Effects of Warfarin/tPa [important]

[Espaa_]

What does the percentage mean? like the drop of 40% to 11%. Is it the level of VKORC1? or does it mean that 11% of the population have the variant.

every human has VKORC1 however there are haplotypes of this gene. The original human unmutated haplotype from the time of the first homo sapien is called the “wild type” which is VKORC1*1

VKORC1*1 = 95% in subsaharan africans

however this gene has mutations to it that happened as humans started to migrate out of africa.

Somalis only have the “wild type” at a disgustingly low level of only 11% which doesnt make sense because europeans have it at 40% or less.

Its actually the lowest and somalis have VKORC1*2 at the highest followed by VKORC1*3 and then VKORC1*4 with the latter being very under researched as its a minority.

I was so confused as to how we do not have at least 50% frequency of the wild type gene and why we carry the mutated version at extremely high rates even though it most likely mutated outside of africa

it means out of all the people they tested [96 somalis] thats the frequency of how many people tested for it. And we can also put it on the population as well as it most likely reflects it

 

[Espaa_]

@giire12
In order from highest to smallest:

SOMALIS:

VKORC1*2 (43%)
VKORC1*3 (32%)
VKORC1*4 (14%)
VKORC1*1 (wild type) (11%)

EUROPEANS:

VKORC1*1 (wild type) (48%)
VKORC1*2 (40%)
VKORC1*3 (10%)
VKORC1*4 (2%)

SUB SAHARAN AFRICANS:

VKORC1*1 (wild type) 95%
VKORC1*2 (<5%)
VKORC1*3 (<2%)
VKORC1*4 (<2%)

EAST ASIANS:

VKORC1*2 (90%)
VKORC1*1 (wild type) 10%
VKORC1*3 (1%)
VKORC1*4 (1%)

VKORC1*4 is rare everywhere except in cushitic related peoples. The next group after us are north africans at around 2-5%. After that, its middle eastern groups.

 

[giire12]

Okay, if i could add to your research, could there be a random fluctuations in gene frequencies as in genetic drifits. It could explain the reducation in VKORC1*1 frequency. If few VKORC1*2 became dominant due to marriage patterns, the overall wild-type percentage would drop over generations. Mashallah your expert in pharmacology can help many somalis understand how drugs can effect our body. Majority of the drugs that came to Hargeisa is from Pakistan and India. Their drug could be design specifically for their genatic adaptation that is different to our environment adaptation.

Was there any random statistical sampling done within our population (different clans, regions, coastal vs inland, etc.). Does the sample allow us to estimate the variant frequencies in the entire somali population with a confidence level of 95%. If these research are available than you can use statistical tools such as null hypothesis, chi-square test and t-test for comparing mean allele frequencies across regions and hopefully see the level of biases of the research studies.

@giire12

SOMALIS:

VKORC1*2 (43%)
VKORC1*3 (32%)
VKORC1*4 (14%)
VKORC1*1 (wild type) (11%)

EUROPEANS:

VKORC1*1 (wild type) (48%)
VKORC1*2 (40%)
VKORC1*3 (10%)
VKORC1*4 (2%)

SUB SAHARAN AFRICANS:

VKORC1*1 (wild type) 95%
VKORC1*2 (<5%)
VKORC1*3 (<2%)
VKORC1*4 (<2%)

EAST ASIANS:

VKORC1*2 (90%)
VKORC1*1 (wild type) 10%
VKORC1*3 (1%)
VKORC1*4 (1%)

VKORC1*4 is rare everywhere except in somalis.

This is an interesting topic, cause the only explaination is that we have mixed with Europeans and East Asians post back migration, but many jamactul DNA experts in here will striaght away reject the idea. Also you said Natufians have the wild type variant above 95% (including the population of sub-saharan Africans). What are the results for other horn-african population who have higher Eurasian than us, does their study show similarities?

 

[Espaa_]

Okay, if i could add to your research, could there be a random fluctuations in gene frequencies as in genetic drifits. It could explain the reducation in VKORC1*1 frequency. If few VKORC1*2 became dominant due to marriage patterns, the overall wild-type percentage would drop over generations. Mashallah your expert in pharmacology can help many somalis understand how drugs can effect our body. Majority of the drugs that came to Hargeisa is from Pakistan and India. Their drug could be design specifically for their genatic adaptation that is different to our environment adaptation.

Was there any random statistical sampling done within our population (different clans, regions, coastal vs inland, etc.). Does the sample allow us to estimate the variant frequencies in the entire somali population with a confidence level of 95%. If these research are available than you can use statistical tools such as null hypothesis, chi-square test and t-test for comparing mean allele frequencies across regions and hopefully see the level of biases of the research studies.



This is an interesting topic, cause the only explaination is that we have mixed with Europeans and East Asians post back migration, but many jamactul DNA experts in here will striaght away reject the idea. Also you said Natufians have the wild type variant above 95% (including the population of sub-saharan Africans). What are the results for other horn-african population who have higher Eurasian than us, does their study show similarities?

According to the actual paper it was done in Puntland

The test was objectively carried out using Chi squared at P<0.05 so its very very accurate

A proper study would need to be carried out across Darood, Hawiye, Raxanwayn and Isaaq subclans because it doesnt make sense as to how (im assuming majeerteen here) is scoring extremely high amounts of both VKORC1*2 but also at the same time VKORC1*4. One is to do with natufians but the latter doesnt have anything to do with natufians or even nilotes. Im going to put my money on its something to do with Ancestral East African.

Also you are right, genetic drift plays a role especially somalis as we were semi isolated. But the drop from 45% to 11% is too sharp to suggest otherwise and there has to be other factors were involved such as natural acceleration. This could be due to dietary patterns, diseases or environment. In this case chatgpt told me [take it with a grain of salt] the correlation between high vitamin K, our diet and how it affects blood clotting and bleeding risks.

in the study we are told ethiopian semitic speakers and other cushites such as oromos scores were varied but were extremely similar to ours

we need more research man

@The Oponian Guild @TheLand were there any variations in the diet of majeerteens different from other clans? Historically were there any diseases that were widespread within the peninsula and could you explain the environment of the north east. I know it says its dry but I dont think it was always dry and semi arid. Are there any other clans that live in bosaso?

 

[TheLand]

According to the actual paper it was done in Puntland
View attachment 360086
The test was objectively carried out using Chi squared at P<0.05 so its very very accurate

A proper study would need to be carried out across Darood, Hawiye, Raxanwayn and Isaaq subclans because it doesnt make sense as to how (im assuming majeerteen here) is scoring extremely high amounts of both VKORC1*2 but also at the same time VKORC1*4. One is to do with natufians but the latter doesnt have anything to do with natufians or even nilotes. Im going to put my money on its something to do with Ancestral East African.

Also you are right, genetic drift plays a role especially somalis as we were semi isolated. But the drop from 45% to 11% is too sharp to suggest otherwise and there has to be other factors were involved such as natural acceleration. This could be due to dietary patterns, diseases or environment. In this case chatgpt told me [take it with a grain of salt] the correlation between high vitamin K, our diet and how it affects blood clotting and bleeding risks.

in the study we are told ethiopian semitic speakers and other cushites such as oromos scores were varied but were extremely similar to ours

we need more research man

@The Oponian Guild @TheLand were there any variations in the diet of majeerteens different from other clans? Historically were there any diseases that were widespread within the peninsula and could you explain the environment of the north east. I know it says its dry but I dont think it was always dry and semi arid. Are there any other clans that live in bosaso?

I don’t think it’s unique to MJ and I think you are missing the bigger picture. You are correct that it has to do with vitamin K, but only in so far as it allows it to be recycled in the body and thus enhances blood clotting. This improves survival odds for small injuries and childbirth, and as a result gets passed down at higher rates. I have heard anecdotes of Somali pastoralists being cut open with spears and walking 40 km with their intestines in their arms and going to someone who could push them back in and literally sow them back up. This seems to explain that atleast partly. I would be shocked if this is unique to any tribe, especially with the rate of intermarriage. It seems like a survival mechanism for hardy cushitic nomads.

 

[Espaa_]

I don’t think it’s unique to MJ and I think you are missing the bigger picture. You are correct that it has to do with vitamin K, but only in so far as it allows it to be recycled in the body and thus enhances blood clotting. This improves survival odds for small injuries and childbirth, and as a result gets passed down at higher rates. I have heard anecdotes of Somali pastoralists being cut open with spears and walking 40 km with their intestines in their arms and going to someone who could push them back in and literally sow them back up. This seems to explain that atleast partly. I would be shocked if this is unique to any tribe, especially with the rate of intermarriage. It seems like a survival mechanism for hardy cushitic nomads.

Took a look at the abstract again and you are right. It does mention this:

cushites really had it tough man wth. But you are right I completely did miss the point and started looking into tribes forgetting these mutations are thousands upon thousands of years old. I thought there wouldve been a difference in clans in all of somaliweyn not just limited to MJ as we have pastoralists, agropastoralists, farmers and blacksmiths and hunters and many many more with different eating habits and way of life. I wouldve thought due to selection pressure *1 wild type would be found more in the south.

i do genuinely think its going to level out due to us leaving our pastoralist roots behind slowly and moving toward cities. European nomads started to mix with steppe farmers and thats when *4 started to die out

anyway im looking too deep into this, the point of all of this is just to look more into pharmaceuticals and somali genetics and its compatibility and just to open up discussions on stuff like this. But yh i think imma end this for now my head hurts

 

[TheLand]

Took a look at the abstract again and you are right. It does mention this:

View attachment 360088

cushites really had it tough man wth. But you are right I completely did miss the point and started looking into tribes forgetting these mutations are thousands upon thousands of years old. I thought there wouldve been a difference in clans in all of somaliweyn not just limited to MJ as we have pastoralists, agropastoralists, farmers and blacksmiths and hunters and many many more with different eating habits and way of life. I wouldve thought due to selection pressure *1 wild type would be found more in the south.

i do genuinely think its going to level out due to us not leaving our pastoralist roots behind slowly and moving toward cities. European nomads started to mix with steppe farmers and thats when *4 started to die out

anyway im looking too deep into this, the point of all of this is just to look more into pharmaceuticals and somali genetics and its compatibility and just to open up discussions on stuff like this. But yh i think imma end this for now my head hurts

No you are correct the blood clotting stuff is what really matters. Somalis need to know the effects of these drugs are unique to us and can be dangerous. I doubt most physicians and prescribers are aware of this.

 

[Espaa_]

No you are correct the blood clotting stuff is what really matters. Somalis need to know the effects of these drugs are unique to us and can be dangerous. I doubt most physicians and prescribers are aware of this.

Genuinely if I had power Id push for all elderly or immunocompromised somalis and other ethnic minorities to get mandatory health screenings because we tend to be at a higher risk for death in every single aspect of healthcare compared to our white counterparts because every report and study is based off of them. Not even just stroke meds but rates of autism, type 1 diabetes, different types of cancers and mental health needs to be studied more in our genomes

 

[TheLand]

Genuinely if I had power Id push for all elderly or immunocompromised somalis and other ethnic minorities to get mandatory health screenings because we tend to be at a higher risk for death in every single aspect of healthcare compared to our white counterparts because every report and study is based off of them. Not even just stroke meds but rates of autism, type 1 diabetes, different types of cancers and mental health needs to be studied more in our genomes

We need Somali specific datasets on all this stuff. It’s probably possible to do on our own but I’m not sure the trust in the community is there.

 

[Nur_]

@giire12
In order from highest to smallest:

SOMALIS:

VKORC1*2 (43%)
VKORC1*3 (32%)
VKORC1*4 (14%)
VKORC1*1 (wild type) (11%)

EUROPEANS:

VKORC1*1 (wild type) (48%)
VKORC1*2 (40%)
VKORC1*3 (10%)
VKORC1*4 (2%)

SUB SAHARAN AFRICANS:

VKORC1*1 (wild type) 95%
VKORC1*2 (<5%)
VKORC1*3 (<2%)
VKORC1*4 (<2%)

EAST ASIANS:

VKORC1*2 (90%)
VKORC1*1 (wild type) 10%
VKORC1*3 (1%)
VKORC1*4 (1%)

VKORC1*4 is rare everywhere except in cushitic related peoples. The next group after us are north africans at around 2-5%. After that, its middle eastern groups.

How do east asians handle this gene when it comes to treating people? They also have low amounts of the wild type, though they aren't as diverse as us.

 

[Nur_]

Genuinely if I had power Id push for all elderly or immunocompromised somalis and other ethnic minorities to get mandatory health screenings because we tend to be at a higher risk for death in every single aspect of healthcare compared to our white counterparts because every report and study is based off of them. Not even just stroke meds but rates of autism, type 1 diabetes, different types of cancers and mental health needs to be studied more in our genomes

To make it even worse, most studies around sub saharan africans is based on people who don't have eurasian admixture like us. Even the medical science around black people will fail us unless we invest in our own genetic studies.

 

[Espaa_]

How do east asians handle this gene when it comes to treating people? They also have low amounts of the wild type, though they aren't as diverse as us.

Fortunately for them they do not carry the warfarin resistence allele Asp36Tyr. However in somalis it peaks up to 17% which is the highest of any ethnicity. Its sad because if a somali was to fall and have a stroke, the first thing a doctor would do as administer both tpa and warfarin not knowing that a good % of us will not react to the medication and most likely will end up in death if its severe enough.

It goes like this. Wild type is okay meaning you administer normal amount. *2 means you have to administer less warfarin and *3 and *4 you administer the least warfarin as the body will react to it much more efficiently.

however with the mutations comes limitations. Certain alleles in *2 can give you a higher risk for dementia and Alzheimers whereas *3 and *4 is so rare that scientists havent really tested it yet. However in Somalis because we are so diverse compared to other ethnicities we also have Asp36Tyr the most out of all the other ethnicities.