Ethiopia to take stake in Port of Djibouti, its trade gateway -state media

[anonimo]

My point was they aren't a coehsive clan with common founder like they claim to be, sure the shegaad lineages may be smaller in number, the point remains they are a confederation just like the Isaaq, Hawiye etc. Just because it is codifed in Xeer doesn't change the facts.

That is where you are wrong, they are not a confederation, genetically speaking or Xeer wise. They differentiate between those who are Ciise By Blood (Dhalad) and those who are Ciise by Xeer. What really matters is if those that are clearly identified as Ciise are not Ciise genetically; now then they would be a confederation.

As for Hawiye, how are they a confederation? If you are referring to the identification of non-Hawiye clans as Hawiye then you got it wrong. The non-Hawiye Samaale clans such as the Xawaadle (Meyle Samaale) and Gaaljecel (Saransoor Gardheere Samaale) are not part of the Hawiye clan structure but are classified as Hawiye in the 4.5 system etc because it is mutually beneficial to the Hawiye and associate Samaale clans. The Hawiye boost their numbers/influence whilst the other Samaale clans acquire more influence than they would as stand-alone clans.

 

[Cumar]

That is where you are wrong, they are not a confederation, genetically speaking or Xeer wise. They differentiate between those who are Ciise By Blood (Dhalad) and those who are Ciise by Xeer. What really matters is if those that are clearly identified as Ciise are not Ciise genetically; now then they would be a confederation.

As for Hawiye, how are they a confederation? If you are referring to the identification of non-Hawiye clans as Hawiye then you got it wrong. The non-Hawiye Samaale clans such as the Xawaadle and Gaaljecel are not part of the Hawiye clan structure but are classified as Hawiye in the 4.5 system etc because it is mutually beneficial to the Hawiye and associate Samaale clans. The Hawiye boost their numbers whilst the other Samaale clans acquire more influence than if they were stand alone clans.

I don't think you read the source I posted. The shegaad clans in Ciise are allegedly of Toljecle Isaaq origin and admitted by Ciise clan members themselves as such. That is why they are a confederation.

"In particular the Wardiiq, in whose line the office of Sultan (Ugaas) for the clan descends, are admitted by some 'Iise to be of Habar Tol Ja'lo origin." Clearly they aren't genetically Ciise.

 

[anonimo]

I don't think you read the source I posted. The shegaad clans in Ciise are allegedly of Toljecle Isaaq origin and admitted by Ciise clan members themselves as such. That is why they are a confederation.

'Soo Raac' in Somali means that one is not from the clan but is a attached to the clan. The integrity of the clan itself is not jeopardised in the ingenious Ciise Xeer system.

In contrast, some Somali clans have not made this differentiation making it hard to detect who the adopted members are without resorting to DNA!

 

[World]

Lol you are still comparing Djibouti to Somaliland.

62 year life expectancy? So much for recognition if that is all you achieved. Everyone knows the poorest slums in Somali lands are located in your open air brothel.

I'd be salty too if unrecognized countries were catching up and about to eat my lunch kkk.

Like I said, you are dealing with FKD vet here. I am more than with to go 40 pages exposing the afar garacs for what they truly are.

Keep ducking this work though

You don't even know your own history, Ciise are the fakest clan confederation, even your own Ugaas is not of halaal birth. Langaab foqol Langaab.

Habar Jeclo living all the way that far north west? Maybe they truly do have a Habesha mother. All Somalis seemed to have lived everywhere. Hawiye live in Harar as well.

 

[Cumar]

'Soo Raac' in Somali means that one is not from the clan but is a attached to the clan. The integrity of the clan itself is not jeopardised in the ingenious Ciise Xeer system.

In contrast, some Somali clans have not made this differentiation making it hard to detect who the adopted members are without resorting to DNA!

@anonimo, Bro if you have 3 entire subclans who are allegedly Toljecle, then I don't see how it isn't a confederation. It doesn't matter on how small a scale it occured. Genetically they are a confederation since all the subclans don't descend from one common man, even though Xeer wise they all may be treated equally.

If you are implying that most major clans other than Dir did not distinguish between their shegaads and their genuine clan members in their Xeers I take your point.

 

[.279]

'Soo Raac' in Somali means that one is not from the clan but is a attached to the clan. The integrity of the clan itself is not jeopardised in the ingenious Ciise Xeer system.

In contrast, some Somali clans have not made this differentiation making it hard to detect who the adopted members are without resorting to DNA!

Thank you! That's all I'm saying. We know whos who and they don't

 

[Cognitivedissonance]

In this interview jaale Siad barre may Allah be pleased with him tried to remove the french troops in djbouti while demanding the french pay reparations for their long colonialisation of djbouti and look how the somalidiid Ismail cumar geele the somalidiid defends french military presence in djbouti.


Cumar geele is asked do you see Somali weyn ever uniting he responds by saying the day ethiopia Eritrea and Somalia join as one state is the day djbouti will also unite with them to form one nation.

Ismail cumar geele concocted irirism and planned for Somalia destruction by turning hawiye and Isaac against darood so djbouti wouldn’t have no competition when it came to their ports since that their only main source of revenue.

 

[anonimo]

Thank you. That's all I'm saying. We know who's who and they don't.

Actually bro, hold back a bit when criticising the paternal lineage of Isaaqs as you share a relatively recent paternal ancestor with large sections of them. Some are your Blood bro.

I ain't Ciise by the way.

@anonimo, Bro if you have 3 entire subclans who are allegdly Toljecle, then I don't see how it isn't a confederation. It doesn't matter on how small a scale it occured.

If you are implying that most major clans other than Dir did not distinguish between their shegaads and their genuine clan members in their Xeers I take your point.

It ain't three, your own source does not even make that claim bro. Only Wardik, according to that one source, are Habar Jeclo.

More importantly, why are you ignoring the fact that 'Soo Raac' clearly identifies one as not being a blood member of the clan. Thus, the authenticity of the clan's lineage is not in doubt. Allow that shit man!

Secondly, I am not making a point about Dir at all, I am making a point about only Ciise Madoobe in this instance.

 

[Factz]

The Ciise are unique among Somalis in having a codified clan structure. There are academic papers which verify the purity of their lineage. Check the peer reviewed papers on the y-dna of Djibouti and Dire Dawa Somalis; they were overwhelmingly haplogroup T-M184

Their Xeer system was created so as to prevent intra-clan conflict among the Dalad Ciise hence why the smallest clan was given the Ugaas title. This was done for purely pragmatic reasons, not out of 'Langaabnimo' because the Dalad Ciise account for around 90% of the clan's population. Not many million plus clans have such a high level of authenticity.

It was actually the Ciise who used to do most of the raiding and it is not surprising considering the ferocious reputation that they traditionally have among Somalis. The Ciise would not have reached the Awash River and expanded beyond Dire Dawa if they were meek.

Moreover, in the First Footsteps in East Africa, The Habar Awal were even noted as teaming up with the Habar Gerhajis to counter the Ciise threat.

Are you dumb? Jibril Abokor the largest sub clan of SM use to raid Issa often and defeat them on the coast. Heck, Jibril Abokor forced Issa to submit tribute after they captured Zeila long ago.

I mean Jibril Abokor colonized Awdal and defeated Gadabursi militia stooges of Siad Barre and Issa militia group that were loyal to Djibouti and tried to annex Zeila to Djibouti and were also defeated by Jibril Abokor militia group called 99 division which is the largest SNM branch in western Somaliland.

"In western Somaliland, this group was prominently represented in the 99 division of the Somali National Movement which was founded in Gabiley with the majority of the divisions troops consisting of militia fighters hailing from the Jibril Abokor section of the Sa'ad Muuse sub-clan of the Habar Awal that dominates the Gabiley region. The 99 division was Commanded by General Mohamed Hasan Abdullahi (Jidhif) of the Jibril Abokor who successfully conquered Awdal region and completely erased the presence of Somali National Army forces within Gabiley and Awdal and forced the local Gadabursi inhabitants of Awdal to pledge loyalty to Somaliland. As commander of the 99 division, General Mohamed Hasan Abdullahi (Jidhif) also established a Somali National Movement military base in Zeila where the SNM occupied the Awdal region for 4 years and successfully defeated attempts by USF militia forces loyal to Djibouti who tried to take advantage of the fall of Siad Barre's Military Junta in 1991 and annex the city of Zeila."

Source: Who cares about Somalis page. 17.

For more read below how Jibril occupied a territory for four years yet disputed by Issa and Gadabursi.

We Jibril Abokor were known to be the greatest raiders in Somaliland. We had the best Cavalry men in the north.

 

[Cumar]

Actually bro, hold back a bit when criticising the paternal lineage of Isaaqs as you share a relatively recent paternal ancestor with large sections of them. Some are your Blood bro.

I ain't Ciise by the way.



It ain't three, your own source does not even make that claim bro. Only Wardik, according to that one source, are Habar Jeclo.

More importantly, why are you ignoring the fact that 'Soo Raac' clearly identifies one as not being a blood member of the clan. Thus, the authenticity of the clan's lineage is not in doubt. Allow that shit man!

Secondly, I am not making a point about Dir at all, I am making a point about Ciise Madoobe only in this instance.

Which sections of Isaaq do you consider your blood? I'm guessing you mean Garhajis?

 

[.279]

Actually bro, hold back a bit when criticising the paternal lineage of Isaaqs as you share a relatively recent paternal ancestor with large sections of them. Some are your Blood bro.

I ain't Ciise by the way.



It ain't three, your own source does not even make that claim bro. Only Wardik, according to that one source, are Habar Jeclo.

More importantly, why are you ignoring the fact that 'Soo Raac' clearly identifies one as not being a blood member of the clan. Thus, the authenticity of the clan's lineage is not in doubt. Allow that shit man!

Secondly, I am not making a point about Dir at all, I am making a point about only Ciise Madoobe in this instance.

I know ur samroon i think.

And garaxajis are the only ones who are dir as far as i know.

 

[xabashi]

By the way the new spokesperson for the Gov of Ethiopia is an Ethio-Somali. He is one of the new appointed officials by PM Abiy Ahmed.

 

[Factz]

I know ur samroon i think.

And garaxajis are the only ones who are dir as far as i know.

Garxajis is are Isaaq not Dir. Stop claiming other clans you pathetic langaab!

 

[Cumar]

Garxajis is are Isaaq not Dir. Stop claiming other clans you pathetic langaab!

He is probably talking about their Halpogroup T DNA results.

 

[.279]

Garxajis is are Isaaq not Dir. Stop claiming other clans you pathetic langaab!

Dna tests say otherwise. Debate science.

 

[anonimo]

Which sections are your blood? I'm guessing you mean Garhajis?

Not only Garxajis belong to Y16897 lineage among Isaaqs. Cannot be asked to rehash previous debates. Google Y16897 Haplogroup T Isaaq etc or check with the Habar Awal Geek called Almagest on Anthrogenica, he will be able to shed light on how closely related the Ciise tested in Djibouti and Isaaqs that are Y16897 are.

 

[Factz]

He is probably talking about their Halpogroup T DNA results.

That doesn't prove they're Dir either. Many Somalis share similar blood which proves nothing. At the end of the day, Garxajis are are Habar magaadle Isaaq and these langaab Dirs better f*ck off

 

[anonimo]

Are you dumb? Jibril Abokor the largest sub clan of SM use to raid Issa often and defeat them on the coast. Heck, Jibril Abokor forced Issa to submit tribute after they captured Zeila long ago.

I mean Jibril Abokor colonized Awdal and defeated Gadabursi militia stooges of Siad Barre and Issa militia group that were loyal to Djibouti and tried to annex Zeila to Djibouti and were also defeated by Jibril Abokor militia group called 99 division which is the largest SNM branch in western Somaliland.

"In western Somaliland, this group was prominently represented in the 99 division of the Somali National Movement which was founded in Gabiley with the majority of the divisions troops consisting of militia fighters hailing from the Jibril Abokor section of the Sa'ad Muuse sub-clan of the Habar Awal that dominates the Gabiley region. The 99 division was Commanded by General Mohamed Hasan Abdullahi (Jidhif) of the Jibril Abokor who successfully conquered Awdal region and completely erased the presence of Somali National Army forces within Gabiley and Awdal and forced the local Gadabursi inhabitants of Awdal to pledge loyalty to Somaliland. As commander of the 99 division, General Mohamed Hasan Abdullahi (Jidhif) also established a Somali National Movement military base in Zeila where the SNM occupied the Awdal region for 4 years and successfully defeated attempts by USF militia forces loyal to Djibouti who tried to take advantage of the fall of Siad Barre's Military Junta in 1991 and annex the city of Zeila."

Source: Who cares about Somalis page. 17.

For more read below how Jibril occupied a territory for four years yet disputed by Issa and Gadabursi.

We Jibril Abokor were known to be the greatest raiders in Somaliland. We had the best Cavalry men in the north.

Do you think you faced the might of the Ciise?

They were putting down the Afar Rebellion in Djibouti at that time and were also fighting the Oromo in Dire Dawa in the early 90's. Moreover they were also not at peace with the Samaroon and were actually siding with the SNM against them in the late 80's.

As things stand, do you think any Somali clan has the military hardware that the Ciise possess? Kid, Soviet era Technicals are no match for the modern weaponry of the Ciise.

 

[Cumar]

Not only Garxajis belong to Y16897 lineage among Isaaqs. Cannot be asked to rehash previous debates. Google Y16897 Haplogroup T Isaaq etc or check with the Habar Awal Geek called Almagest on Anthrogenica, he will be able to shed light on how closely related the Ciise tested in Djibouti and Isaaqs that are Y16897 are.

Interesting. Has the full Y test been done? That is the only way to definitely say for sure if Garhajis and Dir are closely related as you say they are.

Habar Awal are EV32, I am confident on that. All the Isaaq samples in Djibouti were Habar Awal and all came back negative for Halpogroup T.

 

[.279]

Do you think you faced the might of the Ciise?

Moreover they were also not at peace with the Samaroon and were actually siding with the SNM against them in the late 80's.

Shameful