too

If your talking about greek mentioning the name awdal as Avalites which could be also pronounced awal ¨ites¨ being a suffix and v and w is exchangable then yeah. Though don't forget that he also calls the strait of the red sea as the strait of diria ¨ia¨ being suffix indicating country. The strait is named as such after a city on the somali coast of the same name and most likely the somali dir clan.

It's interesting that both the strait and the golv were named by the greek after somali city names.

What does "ites" and "ia" mean in Greek and Arabic?

These somali were also called troglodytae meaning cave dwellers because of the spherical shape of the somali min.

Did u read this somewhere or is it your own theory? Bc if it's the latter, that's a smart one

 

[Garaad diinle]

What does "ites" and "ia" mean in Greek and Arabic?

Ia is a suffix indicating country for example somal somalia or arab arabia or even in arabic suri suriya. Ites is just another suffix used to indicate people i think. I think i read some greek historians or geographers use this suffix for some arab clans.

Did u read this somewhere or is it your own theory? Bc if it's the latter, that's a smart one

honestly it's just a theory. We know that troglodytae means cave dellewrs and some greeks that been to somalia said that these troglodytae are pastoralist. These pastoralist live in a spherical aqal hence cave dwellers.

 

[Som]

No, Awdal is the Somali name of the ancient city of Zeyla.
Adal is something else, probably derived from the Afar clan with the same name.

Source? Many sources connect Awdal and adal. If you make such a claim you should quote something. I know some sources connect the name adal with the Amharic name for an Afar word but how is this any better than the Adal-Awdal connection? It's speculation.
Example from Historical Dictionary of Djibouti - Page 19
AWDAL . The Somali word for Adal . This name was officially given to the northernmost region of Somalia bordering Djibouti