Dude Gets Called a “Loser” By His Wife After Retiring Early, Financially Free and Independent! (Yikes!)

[Inquisitive_]

That’s a cop out response and you know it. I was explaining why I can’t take your divorce rants seriously. Men and women with regards to divorce are not equal and fact you’re not prepared to face is that there are no Islamic courts to reign men in. Muslim Men in the West whether you want to accept have all the privileges of talaq but none of the scrutiny that an Islamic court provides.



You can’t even accept the facts. There are hardly any courts in the West, wives are reliant on male talaq. How on earth can you then act like women are worse than men with regards to divorce in the West?

If a woman can’t go to Qadi since there are hardly any in the UK, has to wait for you to let her go or her family have to beg and coerce on her behalf, how is it soley on women? The issue is that I never said women are angels, this is where misunderstanding stem from? I oppose your argument that women are mainly responsible. Hence why my stance has been pro-women since I’m showing you the other side. That you so blindly miss despite being so obvious.

I can easily do that, but I need you to honestly engage with my post first since it wasn’t about acquitting all women of blame, it was about how much of a victim complex a Somali male must have to think most of the issue of divorce is on the women.

You need to remember we are not gaalo, we can’t ’file’ for divorce nor are Somalis beholden to UK or American court of law hence under such a system a Muslim woman regardless of background is literally operating in a lawless
and when someone who is the more vulnerable party has no law, how can you the put the blame squarely on them? That’s my point.

But that’s what you do? Unlike you I don’t believe people are soothsayers. You’ve always said whenever a man ends up a loser and a woman has to divorce you say stuff like Somali women are allowed to choose and she chose that. Can you see how misogyny can be irrational. Now that we’re discussing male victims, all of a sudden we can’t say he chose wrong? Do not worry my brother, I am not like that. I don’t believe men and women can predict everything. I’ve always said marriage is like Russian Roulette.

I have a lot of critique of my gender. Many women are narcs, many women spend their days gossiping on the phone. I’ve seen silly types who want to act single and roam the streets like they’re homeless. Do not worry, I’ve seen those types of women with my own eyes and have seen ones make the lives of certain relatives hell.

Spoiler

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It is relevant. I know several Somali women still married and not able to get a divorce. Several, I even have one in my family and no one in my family can talk sense to him, that guy doesn’t care about ceeb, half of the tool have spoken to him. He has simply ran away to Xamar and now my aunt likes the life of a married single mother. To say this is irrelevant to Somalis is silly. The Somali community is the biggest victim to a lack of courts, half of these men should be compelled to pay back payments or face imprisonment.


No, of course not. I don’t believe it’s 100% a male problem not at all. Women have their fair share and many I even know I downright terrible and are near enough abusing their mates. But my issue is that you’re not seeing the elephant in the room and Wallahi if were to come to the ME in which men have to pay like 30k in back payments for not providing or risk imprisonment, you’d be singing a different tune.

This is a good start but I need more from you then this, not isolated cases, I need the common GENERAL ones, what are their MAJOR negative contributions to the collapse of the family and how it can be fixed.

Your arguments about divorce being tougher for female's, we thank Allah for that, it's even in the Quran, and we all understand the wisdom behind this, and many rational female's will tell you that all marriages would have collapsed if there was equal rights in that including my own wife.

However you are super imposing a problem that exist with the Desi's and Arab's onto Somali's, this is why I stressed lets keep it strictly to our communities and talk about <40 age group.

We both know this culture of refusing to give divorce to a Xaalimo that wants it doesn't exist, every case that I have come across or that I have heard from community leaders including Xaalimo's themselves, they simply force it on the male when she wants it.

She does this by simply leaving the house after dispute, which if you know our DEEN is HARAM unless there is extenuating circumstances that is Life & Death, SHE IS NOT ALLOWED TO LEAVE, its also HARAM for the husband to kick her out even if he DIVORCES HER, these are MAJOR sins and in the majority of these cases its the Female's leaving the HOUSE by her own volition over a dispute without any divorce being pronounced.

I cannot stress this to you more, this violation of the DEEN is what makes RECONCILIATION impossible, once family members are involved, its OVER, it's WHY its forbidden to LEAVE, even in the case of DIVORCE until the Iddah period expires, any romance within the iddah period they are BACK together and no one knows about their issues.

The specific case you speak of is a rare isolated event, the Qadi stuff is no different and it mainly affects other communities not OURS, and you know this, so I don't understand why you made this the centre piece of your argument.

I know community leaders both Males and Female's who offer matrimonial services, as well as others who regularly try to resolve disputes, this argument your making that Xaalimo's are denied Divorce only exists in your mind, yes you will always have isolated incident here and there, but its not the NORM, and you know its not the NORM in our community.

Even in those isolated cases which you happen to know off the DIVORCE is automatic 4 month period without even QADI, I thought you already knew this, so there is no leaving her hanging.

Spoiler: Automatic Divorce

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The second point you made was about child care, I have no respect for a man that doesn't look after his children, especially more so in third world nations were there is no social safety net. (unless he is incapable financially and is poor himself)

That's not the case in the west for our generation and we both know this, the sum is deducted from his pay check if he works, I know many males for whom this is done through either court order and more out of their own volition that pay, if he is wealthy that is 50% of his assets going to her, all the power is in her hand in the diaspora.

The only time she looses out is if he is broke or some self-employed person that engages in tax fraud with no assets, even then the state gets involved and helps her out.

Its interesting because even tough I have no respect for these men, when confronted the sole reason he refuses to pay is because he didn't want the divorce, it was forced upon him, and he doesn't believe the money will go to his children.

Now I need your proper critique on your gender, what role do they pay and what are the percentages of blame you place on them for this destruction.

 

[Angelina]

Your arguments about divorce being tougher for female's, we thank Allah for that, it's even in the Quran, and we all understand the wisdom behind this, and many rational female's will tell you that all marriages would have collapsed if there was equal rights in that including my own wife.

You’ve missed the point completely. What you do not understand is that in the West men have the full privilege of uttering Talaq, no Islamic courts for women to file and no accountability for men by Islamic legal measures. Marriage is a legal union. People can draw up contracts and women don’t have that privilege in a gaalo nation. They are actually in the long run deprived of their Islamic rights.

Islam put divorce more so in the hands of a man, but did not make women into slaves who are trapped and that only leave if they cause enough ruckus which is what you’re criticizing about but for Somali women in the West who have no legitimate Islamic avenues for divorce that’s the path they’ll have to take if they want to leave a bad union.

Islamically a woman can literally annul a marriage via Khula or fasaq. Women can hardly do this here. Now they have to force a man’s hand and the fact that you can’t see this is a problem. She shouldn’t when to leave her home and cause a scene because she’s been trapped like a slave because she’s been deprived of Islamic courts.

My point has never been equal rights.

However you are super imposing a problem that exist with the Desi's and Arab's onto Somali's, this is why I stressed lets keep it strictly to our communities and talk about <40 age group.

No, I’m not. All the cases I’ve outlined I know these people personally. That’s a cope out argument and also betrays contradiction. You’re implying that ALL Somali men divorce Willy nilly are quick to issue talaq. So surely that works against you doesn’t it?

We both know this culture of refusing to give divorce to a Xaalimo that wants it doesn't exist, every case that I have come across or that I have heard from community leaders including Xaalimo's themselves, they simply force it on the male when she wants it.

Wallahi, I now cannot officially take you serious. Allah is my witness and I know several with my own aunt being one of the victims. You need to understand that some men are abusive and will not give it to a woman even whilst hating her because she knows that’s what she really wants. In those cases, the husband even leaves the country or will literally move out and still not give



If you truly knew the ins and outs you’d know this.

She does this by simply leaving the house after dispute, which if you know our DEEN is HARAM unless there is extenuating circumstances that is Life & Death, SHE IS NOT ALLOWED TO LEAVE, its also HARAM for the husband to kick her out even if he DIVORCES HER, these are MAJOR sins and in the majority of these cases its the Female's leaving the HOUSE by her own volition over a dispute without any divorce being pronounced.

So with no Islamic courts, please explain how a female can get a divorce without forcing a man’s hand?

If a woman no longer wants to be with her husband like he was verbally abusive? Cheating? Or being terrible all around, what is she meant to do? If she was in an Islamic country, she could start court proceedings to show him she’s serious. What can she do in the West? What man will divorce a woman knowing that she is still in the house and being around him? Do you think women are slaves that have to just sit and hope he’s nice enough to let her go? Why are you not seeing the lack of legal recourse and isn’t it funny you never thought how denying people of their legal rights causes issues?

Can you not see how no Islamic courts have put Somali women in a rock and hard place? This is no man’s law. Now you can see how a state of lawlessness with regards to marriage can easily be oppressive to women and will force them to leave their homes? You want Muslim women to abide strictly by Islamic law whilst having no way to actually partition for their rights? You want Somali women to be held accountable for that but who is holding men accountable? How is it fair to entrap women and not give them any legal rights? Do you think Allah is oppressive? There is a reason why Allah has given women avenues that have effectively been cut off from Somali women and Muslim women in general in the West.

I cannot stress this to you more, this violation of the DEEN is what makes RECONCILIATION impossible, once family members are involved, its OVER, it's WHY its forbidden to LEAVE, even in the case of DIVORCE until the Iddah period expires, any romance within the iddah period they are BACK together and no one knows about their issues.

See above.

I know community leaders both Males and Female's who offer matrimonial services, as well as others who regularly try to resolve disputes, this argument your making that Xaalimo's are denied Divorce only exists in your mind, yes you will always have isolated incident here and there, but its not the NORM, and you know its not the NORM in our community.

Wallahi they are and I know plenty. I know a lot so the fact that your are saying that makes it clear to me that you don’t really know the ins and outs of your own community and why it will be a headache continuing this. You even mistakenly took a fatwa and misinterpreted and told yourself that a man can automatically get a divorce after 4 moths if a man leaves. Your lack of understanding of Islamic law is concerning since I look at things from a legal approach.

That's not the case in the west for our generation and we both know this, the sum is deducted from his pay check if he works, I know many males for whom this is done through either court order and more out of their own volition that pay, if he is wealthy that is 50% of his assets going to her, all the power is in her hand in the diaspora.

I don’t believe you. Because it’s evident you don’t even look up data when it comes to Alimony. Less than 5% of gaalo women get 50% of a man’s wealth let alone Somalis who are working class with the other half being professionals. Working women do not get alimony in the UK contrary to popular belief and Somalis being Muslim do not ask for alimony with most not even registering their marriage. You should know it’s common knowledge for Somalis to NOT register marriage. Most do so to get a council house, even some professionals resort to this due to how expensive London is. Hence again you’re using the life of white upper class couples to beat over Somali women. Thats incredibly unjust brother.

Generally, Somali women on average do not even register their marriages unless it’s the case of an husband bringing his wife to the West and the UK child support is less than 500 on average. Check stats. Many Somali men are uber drivers and have their own business. They can easily doctor their payment to less than 50 pounds. Come one are you being for real here?

The only time she looses out is if he is broke or some self-employed person that engages in tax fraud with no assets, even then the state gets involved and helps her out.

Most end up losing out. The UK doesn’t even proper punish lack of payment like they do where I am. When was the last time you heard about a man going to court for lack of child support payments in the UK, especially the Somali community?

Child support via courts is not common in London. I know that much. Most decent guys who provide even post divorce have an understanding with their ex-wives and don’t even need to resort to child support. The man pays out of his own accord.

Its interesting because even tough I have no respect for these men, when confronted the sole reason he refuses to pay is because he didn't want the divorce, it was forced upon him, and he doesn't believe the money will go to his children.

Also, a man that’s the guilty party will never want to divorce. If he cheated, if he abused her, if he was a bum and never helped her, why on earth will be want a divorce? Also, if there are no courts, apart from leaving the house and forcing his hand, how does a Somali woman get a divorce? That’s what I find so interesting, you criticize their methods but cannot acknowledge how the lack of legal rights is the cause of this.

Since when should divorce ONLY be based on a man’s wants? In that situation no abused woman would ever get divorced.

Divorces in which a man wants it or it’s mutual is when the man has also had enough of this wife’s behavior as well.

This should be something evident.

Now I need your proper critique on your gender, what role do they pay and what are the percentages of blame you place on them for this destruction.

I have already criticized my gender but what’s the point when you will literally deny something I know to be true and I’ve seen time and time again. I’ve hardly see you critique men in this regard apart from coming for men who don’t provide. That’s it.

 

[Angelina]

@Inquisitive_

Brother, you’ve misread the fatwas in your attempt to argue with me. The husband leaving the wife for 4 months does not mean automatic divorce, she the wife needs a Qadi and this is made clear:

The fact that you didn’t even know this and other points you’ve made it clear you’re not very versed on divorce fiqhi and I’m looking at this from a highly legal perspective and how lack of legal representation for women who are the vulnerable party causes issues like women having to leave the premise and all sorts since there are literally NO qadis in the West and most Asian Khula Divorce centers are corrupt and expensive.

You also know that child support in our community ain’t something a woman can force. Most men can easily doctor their earnings and many Somalis are indeed self employed/Uber drivers.

 

[Sophisticate]

I do not like the idea of disrespecting a spouse. I have not even called someone I disliked a loser. Those habits are likely a form of escapism. An exhausting and soul crushing job may do that. He may also be clinically depressed. Often work gives people some sense of purpose and having a transition like that can be jarring. I say encourage him to get outside and get some hobbies. Generally, when you help others you feel better. He could also benefit from joining a men's support group.