Dr Osman Analysis - Democracy How To Implement In Somalia

[felloff]

Somalis should modernise xeer and create our own system of government no Democracy no Communism no Marxism

 

[DR OSMAN]

Hebel hebel said this kulaha I quoted the Quran kkkk you're clutching at straws I presented you with facts and all you have is emotions what you feel and how it makes others feel and how we feel my g forget how we feel and present the evidence.

U missed the point bro. Like I said the topic needs it's own thread honestly, not in this place!!! But all those verses u stated needed 'human' interpretations(hebel hebel said). The question is why is your interpretation more better then mine? I will be using alot more then hebel hebel said in my thread regarding this topic but appealing to historical facts, logical facts, and things people can see with their own eyes and contemplate with their own brains!!! That's why I feel my interpretation will be a-lot more convincing then yours which is just to pump out verses and said the quran said this!!!! no the quran never said that your 'teacher interpreted it for u'. All those verses can be reinterpretated. The question really comes to who has the right interpretation and it will depend on who is more convincing at the end of the day!!!

Good ole islamists, your in for one heck of a ride when that islam and somalia thread is open

 

[DR OSMAN]

Somalis should modernise xeer and create our own system of government no Democracy no Communism no Marxism

Yep simply do what the UAE did, turn their cultural systems into a modern system of government!!! I think that's what we should do. We could sit under a tree and remember the 'peace' this system enjoys as nomads move and share resources without any conflict, rather then sit in a western hotel which we have been doing since the 60s!!!

 

[YoungFarah]

Yep simply do what the UAE did, turn their cultural systems into a modern system of government!!! I think that's what we should do. We could sit under a tree and remember the 'peace' this system enjoys as nomads move and share resources without any conflict, rather then sit in a western hotel which we have been doing since the 60s!!!

Dr do you think that the current 4.5 system is the be all and end all for the Somali political system? Do you not think it's discriminatory to some groups living in the country? Should it not be xeer as you say and some form of meritocracy?

 

[DR OSMAN]

Dr do you think that the current 4.5 system is the be all and end all for the Somali political system? Do you not think it's discriminatory to some groups living in the country? Should it not be xeer as you say and some form of meritocracy?

It's a juggle between somalis feeling included in the system(4.5) and a mix of meritocracy, aim to get the best from each clan not the garbage!!! I would however adopt how they work among clans in the xeer on shared matters and the mechanism they use and modernize it to the state level!!!

 

[DR OSMAN]

The only side that is represented in all these policy debates is one side, the secularist, federalist, centralist, and democrats!!! I think that is totally unfair. The traditionalist, the islamists need to be in these debates!!!

If no1 sees a pattern here then they r blind. African rural areas are at peace, traditional mechanism are still enforced and enjoy influence. It's always the cities that are in chaos cause the traditional methods are not longer enforceable and lost influence!!! If they implemented that foreign method like they did in the rural areas, they would also be at civil war just like the cities!!!

We need africans to wake up from this slumber of sleep and western dependence and say enough is enough!!! we are not stupid, we know how to keep the peace among ourselves using our own system, we don't need your system, go away you society destroyer. U can apply this to islamist also!!! trying to bring a saudi way of life to us and centralize rule and create all these fractures along idealogical lines which are honestly just tribal lines cause they dont want to be ruled from a central area, it re-creates the rat race we saw in the democratic system!!!

I hope one day the 'free minded' cause there is hardly any of those in africa unite to create a powerful force on the continent, where we come up with our unique solution putting faith in our own cultures rather then a saudi arabian culture or an american man!!! unshackle the mind slavery...LONG LIVE TRADITIONALISTS

 

[DR OSMAN]

Remember somalis, sometimes your answers lie where u least expect? it was always staring us in the face when we were slaughtering each other in the cities, the nomads were enjoying their way of life unaffected, a darod nomad could criss cross to a hawiye area and have full safety because they all believed in a common system that came from them, not from the white man!!! Isn't that after all we want in somalia? where somalis can live at peace with each other? isnt that what our leaders keep talking about? amni amni amni? well rather then going to fancy workshop in western world, you should've of just sat underneath the tree and observed the nomads.

Anyone who says somalis are not nomadic are indeed fools. Regardless if they live in coastal areas, farms, cities, diaspora. Even the most educated somali is a tribalist, look at the western somalis!!! look at all the tribalism still rife in the diaspora? the nomad never left us regardless where we settle!!! that is our culture, time to embrace it, learn from it, and create solutions from it. If ur idea can't reference any sort of backup from the nomads, its liklihood of working is very slim indeed!!!

I am proud to say, I am a traditionalist!!! I wish we had a lobby for these people like that nonsensical anti tribal movement does!!! simply trying to copy their fathers footsteps and fail to realize it never worked in the past, how will it work now with the huge fractures in our society!!!

Maybe we can call ourselves the Somali Traditionalist Lobby with a slogan our stability relies on our culture not someone elses!!!!

We can call ourselves, liberated africans to other africans once africa is shocked how stable somalia is and growing!!! we can start a revolution across the continent.

We can copy the west in everything else, economics, science, medical, technology, thats knowledge. That can be shared across all people. But how we rule ourselves and how I keep the stability in my house needs to reflect my culture not someone elses. I can't go to a chinese home and rule yourselves inside this house using somali culture, it's nonsensical!!!

 

[SuldaanGuled]

Suldan, All I was say on this matter is. I don't believe in an Islam where allah looks at how big your islamic caliphate was and how you conquered people. Islam is about yourself and god, it has nothing to do with what someone else is doing!!! When you die you are judged on your life results, not asked about other people, infact your parents will run from you. It's an individual orientated religion and should stay that way!!!

I believe in a personal islam, a religion between me and god. After all I prefer to go to god and say, I created a system that unites people like the prophet did in medina with his medina constitution which was totally secular allowing rights for jews and pagans equal rights in the states, created a check n balance by declaring rights for each groups, responsibilities, and of course consequences!!! I will answer to god and say the reason why I support a system that is based on 'results' is because there is no other way to unite people except along common values shared. Everyone wants freedom, everyone wants equality, everyone wants justice. These are the only things we can agree on. We surely can't agree on tribe, religion, and other divivise matters. Hence why the constitution in median was very secular, it attempted to resolve differences by uniting people across common ground which is shared humanity and those core values I just stated!!!

I want to tell god, I wanted my people to survive not fight each other. I left behind a system that focussed on what they can agree on. We can agree on the fact the best man should get the job based on merit, not because he is a muslim, or she wears a hijab, or he is a secularist!!! we want the best person for the role, identity politics is age old institutions that rewards people on 'superficial' matters that hold no weight. The quran says clearly 'every people destroy themselves first' it's up to us to survive. If we want to be in a perpertual state of war then play identity politics like clan, religion, race etc and eventually we will wipe each other out and nothing will be left. No1 will be able to pray anymore, fast anymore, and I feel god will look down on you and say 'how can i reward u for anything in life when you destroyed it and went against your own common sense', you are basically a 'qowm is-halaagay'.

This is a very deep issue which I will provide my best anaylsis in the future, look out for the topic ISLAM AND SOMALIA.

One of my personal favorite ministers is maryan qasim, she is very religious. You think I would ever say to remove her from the role? buddy i look at results of people, just like allah looks at our results!!! I don't look at identity politics. You could wear a whole damn burka but if you the best person and have the best mind, i want you taking the lead!!! As long as u respect the constitution, just like everyone had to respect the constitution in medina, when they didnt and the jews broke it, if the prophet didnt exile them, the whole state would've collapsed as mistrust and fitna would be generated and everyone returning to tribal politics!!! So if any1 breaks the constitution in somalia we must do the same hence why I keep suggesting we need a NATO pact of sort as a check n balance on the government. I will be the first to shoot at a secularist if he breaks the constitution. I honestly dont play identity politics!!!

You know if u honestly dont want freedom-equality-justice, core values of all humans, then you want domination and regardless what your background is, your a fitnah in the land and must be eliminated regardless if it is a tribal person, religious person, secularist person!!! if you dont want a system where everything is shared along results then you want people to break back down to 'jahiliyah' and you are the devil in my eyes regardless what 'cloak' you are disguise yourself in!!!

No one asked you about the caliphate and no where is it mentioned in any islamic sources that one will be questioned about how big it was. Furthermore despite your futile attempt to redefine islam as a private religion one will indeed be questioned about other people it'll be a part of what you referred to as "life results". Please bring us evidence to what you're claiming about islam that it's an individual orientated religion ?? ever heard of the phrase Ummah ? It depends on the type of job being talked about , why should a gaal be in charge of somalia when it's a muslim majority country ? could you give me a list of examples from western nations that are led by practising muslims ? You're using medina as a point of reference to argue for your case but we've the Quran why dont you use it ? When muslims captured makkah the idols inside the kaabah were destroyed, the prophet peace be upon him also ordered the sahabah to destroy public idols in different regions, now this according to you will be injustice but in islam it isn't considered injustice. The reason being any form of idolatry in public isn't allowed in islam.

You mean to tell God that you found a better way of governance than the one sanctioned by Him ? how does that work ? freedom equality, justice are all relative and valueless unless they're grounded on a foundation that foundation for us muslims is one sanctioned by Him. Now you want to change that foundation and base it on what you personally believe in or should i say convinced of ? What you fail to realise is that there's no multiple paths to God there's only one which is sanctioned by Him, any other path is a deviation from the valid one accepted by God. The shahadah affirms that worship is to Allah only and negates it for anyone other than Allah and a muslim is one who submits to Allah meaning we're slaves and Allah is our Master. This is the relationship that exists between Allah and His creation now you want to argue otherwise. If you wish to follow your own path then you're free to do so but please stop trying to recruit us in your path we aren't interested nor are the people of somalia.

 

[DR OSMAN]

No one asked you about the caliphate and no where is it mentioned in any islamic sources that one will be questioned about how big it was. Furthermore despite your futile attempt to redefine islam as a private religion one will indeed be questioned about other people it'll be a part of what you referred to as "life results". Please bring us evidence to what you're claiming about islam that it's an individual orientated religion ?? ever heard of the phrase Ummah ? It depends on the type of job being talked about , why should a gaal be in charge of somalia when it's a muslim majority country ? could you give me a list of examples from western nations that are led by practising muslims ? You're using medina as a point of reference to argue for your case but we've the Quran why dont you use it ? When muslims captured makkah the idols inside the kaabah were destroyed, the prophet peace be upon him also ordered the sahabah to destroy public idols in different regions, now this according to you will be injustice but in islam it isn't considered injustice. The reason being any form of idolatry in public isn't allowed in islam.

You mean to tell God that you found a better way of governance than the one sanctioned by Him ? how does that work ? freedom equality, justice are all relative and valueless unless they're grounded on a foundation that foundation for us muslims is one sanctioned by Him. Now you want to change that foundation and base it on what you personally believe in or should i say convinced of ? What you fail to realise is that there's no multiple paths to God there's only one which is sanctioned by Him, any other path is a deviation from the valid one accepted by God. The shahadah affirms that worship is to Allah only and negates it for anyone other than Allah and a muslim is one who submits to Allah meaning we're slaves and Allah is our Master. This is the relationship that exists between Allah and His creation now you want to argue otherwise. If you wish to follow your own path then you're free to do so but please stop trying to recruit us in your path we aren't interested nor are the people of somalia.

The islam u know has been handed down to you thru interpretations to suit an agenda, If they are so against idols, why didnt they break the ones in egypt when they conquered it?. Like I said, the islamist will be analyzed in depth, just be patient until I do an article for it!!! All I can tell u my friend is, the islam your being taught has roots in 'salafist' man named abdul wahab!!! this man version of islam is what your following, not the early form of islam, which I will highlight a number of evidences that goes against it!!! U r only to fight who fights u on the grounds of religion, you are not supposed to go on 'expansions' around the world and build a damn khilafa for u r the transgressor then which is one of the biggest sins!!! Put it this way the prophet would of never expanded beyond the target aggressor. He always tried to bridge differences through a mutually acceptable constitution before taking up arms!!!

When a people cannot agree on tribe, religion, politics, and other divivise matter, it is only reasonable they sit down and agree on some values. U want to be free dont u to practise your faith? so do I? which is enshrined in our nomaidc way of life. Gaal dil and gartisa si? as long as they don't break the system you both are under, let him be or else u r the trangressor and trying to cause fitna in the land, regardless of what cloak(muslim) you wish to cover yourself in!!! U want to be free dont u to bring new ideas and have an avenue to express it? this is very supported in our culture where they sit under a tree and everyone freely expresses his greivances, opinion, ideas. U want equality dont u? so do I? big and small clans enjoy the same rights under our nomadic system!!!

U want to be able to access jobs based on your ability not your identity dont u? same with justice u want the rule of law applied equally to people dont u? not this farce happening in saudi arabia where only the poor get the brunt of the law and rich walk away or certain tribes and families are immune!!! without justice system it causes a civil war to occur because there is nowhere a person can take his greivances cause its either corrupt(costs to much) or non existant like in Somalia!!! Societies not grounded in strong values, will never survive!!! values are like the root of a tree, once it's established, the tree can blossom(development across the country) while the root holding it is core values!!! Countries like saudi arabia are not built to last, the root is not values, the root is 'money' giving welfare to their people like homes, study, health, income, in return they keep the peace and dependence on arms(usa) to enforce the peace, these things are not 'unlimited' money and arms can disappear anytime when the oil runs out!!! they are opened up basically to be broken back down into jahiliyah when they can't bribe people anymore to keep the peace.

That's when opportunistic locals and foreigners will instigate 'mistrust' across the country as resources are no longer there and people are not satisified. They are not like our nomads who will not kill each other regardless of famine or poverty, because their system is rooted in 'deep values' that they respect!!! I must say their nomads the arabs are also holding deep values the UAE successfully did it!!! they can last for a lot longer since their system reflects what their nomadic one is which can survive. King Faisal said they can return to nomadic way of life if oil runs out when he was doing the embargo on the USA over involvement in israel!!! So I am not sure 100% but the current form of saudi arabia the way it's built, I know for a fact won't last forever, it simply isn't built too!!! It requires resources to keep it afloat, not shared values!!! Same with the west. Why u think romans, greeks, pharoahs and basically every empire collapsed? cause they were built on resources and once that runs out the comfort is over and its civil war!!!

These are not systems I want to see adopted, we want to leave behind for our people a system that can stand the test of time for centuries and mellenias, where the people can hug each other and hold hands even if resources don't exist like the nomads do, and the only way to do that is to implement their system!!! As long as we aim to keep humans alive, there is always hope, but the second humans are gone, hope is finished, there is no going back from that!!! So our system must aim to keep us alive thru good and bad times!!!

 

[SuldaanGuled]

The islam u know has been handed down to you thru interpretations to suit an agenda, If they are so against idols, why didnt they break the ones in egypt when they conquered it?. Like I said, the islamist will be analyzed in depth, just be patient until I do an article for it!!! All I can tell u my friend is, the islam your being taught has roots in 'salafist' man named abdul wahab!!! this man version of islam is what your following, not the early form of islam, which I will highlight a number of evidences that goes against it!!! U r only to fight who fights u on the grounds of religion, you are not supposed to go on 'expansions' around the world and build a damn khilafa for u r the transgressor then which is one of the biggest sins!!! Put it this way the prophet would of never expanded beyond the target aggressor. He always tried to bridge differences through a mutually acceptable constitution before taking up arms!!!

When a people cannot agree on tribe, religion, politics, and other divivise matter, it is only reasonable they sit down and agree on some values. U want to be free dont u to practise your faith? so do I? which is enshrined in our nomaidc way of life. Gaal dil and gartisa si? as long as they don't break the system you both are under, let him be or else u r the trangressor and trying to cause fitna in the land, regardless of what cloak(muslim) you wish to cover yourself in!!! U want to be free dont u to bring new ideas and have an avenue to express it? this is very supported in our culture where they sit under a tree and everyone freely expresses his greivances, opinion, ideas. U want equality dont u? so do I? big and small clans enjoy the same rights under our nomadic system!!!

U want to be able to access jobs based on your ability not your identity dont u? same with justice u want the rule of law applied equally to people dont u? not this farce happening in saudi arabia where only the poor get the brunt of the law and rich walk away or certain tribes and families are immune!!! without justice system it causes a civil war to occur because there is nowhere a person can take his greivances cause its either corrupt(costs to much) or non existant like in Somalia!!! Societies not grounded in strong values, will never survive!!! values are like the root of a tree, once it's established, the tree can blossom(development across the country) while the root holding it is core values!!! Countries like saudi arabia are not built to last, the root is not values, the root is 'money' giving welfare to their people like homes, study, health, income, in return they keep the peace and dependence on arms(usa) to enforce the peace, these things are not 'unlimited' money and arms can disappear anytime when the oil runs out!!! they are opened up basically to be broken back down into jahiliyah when they can't bribe people anymore to keep the peace.

That's when opportunistic locals and foreigners will instigate 'mistrust' across the country as resources are no longer there and people are not satisified. They are not like our nomads who will not kill each other regardless of famine or poverty, because their system is rooted in 'deep values' that they respect!!! I must say their nomads the arabs are also holding deep values the UAE successfully did it!!! they can last for a lot longer since their system reflects what their nomadic one is which can survive. King Faisal said they can return to nomadic way of life if oil runs out when he was doing the embargo on the USA over involvement in israel!!! So I am not sure 100% but the current form of saudi arabia the way it's built, I know for a fact won't last forever, it simply isn't built too!!! It requires resources to keep it afloat, not shared values!!! Same with the west. Why u think romans, greeks, pharoahs and basically every empire collapsed? cause they were built on resources and once that runs out the comfort is over and its civil war!!!

These are not systems I want to see adopted, we want to leave behind for our people a system that can stand the test of time for centuries and mellenias, where the people can hug each other and hold hands even if resources don't exist like the nomads do, and the only way to do that is to implement their system!!! As long as we aim to keep humans alive, there is always hope, but the second humans are gone, hope is finished, there is no going back from that!!! So our system must aim to keep us alive thru good and bad times!!!

How is it rooted on being "salafist" when what i'm referring to happened during the prophets time ? the evidence for their destruction pre-dates imam abdul wahab by 8/9 centuries ? are you trying to tell us that early islam accepted idolatry and that suddenly the imam changed everything ? There could be a number of reasons as to why they didn't break them in egypt but that's besides the point as we've actual evidence from the prophet peace be upon ordering their destruction. Now it's you who has to prove that breaking idols is not from islam as you seem to argue for it ? I brought this point up to show you that when you speak of equality, justice, freedom it's dependent on your notion on how you define them. Your definition and what you base it own is relative but here is the problem you want to make it the standard to which we should judge by question is why should i accept it ? i've asked this same question to a lot of athiests, agnostics on sspot but the response has been less than impressive.

You act as if your notions, values, norms and what should be considered appropriate are universal, they aren't stop imposing it on us this is the same mentality that gaalka cadanka has and you've been indoctrinated to view the world from their perspective nothing more. How is it that you have a problem with "muslim expansion" but remain silent on "european expansion" which goes on today as we speak ? is it a mere coincidence that you espouse western views and want us to adopt them ? you fight us to accept and normalise "european expansion" in our midst ? who's the aggressor ? People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

Bal ii sheeg how gaalka came to somalia ? a somali gaal was unheard of until europeans invaded us, things would've been different if there were native gaal in somalia like some muslim countries egypt, iraq, syria etc. You act as if a democratic type of governance is free from racism, discrimination i wonder why ? i've been discriminated based on my ethnicity, religion etc for as long as i've been in the west. Why is the that your critique of islam is based not on the teachings of islam but rather on the people and their lack of implementing islam as it should be ? Mismanagement will always lead to negative outcomes in any given society but this is a fault caused by humans not islam stop conflating the two.

If the values of both gaalada & muslimiinta aren't built to last why is that you want us to adopt democracy. I mean by your own admission it's faulty why in the world would you advocate us to adopt it when it isn't going to last ? the only logical answer is that you view it to be better and superior than the islamic one so it's a case of choosing the "most likely" system to succeed so ma ahaan ?

 

[DR OSMAN]

There is nowhere in the quran where it says to break idols, it says not to worship anything but allah but to break them not a single source!!! This can explain why they never broke them where-ever the early muslims went, not this nonsense you respond with 'number of other reasons'.

Now u shoot yourself in the foot allowing for islamic administrations to get away with what u call 'mismanagement' then complain that in the west you get discriminated upon and the system isn't perfect. It's funny how u apply two different standards dont you think? you won't allow to include 'mismanagement' for the western model, but allow it for the 'islamic model'. Listen it's not even about management, it's about core values. Everywhere there is a people, if they are not in agreement on values that are shared between them, they can never function. U see this in businesses, the first thing is the 'values' of that business, it's culture. If you don't align with their culture, you could bring in 'filth' and destroy the company from within. It's not just businesses, but schools, media, govts, or any sort of shared space between humans.

Yes u got something right. I don't believe the western and muslim systems are built to last operating today are built to last, I brought evidence for that!!! U can see all the different caliphates collapsing over time, u can see all the different western civilizations collapsing also!!! U have to study deeply what made these people great was the core values of their system and it's enforcement, this led to advancement and wealth and once those started to kick in especially the excessive wealth, they forgot about the core values and it's enforcement. Corruption started to come in, bad administration, people started to lose faith, and eventually a slow but predictable crumble either from within or from outside.

It honestly doesn't matter if u have the quran as ur base of system or a constitution, the second the core values are not seen anymore in the society, basic core values that all humans want. Freedom-Equality-Justice, you are on the path of destruction!!! These are not western core values, these are humanity core values. Every human has operated in this fashion since day 1, it wasn't the westerners who created it. They created democracy feeling this 'answers' those core values, which in reality it doesn't.

I don't care what system is in somalia, all I will be looking or is those core values, cause I know that is the only thing that unites people, not the quran, not a language, not a tribe, not a national identity!!! all these are 'identity' politics and identities can change over time and with that comes a collapse of your system but core values I mentioned, that is static regardless of time or era or where-ever humans may be. I could be in a desert riding a camel, or in the jungles of the amazon, or in mecca itself. Everyone wants these core values!!! Why u think the prophet sent his early people to abssyinia? its about core values sxb of a society, all humans yearn for it!!!

Your not trying to create a system that answers these core values which unite people regardless of what their denomination, religion, tribe, race, all this identity politics crap, like the abssyinian king did. Because a society flourishes when the people feel they have those needs answered, they can carry on and move on to progress their country and people rather then be a in perpertual state of war or mistrust and suspicion!!! U want to force your system on top of others which will only lead to a clash in the end which is what is occurring!!!

If u can demonstrate how islamism can fit into our culture, then welcome. If u can't sxb, your pulling on straws and have ulterior motives which maybe whatever it is. Just say this basically. Islamic system does this and does that and then point to the nomads and say look they do this and do that so it will fit into our society!!! nothing else. We need a framework to work from that is agreed before we discuss what system we will adopt. A working framework is something both my eyes and your eyes can see 'PEACE IN THE NOMADIC AREAS'. I can't fake that for u, u see it, i see it, somalis see it. Now lets address how ur system can create that 'oasis' of peace that they enjoy!!! thats all u need to do, other wise its just your 'theory' and i dont buy into theories!!!!

Noone really should care about identity politics, it doesnt bring horumar!!! who cares if someone follows allah or they dont, all u should care about is this person producing benefit for the society. If u hate kuffar so much, stop taking kuffar medicine, using technology, military arms, etc!!! How is it you islamist use everything that the westerner created and criticize them, you shouldnt use anything they create because its from kuffar as you say, it must be bad.

In reality, in somalia I envision where we dont care if ur muslim, christian, atheist. Just respect the constitution and rule of law and demonstrate how u can add 'productivity' to the society, thats all we care about, we are society that is based on 'waxqabad' basically just 'results' not identity bullshit!!! we will become the biggest superpower this world has ever seen since we rose above bullshit that is meaningless and based everything on 'results'

Dont u see what happens when a society is based on core values of humanity, what this can lead too? if everything is based on freedom-equality-justice, it can lead to only differentiating people on results and waxqabad nothing else. This mean our society will eventually be identity less and unite with people on 'results' only!!! this is something everyone can agree on that we unite on results not dividing things that are pointless!!! We will be laughing at the rest of the world divided over t hings that bring no benefits to them basically and we supercede them. The second we go off track though, we will fall into same pits of other civilizations!!!

 

[DR OSMAN]

We will have a society knowing identity politics won't get u anywhere basically. Only results will. They will all run towards differentiating themselves on results which means 10 million people all set on one direction 'results' and whoever can demonstrate it the best is always going to be the winner!!! eventually it will lead to a crumble of all these idealogical crap like parties, political views, tribe, gender, race, nationalism, and these superficial matters!!! it will just crumble away because they can't get anything with that anymore since the society isn't based on that. We will have a team of 10 million football squade basically that is all directed to one 'goal' which is 'results orientation'. Where-as the other football teams in the world will be bickering over this and that, political parties, islamism, nationalism, tribe, races. This will make us basically go to each country and silently take away the things that are 'good and result orientated' and adapt it to our society since our society is set up like this while they bicker away in identity politic crap!!!

We will have doctors, scientists, technologists, engineers all learning their grafts from those countries and bringing it back to ours. Then they will fight over who can add more to it and it's just creates a cycle of progress to keep ticking over and over and our kids will inherit a beautiful crafted system with strong roots and enforcement!!! We will eventually over-run rest of the world and be the torch carrier for a long time

 

[SuldaanGuled]

There is nowhere in the quran where it says to break idols, it says not to worship anything but allah but to break them not a single source!!! This can explain why they never broke them where-ever the early muslims went, not this nonsense you respond with 'number of other reasons'.

Now u shoot yourself in the foot allowing for islamic administrations to get away with what u call 'mismanagement' then complain that in the west you get discriminated upon and the system isn't perfect. It's funny how u apply two different standards dont you think? you won't allow to include 'mismanagement' for the western model, but allow it for the 'islamic model'. Listen it's not even about management, it's about core values. Everywhere there is a people, if they are not in agreement on values that are shared between them, they can never function. U see this in businesses, the first thing is the 'values' of that business, it's culture. If you don't align with their culture, you could bring in 'filth' and destroy the company from within. It's not just businesses, but schools, media, govts, or any sort of shared space between humans.

Yes u got something right. I don't believe the western and muslim systems are built to last operating today are built to last, I brought evidence for that!!! U can see all the different caliphates collapsing over time, u can see all the different western civilizations collapsing also!!! U have to study deeply what made these people great was the core values of their system and it's enforcement, this led to advancement and wealth and once those started to kick in especially the excessive wealth, they forgot about the core values and it's enforcement. Corruption started to come in, bad administration, people started to lose faith, and eventually a slow but predictable crumble either from within or from outside.

It honestly doesn't matter if u have the quran as ur base of system or a constitution, the second the core values are not seen anymore in the society, basic core values that all humans want. Freedom-Equality-Justice, you are on the path of destruction!!! These are not western core values, these are humanity core values. Every human has operated in this fashion since day 1, it wasn't the westerners who created it. They created democracy feeling this 'answers' those core values, which in reality it doesn't.

I don't care what system is in somalia, all I will be looking or is those core values, cause I know that is the only thing that unites people, not the quran, not a language, not a tribe, not a national identity!!! all these are 'identity' politics and identities can change over time and with that comes a collapse of your system but core values I mentioned, that is static regardless of time or era or where-ever humans may be. I could be in a desert riding a camel, or in the jungles of the amazon, or in mecca itself. Everyone wants these core values!!! Why u think the prophet sent his early people to abssyinia? its about core values sxb of a society, all humans yearn for it!!!

Your not trying to create a system that answers these core values which unite people regardless of what their denomination, religion, tribe, race, all this identity politics crap, like the abssyinian king did. Because a society flourishes when the people feel they have those needs answered, they can carry on and move on to progress their country and people rather then be a in perpertual state of war or mistrust and suspicion!!! U want to force your system on top of others which will only lead to a clash in the end which is what is occurring!!!

If u can demonstrate how islamism can fit into our culture, then welcome. If u can't sxb, your pulling on straws and have ulterior motives which maybe whatever it is. Just say this basically. Islamic system does this and does that and then point to the nomads and say look they do this and do that so it will fit into our society!!! nothing else. We need a framework to work from that is agreed before we discuss what system we will adopt. A working framework is something both my eyes and your eyes can see 'PEACE IN THE NOMADIC AREAS'. I can't fake that for u, u see it, i see it, somalis see it. Now lets address how ur system can create that 'oasis' of peace that they enjoy!!! thats all u need to do, other wise its just your 'theory' and i dont buy into theories!!!!

Noone really should care about identity politics, it doesnt bring horumar!!! who cares if someone follows allah or they dont, all u should care about is this person producing benefit for the society. If u hate kuffar so much, stop taking kuffar medicine, using technology, military arms, etc!!! How is it you islamist use everything that the westerner created and criticize them, you shouldnt use anything they create because its from kuffar as you say, it must be bad.

In reality, in somalia I envision where we dont care if ur muslim, christian, atheist. Just respect the constitution and rule of law and demonstrate how u can add 'productivity' to the society, thats all we care about, we are society that is based on 'waxqabad' basically just 'results' not identity bullshit!!! we will become the biggest superpower this world has ever seen since we rose above bullshit that is meaningless and based everything on 'results'

Dont u see what happens when a society is based on core values of humanity, what this can lead too? if everything is based on freedom-equality-justice, it can lead to only differentiating people on results and waxqabad nothing else. This mean our society will eventually be identity less and unite with people on 'results' only!!! this is something everyone can agree on that we unite on results not dividing things that are pointless!!! We will be laughing at the rest of the world divided over t hings that bring no benefits to them basically and we supercede them. The second we go off track though, we will fall into same pits of other civilizations!!!

What are you on about ? i just gave you an example about the idols of ka'bah being destroyed and here you're still asking for more. There's a lot of things which aren't explained in the quran example how to pray etc but are in the hadith laakin both complement one another. Go read about the story of the idols of ka'abah for yourself .

I asked you to list a number of things that democracy can provide which wouldn't be possible in an islamic system, what do you do ? you start critiquing some gulf nations and how their countries aren't going to last etc, what has this go to do with what i asked for.? that's why i brought up the statement about mismanagement so that you realise that it has no bearing on what islam can or can't achieve. I didn't apply different standards simply gave an example of my experience living in the west, i wasn't using it to compare the islamic one that's your interpretation, furthermore i did mention that mismanagement occurs in any society.

If you didn't care what system somalia adopted then you wouldn't be against "political islam" nor would you be advocating for "democracy" despite admitting they both are faulty. Core values, humanity what are they if they aren't based on sound foundations ? empty slogans that serve no benefit at all.You're entitled to your opinions but not facts sidas darteed continue on living your dream. When you manage to create such a society let me know for now i'll rather stick to reality as it is

It's better for you to simply stay away from somali politics as you're going to cause more harm than good, somalia isn't the place where you would want to spread your ideas. Far better people than you have tried and failed. If you aren't muslim iska iloow soomalia

 

[DR OSMAN]

By the way suldan, inquistitve. U can call me gaal all u want, I am not like other muslims who will get emotional about it!!! My islam isn't between u and me, I am not answering to you in judgement day, I really could care less if u see me as a muslim or not!!! So just remember that, ha igu qaldamin with some others who have to 'prove' their muslim to others, me I could care less if u think I am or not. your the last thing on my mind when death comes rolling my way!!!

 

[DR OSMAN]

What are you on about ? i just gave you an example about the idols of ka'bah being destroyed and here you're still asking for more. There's a lot of things which aren't explained in the quran example how to pray etc but are in the hadith laakin both complement one another. Go read about the story of the idols of ka'abah for yourself .

I asked you to list a number of things that democracy can provide which wouldn't be possible in an islamic system, what do you do ? you start critiquing some gulf nations and how their countries aren't going to last etc, what has this go to do with what i asked for.? that's why i brought up the statement about mismanagement so that you realise that it has no bearing on what islam can or can't achieve. I didn't apply different standards simply gave an example of my experience living in the west, i wasn't using it to compare the islamic one that's your interpretation, furthermore i did mention that mismanagement occurs in any society.

If you didn't care what system somalia adopted then you wouldn't be against "political islam" nor would you be advocating for "democracy" despite admitting they both are faulty. Core values, humanity what are they if they aren't based on sound foundations ? empty slogans that serve no benefit at all.You're entitled to your opinions but not facts sidas darteed continue on living your dream. When you manage to create such a society let me know for now i'll rather stick to reality as it is

It's better for you to simply stay away from somali politics as you're going to cause more harm than good, somalia isn't the place where you would want to spread your ideas. Far better people than you have tried and failed. If you aren't muslim iska iloow soomalia

I will let somalis judge what they can see with their eyes 'the peace in nomadic areas' and your 'idealogy' with no proof where it's working!!! people are not simple minded like you sxb, we want proof in this day of reasoning, the days of just sayin the quran said this isn't enough!!!

 

[DR OSMAN]

Islam doesn't unite anyone today, it causes more frictions and divisions then ever before, that's why it's best to be personal religion. It's about when u die and meet god, thats it. When we are outside drinking from that ceel biyood, don't bring your idealogical crap to use as a tool to 'silence or conquer' others. We will have a simple rule, ur free to think what u want, pray how u want, but u will never get anything in terms of rewards just because your a muslim or from a certain tribe, now drink out of that well of water just like the other nomads and move the f*ck on sxb!!! u dont want that soo ma aha, i say wipe u off the face of the earth as a trangressor. It doesn't matter if your using islam as disguise. Shaydhanka will always come in the disguise of religion!!!

Your not proving how islamic system will work in somalia your just critiquing me, its called destructive politics as u cant demonstrate how your idea is better!!! Untill u do sxb, there is no point really going these continous circles, its just constant trolling. If u dont accept freedom which islam teaches free will, and equality and justice. Then u simply want to conquer others and u should just make ur intentions clear without going into disguises and being a hypocrit!!!

Everyone has to survive, that is what we all share as human beings if u dont umada ka dhex bax waxad tahay nin iska rabo rabsho. Gaal, Muslim, Atheist, Democrat, Centralist, Federalist, it doesnt matter u r, u all need to drink that water from the well to survive just like the nomads need to drink it, thats why they rose above idealogical crap and talked REAL and said if we dont we wont survive and everyone just ends up dead

 

[SuldaanGuled]

By the way suldan, inquistitve. U can call me gaal all u want, I am not like other muslims who will get emotional about it!!! My islam isn't between u and me, I am not answering to you in judgement day, I really could care less if u see me as a muslim or not!!! So just remember that, ha igu qaldamin with some others who have to 'prove' their muslim to others, me I could care less if u think I am or not. your the last thing on my mind when death comes rolling my way!!!

Being a muslim isn't something i or anyone else has defined it's what Allah has defined it to be, if you don't ascribe to what Allah has ordained then that's your personal choice laakin don't try to mislead nor impose on us what you're convinced of as being correct. Why should we leave what Allah has obligated on us to do for your understanding ? a mere human claiming to have come up with a better system than the one Allah ordained, do you realise how messed up this is ? . Keep your believes to yourself as without a doubt they deviate from that which the people of somalia believe in.

We're slaves to Allah not to human beings

 

[DR OSMAN]

Suldan Guleed, if u cant see that the earth is the only thing that unites humans and everything else is going to cause friction and division, I can't help u. I just will warn muslims from people like u as the shaydhan main goal is to see the death of humans and break into nonsensical things and forget theyre first goal was to survive because if they dont survive they can't even worship god!!! Nice results for u

 

[SuldaanGuled]

I will let somalis judge what they can see with their eyes 'the peace in nomadic areas' and your 'idealogy' with no proof where it's working!!! people are not simple minded like you sxb, we want proof in this day of reasoning, the days of just sayin the quran said this isn't enough!!!

Go on and tell the average geeljire about your ideas of a gaal being equal to a muslim and see how they'll respond. It's only those who follow their desires and are corrupted by them that say the Quran isn't enough

 

[DR OSMAN]

Being a muslim isn't something i or anyone else has defined it's what Allah has defined it to be, if you don't ascribe to what Allah has ordained then that's your personal choice laakin don't try to mislead nor impose on us what you're convinced of as being correct. Why should we leave what Allah has obligated on us to do for your understanding ? a mere human claiming to have come up with a better system than the one Allah ordained, do you realise how messed up this is ? . Keep your believes to yourself as without a doubt they deviate from that which the people of somalia believe in.

We're slaves to Allah not to human beings

Your a muslim for society sxb, lets not kid ourselves because i can tell the one who are criticize others as not muslims, they trying to prove themselves to society!!! go away now sxb your trolling