Factions during 1991+, Who were they and what were their goals.

[JamalFarah]

That's not true. After Ethiopia imprisoned AY majority of SSDF laid down their arms and become loyal Afweynists using a combination of coercion and intimidation to woe them in. Bosasso Port was his gift for Majerteen capitulation thought the port was half finished when his government fell in 1991.


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That's why I always laugh at the likes of @DR OSMAN reminiscing about his sell out family. Or the clueless Gen Z who spam Mogadishu downtown vintage photos in 1975 depiction of advanced Somalia. Osman's own inadeer the Gaal Ayan Xersi book "infidel" had many juicy scripts about her upbringing in Afweyne's Somalia and discrimination her people went through. Very bleak illustrations of the day to day life in Somalia's "Golden Age" Detoriating living standards, long lines for food rations, massive human right violations and open institutional form of qabyaalad in all sectors of the government. When it came for SSDF she retold their long struggle untill they eventually surrendered and joined Siad Barre campaign in Somaliland.

View attachment 328652

You are not wrong, but her question focused on the actions of the SSDF specifically. Those from the SSDF who accepted amnesty and later engaged in mass killings in the north did so under the banner of the Barre regime/SNA, much like many of the .5s that were involved. The SSDF, like other clan militias, had clashes and retaliatory killings. I am aware of a massacre in Dollo against the Marehan that the SSDF committed, but information on it is limited.
Their biggest crime would be surrendering and some members accepting amnesty, I do however understand the choice for the former. Barre besides imprisoning AY massacred village in the area to get them to surrender.

 

[wonyluvr]

That's why I always laugh at the likes of @DR OSMAN reminiscing about his sell out family.

What do you mean by this

 

[Yazi]

What do you mean by this

His father was Barre's loyal lapdog, he always worships Afweyne and praises his government like Ayan Xersi's aunt in her book lol.

 

[Yazi]

Everything I say is corroborated by sources. If your counter argument is "lol its lie", it falls flat. Besides, you keep assuming my tribe as to discredit any argument that goes against your tribalist world view, grow up each one of these groups have done some awful stuff.

Fact is, Morgan and his marauding band went on and raped and killed all over Bay and Bakool to such an extent that it cause the famine.

Anyone feeling compelled to "protect" what happened during the 90s by their kinsmen needs to reevaluate their moral compass.

You could make the argument SSDF had no charter or intentions to attack Isaaq, they were forced into it by Barre.

 

[wonyluvr]

His father was Barre's loyal lapdog, he always worships Afweyne and praises his government like Ayan Xersi's aunt in her book lol.

HIS ACTUAL FATHER

 

[Yazi]

Everything I say is corroborated by sources. If your counter argument is "lol its lie", it falls flat. Besides, you keep assuming my tribe as to discredit any argument that goes against your tribalist world view, grow up each one of these groups have done some awful stuff.

Fact is, Morgan and his marauding band went on and raped and killed all over Bay and Bakool to such an extent that it cause the famine.

Anyone feeling compelled to "protect" what happened during the 90s by their kinsmen needs to reevaluate their moral compass.

The greatest misleading narrative perpetuated by Darood diaspora, particularly loyal Afweynist the likes of Osman and Shepard is that Hawiye culture is pre disposed to Mooryanimo when it's the default Somali reaction to prosecution. Notice they always bring up 1991 and digging up telephone lines to depict Hawiye as savages but keep their mouth shut of the Darood-led Somali army mass massacres throughout Somalia.

Mind you, the above is not the actions of a rag tag decentralized rebel group. This is Somali National Army, a centralized military force which is supposedly ran by a sovereign government that legally accountable by the public. They Did everything from burning civilian nomads to stealing door frames/windows/ rooftops to sell it back to it's original owners. This level of unadulterated Mooryanimo is rarely ever discussed or aknowledged by Afweyne orphans but they are sure fixated on telephone lines USC stole in 91.

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

@Yazi No ones saying they were good BUt im telling u right now anything is better then the fourth world status we are in right now
You are talking like a very Hurt guy and U keep lashing out right now

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

All until the USC'ians had to ruin it and Mac sokar he couldnt even enjoy him self Because greeds #1 enemy is greed and For the past 33 years we paying the PRice and Numskulls like @Yazi Cant even tell you are so Nuts your now starting to use sources from Daily Wire Podcast Member Ayan Xirsi Every Aspect of this conversation is Cooked Somalia is Cooked..

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

So this shit started over fake news of a party that agreed to take down siad barre, suddenly supporting him.

Nope It started when Aideed was Ordered to make a coup and That absolute Doqon Got played and now you have Numskull Dufuses LIke @Yazi Defending the USC like Angels who never did anything wrong what so ever shut up ...

 

[Magan Joseph]

A common Hawiye lie to cover up mooryaan culture of USC.

The main reason why food aid was not reaching Bay & Bakool is that the USC was looting all aid coming into the port of Mogadishu. That simple.

Including airport hotel room mattresses

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

Or the clueless Gen Z who spam Mogadishu downtown vintage photos in 1975 depiction of advanced Somalia.

Now we are catching strays from the Cuqdad ridden We all know thats the only Time Somalia had Proper city planning..

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

Not funny

wdym NOT funny? IM SERIOUS

 

[wonyluvr]

wdym NOT funny? IM SERIOUS

I’m taking to Magan Joesph he thinks he’s slick I’m not trying to get into any back and forth with him so I deleted the comment

 

[Magan Joseph]

@Thegoodshepherd
“Leaving no trace of modernity or memory of statehood” I understand looting but why throw away books? Did they have an issue with people learning something?

 

[Magan Joseph]

All until the USC'ians had to ruin it and Mac sokar he couldnt even enjoy him self Because greeds #1 enemy is greed and For the past 33 years we paying the PRice and Numskulls like @Yazi Cant even tell you are so Nuts your now starting to use sources from Daily Wire Podcast Member Ayan Xirsi Every Aspect of this conversation is Cooked Somalia is Cooked..

 

[attash]

Everything I say is corroborated by sources. If your counter argument is "lol its lie", it falls flat. Besides, you keep assuming my tribe as to discredit any argument that goes against your tribalist world view, grow up each one of these groups have done some awful stuff.

Fact is, Morgan and his marauding band went on and raped and killed all over Bay and Bakool to such an extent that it cause the famine.

Anyone feeling compelled to "protect" what happened during the 90s by their kinsmen needs to reevaluate their moral compass.

Not all sources are equal. The sources you are using are secondary sources written years after these events occurred. If we look at the news articles written in the early '90s, we will see most of them blaming Aidid for the famine, or at least saying that he greatly contributed.

The famine in the riverine areas was not caused by Barre's occupation since these areas were already experiencing famine conditions while Aidid was in control (before Morgan's forces marched in):

Other towns that were occupied by the USC such as Merca were said to have been dealing with famine:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1992/10/30/warlords-feed-famine/1f307c20-7276-42bc-b6f2-cdddb4ff1657/

Both Morgan and Aidid were responsible for the destruction of farmland that triggered the famine (along with the drought that was already there), however the food aid was mostly looted by the USC who were in control of the ports. Some estimates say as much as 80% of the aid was looted.

We have another source in 1993 outright blaming Aidid as the main contributor to the famine:

From Peacekeeping to Peace Enforcement - MERIP

The US decision to intervene in Somalia in December 1992 came well after the two-year-old crisis had finally hit the headlines. The power vacuum that followed the flight of Siad Barre from Mogadishu in January 1991, and the subsequent civil war in the capital, particularly the fighting between...

merip.org

So saying that Barre & Morgan "caused" the famine is very inaccurate, as is laying blame for the civil war primarily on one faction.

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

Fact is, Morgan and his marauding band went on and raped and killed all over Bay and Bakool to such an extent that it cause the famine.

Anyone feeling compelled to "protect" what happened during the 90s by their kinsmen needs to reevaluate their moral compass.

Anyone can find out for themselves the answers to the following questions:

1. What clan militia held Baidoa in 1992?
2. What clan militia held the Mogadishu-Baidoa road in 1992?
3. What clan militia held the port of Mogadishu in 1992?
4. How much food aid was carried by ships unable to dock at Mogadishu port due to USC shelling them if they tried to dock?

The answers to questions 1-3 is USC. The answer to question 4 is tens of thousands of tons.

 

[geeljre49]

Not all sources are equal. The sources you are using are secondary sources written years after these events occurred. If we look at the news articles written in the early '90s, we will see most of them blaming Aidid for the famine, or at least saying that he greatly contributed.

The famine in the riverine areas was not caused by Barre's occupation since these areas were already experiencing famine conditions while Aidid was in control (before Morgan's forces marched in):

View attachment 328756

Other towns that were occupied by the USC such as Merca were said to have been dealing with famine:

View attachment 328761

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1992/10/30/warlords-feed-famine/1f307c20-7276-42bc-b6f2-cdddb4ff1657/

Both Morgan and Aidid were responsible for the destruction of farmland that triggered the famine (along with the drought that was already there), however the food aid was mostly looted by the USC who were in control of the ports. Some estimates say as much as 80% of the aid was looted.

We have another source in 1993 outright blaming Aidid as the main contributor to the famine:

View attachment 328763

From Peacekeeping to Peace Enforcement - MERIP

The US decision to intervene in Somalia in December 1992 came well after the two-year-old crisis had finally hit the headlines. The power vacuum that followed the flight of Siad Barre from Mogadishu in January 1991, and the subsequent civil war in the capital, particularly the fighting between...

merip.org

So saying that Barre & Morgan "caused" the famine is very inaccurate, as is laying blame for the civil war primarily on one faction.

Anyone can find out for themselves the answers to the following questions:

1. What clan militia held Baidoa in 1992?
2. What clan militia held the Mogadishu-Baidoa road in 1992?
3. What clan militia held the port of Mogadishu in 1992?
4. How much food aid was carried by ships unable to dock at Mogadishu port due to USC shelling them if they tried to dock?

The answers to questions 1-3 is USC. The answer to question 4 is tens of thousands of tons.

Displaced D&M directly saying it was General Morgan and his men who caused the famine.

 

[attash]

Displaced D&M directly saying it was General Morgan and his men who caused the famine.

Yes, this is why I said that is was both Morgan AND Aidid who were responsible for triggering the famine. You will have some D&M who were victims of Morgan saying it was him who stole from them, and you will have reports of towns under Aidid's control experiencing hundreds of deaths daily because those are the victims of Aidid.

I was mainly pushing back against @JamalFarah's claim that one faction was mostly responsible, when it was multiple factions who caused this.

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

I’m taking to Magan Joesph he thinks he’s slick I’m not trying to get into any back and forth with him so I deleted the comment

? Why? I mean Dont get me wrong I respect all my Somalis but this topic I brought up seems to light a fire inside them Making them all go gorilla Its funny how these USCians are happy they controlled some PARTS of muqdisho and then they looted and destroyed that part man Muqdisho is a failed cuase at this point We need a new capital properly planned