Ethno genesis of the Somali people

[The alchemist]

I don't think what Somalis have is the same Omotic-related forager ancestry.

The purple represents what is highest in Aari Blacksmiths (people who, in large parts, descend from the HG), and Somalis on Admixture runs don't pick up the same signature. There is no doubt we have related ancestry, but of a different kind. In that respect, unless you add some level of hypothetical ancient hunter-gatherer diversity within Ethiopia, then I think perhaps the Buur Heybe types were the ones we absorbed.

 

[Apollo]

I don't think what Somalis have is the same Omotic-related forager ancestry.
View attachment 217162
The purple represents what is highest in Aari Blacksmiths (people who, in large parts, descend from the HG), and Somalis on Admixture runs don't pick up the same signature. There is no doubt we have related ancestry, but of a different kind. In that respect, unless you add some level of hypothetical ancient hunter-gatherer diversity within Ethiopia, then I think perhaps the Buur Heybe types were the ones we absorbed.

The Kenyan HGs are barely similar to Ethiopian HGs. The Hadza are also quite different from Kenyan LSA HGs. The Mbuti are extremely different from all the aforementioned as well. HGs tend to have huge genetic diversity compared to agricultural populations.

Look at this Somali HG maternal lineage for instance, split over 18,000 years from Ethiopian HGs:

L3a2a MTree

www.yfull.com

However, it was also discovered in one Kenyan Cushitic pastoralist, nevertheless this sample was a very late one and no date was given. It could have been a linguistic Somaloid who moved from South Somalia to the Rendille territory (the burial site was Kokurmatakore). Ironically also more Natufian shifted than most Somalis today, given some credence to my early Somaloid autosomal hypothesis I posted earlier.

 

[The alchemist]

The Kenyan HGs are barely similar to Ethiopian HGs. The Hadza are also quite different from Kenyan LSA HGs. The Mbuti are extremely different from all the aforementioned as well. HGs tend to have huge genetic diversity compared to agricultural populations.

Look at this Somali HG maternal lineage for instance, split over 18,000 years from Ethiopian HGs:

L3a2a MTree

www.yfull.com

However, it was also discovered in one Kenyan Cushitic pastoralist, nevertheless this sample was a very late one and no date was given. It could have been a linguistic Somaloid who moved from South Somalia to the Rendille territory (the burial site was Kokurmatakore). Ironically also more Natufian shifted than most Somalis today, given some credence to my early Somaloid autosomal hypothesis I posted earlier.

Interesting that you mentioned 18,000 years. HGs in the last ~20kya became more locally inclined and stopped moving the wide distances they used to before that. With that, you get a diverse set of stone-age material culture and genetic structures, as you can see in the archeological record.

An abstract from Lipson et al. 2022:

Multiple lines of genetic and archaeological evidence suggest that there were major demographic changes in the terminal Late Pleistocene epoch and early Holocene epoch of sub-Saharan Africa1,2,3,4. Inferences about this period are challenging to make because demographic shifts in the past 5,000 years have obscured the structures of more ancient populations3,5. Here we present genome-wide ancient DNA data for six individuals from eastern and south-central Africa spanning the past approximately 18,000 years (doubling the time depth of sub-Saharan African ancient DNA), increase the data quality for 15 previously published ancient individuals and analyse these alongside data from 13 other published ancient individuals. The ancestry of the individuals in our study area can be modelled as a geographically structured mixture of three highly divergent source populations, probably reflecting Pleistocene interactions around 80–20 thousand years ago, including deeply diverged eastern and southern African lineages, plus a previously unappreciated ubiquitous distribution of ancestry that occurs in highest proportion today in central African rainforest hunter-gatherers. Once established, this structure remained highly stable, with limited long-range gene flow. These results provide a new line of genetic evidence in support of hypotheses that have emerged from archaeological analyses but remain contested, suggesting increasing regionalization at the end of the Pleistocene epoch.

You should read that paper. It sets good reference literature if those Somali HGs ever get published.

 

[Apollo]

@The alchemist

One more thing on Somali HG lineages, this one is really weird, a Somali HG lineage that is tied to Malagasies in the last 8,100 years (relatively close).

L3a-a1 MTree

www.yfull.com

Either Malagasies dropped by the lower Jubba coast and slightly admixed with Somaloids there or that Somali sample could be Swahili coast region admixed Somali. Would be interesting if it is the former.

Bananas apparently spread with the Malagasy to Africa.

 

[Shimbiris]

I don't think what Somalis have is the same Omotic-related forager ancestry.
View attachment 217162
The purple represents what is highest in Aari Blacksmiths (people who, in large parts, descend from the HG), and Somalis on Admixture runs don't pick up the same signature. There is no doubt we have related ancestry, but of a different kind. In that respect, unless you add some level of hypothetical ancient hunter-gatherer diversity within Ethiopia, then I think perhaps the Buur Heybe types were the ones we absorbed.

I don't take ADMIXTURE runs seriously anymore, walaal. They were very useful once upon a time and it is truly impressive how many ancient patterns they unwittingly caught but they're too fooled by drift, especially with very drifted groups like Somalis and Arabians. There are so many components we know for a fact groups have that ADMIX made us think they didn't like ANE in Arabians, for example. Somalis have it, I would say. It just took more fine-tuned methods like formal stats or G25 to pull it out.

 

[Idilinaa]

Controversial take, but Hawiyes are most likely a population similar to North-Central Somalis who expanded to the South like Marehans, but earlier.

We need more ancient genomes from Somaliweyn as I think Kenyan and Ethiopian ancient genomes can be misleading about the population history of Somaliweyn. The Marsabit/NFD arid zone was a population barrier and the Ethiopian highlands were also one.

It does look that way doesn't it. I don't think it's controversial because same already say that there were prior Somali groups before they arrive in the area.

I also noticed that bulk of the earlier Hawiye especially in some places between the rivers might have just been included into the Raxanweyn clan social structure for example the way that Huber has now a part of Geledi and many other clans

 

[The alchemist]

I don't take ADMIXTURE runs seriously anymore, walaal. They were very useful once upon a time and it is truly impressive how many ancient patterns they unwittingly caught but they're too fooled by drift, especially with very drifted groups like Somalis and Arabians. There are so many components we know for a fact groups have that ADMIX made us think they didn't like ANE in Arabians, for example. Somalis have it, I would say. It just took more fine-tuned methods like formal stats or G25 to pull it out.

I fully agree with you on this. There is a level of tentative, hypothetical unsupervised elements to it. Being wise of the inherent speculative range of wider error potential for conceptual component assignments, one can find value in patterns. You know there can be a systematic way in which something is false which can inform a lot. All in all, this is situational and not the thing I base my ideas around, basically an additive convenience.

My ideas are simple. I think ETH_4500BP approximates the HG signature for Ethiopians in the matter of distance than for Somalis.

 

[Shimbiris]

I fully agree with you on this. There is a level of tentative, hypothetical unsupervised elements to it. Being wise of the inherent speculative range of wider error potential for conceptual component assignments, one can find value in patterns. You know there can be a systematic way in which something is false which can inform a lot. All in all, this is situational and not the thing I base my ideas around, basically an additive convenience.

My ideas are simple. I think ETH_4500BP approximates the HG signature for Ethiopians in the matter of distance than for Somalis.

See. How do you go from writing this to "Yo, the shorty in your pfp is gorgeous." you a confusing nigga.

 

[The alchemist]

To give context for coordination, a better fit for Somalis should be close to Mota. I doubt the Somali forager DNA is completely different, like Hadza or Kakapel. That's way too far, IMO.

 

[The alchemist]

See. How do you go from writing this to "Yo, the shorty in your pfp is gorgeous." you a confusing nigga.

Formal =//= informal.

There is not a clear-cut line. But you should understand, nigga. Do you talk similar to your set of friends like you do in a business meeting or in any professional setting? C'mon

 

[Shimbiris]

Formal =//= informal.

There is not a clear-cut line. But you should understand, nigga. Do you talk similar to your set of friends like you do in a business meeting or in any professional setting? C'mon

I'm messing with you, abowe. But it is jolting to see you write like that then "SHORTY!" HAHAHAHA.

 

[The alchemist]

I'm messing with you, abowe. But it is jolting to see you write like that then "SHORTY!" HAHAHAHA.

It's common American slang. You're overreacting, sxb. kkk

 

[Shimbiris]

It's common American slang. You're overreacting, sxb. kkk

Always thought it was clever slang. You know, since women are on average shorter than dudes. Shorties. Clever Amerikaan.

 

[Hamzza]

The mention of the ethnic name is just 500-600 years old. Though, if I'm not mistaken, that Abyssinian poem doesn't call us Somalis but "Simur"

The first and oldest mention of the name of the Somali in Ethiopian documents is contained, as is known, in the epinicius of the negus Yeshaq, who reigned from 1414 to 1429.

-Sumālē yingar
- Şemur yingar​

 

[Angelina]

The Chinese accounts are a less reliable.
There are two main accounts. One is from the 9th century and talks about a land called PO PA LI They mention the natives as being raided by Arab slave traders. While this may have happened very occasionally there's no mention in Arab sources to a huge enslavement of barbar(somali). The Chinese also say po pa li enslaved each other which is not a tradition of somalis. They say the natives were cattle herders without mentioning sheep and camels and they also talk about exotic animals such as elephants. Keep in mind this is supposed to be the area around Berbera, it's unlikely they had elephants and it's weird camels were not mentioned. The Chinese sources even speak about natives drinking milk mixed with blood which is a Nilotic custom still practices by Masai. Somali were never mentioned as blood drinkers, if this was true you would expect Arabs mentioning at least a few somalis still practicing this tradition in the early stages of Islamization.
The second account is about PI PA LO around year 1000 and fits better with Somalia than the earlier account. In this account the Chinese say natives of PI PA LO were herders of camels and sheep, worshiped a Sky god (waaq maybe?) And Had lot's of incense and myrrh.
Maybe the First account refers to Kenya or southern Somalia, the second one fits better northern somalia

Didn't Burton mention an Ugaas drinking blood? There was also a Somali ritual called Zaar (warding off spirits) in which participants drink blood. Some Somalis were still doing it as late as the early 20th century.

 

[Angelina]

Controversial take, but Hawiyes are most likely a population similar to North-Central Somalis who expanded to the South like Marehans, but earlier.

We need more ancient genomes from Somaliweyn as I think Kenyan and Ethiopian ancient genomes can be misleading about the population history of Somaliweyn. The Marsabit/NFD arid zone was a population barrier and the Ethiopian highlands were also one.

Why is it a controversial take? I thought that Hawiyes like every other Max tiri originated from the North?

 

[Ghengis Kaarhis]

@Shadow-san

Somali as in the Maxaa group is about 1,750-1,500 years old.

Somali as in all the other subgroups including Maay is about 3,000-2,500 years old.

Stop lying we are oldest and most ancient of all times, all other groups are our descendants!

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

Didn't Burton mention an Ugaas drinking blood? There was also a Somali ritual called Zaar (warding off spirits) in which participants drink blood. Some Somalis were still doing it as late as the early 20th century.

No he didn't

 

[Angelina]

No he didn't

Nah, he definitely did. I need to find it and post it. I remember reading it and doing a double take and thinking uff shaydaan waaxiid.

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

Nah, he definitely did. I need to find it and post it. I remember reading it and doing a double take and thinking uff shaydaan waaxiid.

If it was an Ugaas then it's probably an Ciise or Samarone cause us Isaaqs use Suldaan or Garaad as chieftain titles